[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't understand then what you mean about the womens currently being neutral? Because Caitlyn is post-op and there's the traditional women's sign next to the door.

Yes Caitlyn is an actual transsexual and is post op. Most people who 'identify' as transwomen though are not 'transsexual' or 'post-op' though. And they will take Caitylns photo to mean they are also welcome. Which means its gender neutral

Is my problem.

The traditional womans sign annoys me tbh. Should just be labelled male and female. The dress thing has always annoyed me. Putting on a dress does not make anyone a woman, and not wearing a dress doesn't make one not a woman. I know I overthink that though. Just something thats always pissed me off (being 'non-binary' myself)

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

I find the mens/disabled combo more offensive tbh (although i do find it quite tasteless). Why are disabled women being told to go in the mens?

Maybe that side of the loos is split in two inside?

I've come across that before.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Even in that case though, a disabled loo should be separate as...well able bodied people aren't meant to use disabled loos.

I do not understand why they didn't just make one gender neutral, and the other disabled, if they are going to let men into the womens anyway (which I do agree with, with post-op trans people only) Would make much more sense

Depends. If they only have two single toilets to be used by customers then one of them is adapted for disabled use then it has to be shared.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

which is why, if they are making the loos gender neutral, they should have had the disabled one separate.

Also a man is more likely to be comfortable going into the womens loos than vice versa. Most women are nervous in isolated situations with strange men. Hell even most transmen I have read about do not want to use the mens loos for fear of being attacked. I am not a man so don't know this for sure, but according to male friends its not scary to go into a place full of women, though apparently it would maybe be embarrassing.

But yeah, even with all of that said, disabled loos should always be separate if there is the option to do that. Which there clearly is in this case. Change the door sign to disabled only. And allow the men and women in the womens together, which is what they are doing anyway.

I don't think it makes a difference though? You've still got the disabled toilet open to both sexes?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if you cut a glory hole in her mouth and did what the hole was intended for then i guess people would be like "ew gross"

Bit high up for a hole. Are you gonna use a step ladder?

[Greg!]

I feel like people who are offended by it don't even know what exactly they're offended by, they're just jumping on the bandwagon

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I don't think it makes a difference though? You've still got the disabled toilet open to both sexes?

Disabled toilets are always open to both sexes though

I don't think ablebodied people and disabled people should be sharing loos. Mainly as...disabled people (in general) are less able to wait. And as disabled people are relatively rare, its unlikely that there is going to be a situation where a disabled person has to wait for the loo, IF only disabled people use it

Does that make sense? Not sure I am explaining myself well at all.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Disabled toilets are always open to both sexes though

I don't think ablebodied people and disabled people should be sharing loos. Mainly as...disabled people (in general) are less able to wait. And as disabled people are relatively rare, its unlikely that there is going to be a situation where a disabled person has to wait for the loo, IF only disabled people use it

Does that make sense? Not sure I am explaining myself well at all.

Oh I thought your issue was disabled women having to share with men when disabled loos are almost always unisex anyway.

It might be that the one door leads to two doors inside. I've come across that before.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Oh I thought your issue was disabled women having to share with men when disabled loos are almost always unisex anyway.

It might be that the one door leads to two doors inside. I've come across that before.

Well to start with my issue was with disabled women having to go into the able bodied mens loo.

Then became disabled people in general sharing their (fought for) spaces with able bodied people.

Then just a bit of rage that it clearly had not been thought through in general.

Then the realization that it HAS been thought through and was just a publicity stunt to start with

A range of emotions felt here by me

[MTVN]

Feel like there has been some good discussion over toilet layout in this thread

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well to start with my issue was with disabled women having to go into the able bodied mens loo.

Then became disabled people in general sharing their (fought for) spaces with able bodied people.

Then just a bit of rage that it clearly had not been thought through in general.

Then the realization that it HAS been thought through and was just a publicity stunt to start with

A range of emotions felt here by me

I don't think the location of the disabled toilets was the attention they were going for though.

The silly sods should've put Caitlin's picture on the disabled toilet if they really wanted the internet to explode.

[James]

Isn't the point of the pictures to say 'we're okay with people who have had sex changes using the female toilet'... because there is some controversy in America about that just now.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by James

Isn't the point of the pictures to say 'we're okay with people who have had sex changes using the female toilet'... because there is some controversy in America about that just now.

Yes thats the point. So its weird that its being classed as transphobic. Mind you, pretty much everything is classed as transphobic right now

Have seen so many say its transphobic. Have seen many others saying about the disabled loo being unfair. And then some saying that womens loos should be female only, and the same for the mens (a view I do agree with, but not for post-op transsexuals. And oddly enough, transmen don't seem to want into mens loos for some reason...) They wanted publicity, they got it. Just for the wrong reasons it seems

[Vicky.]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/alle...caitlyn-jenner

More on this, explaining why its apparently transphobic. From what I can make of the ridiculous arguments, its because 'Caitlyn' was always a woman and has never ever been a man. Madness

Includes a reply from the restaurant too.

Also a long twitter thread about it

https://twitter.com/DomDiFurio/statu...42834428239878

This has now been posted by 3 of my friends on FB. Very viral

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I don't think it's offensive, but I don't think it's funny either.

.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/alle...caitlyn-jenner

More on this, explaining why its apparently transphobic. From what I can make of the ridiculous arguments, its because 'Caitlyn' was always a woman and has never ever been a man. Madness

Includes a reply from the restaurant too.

Also a long twitter thread about it

https://twitter.com/DomDiFurio/statu...42834428239878

This has now been posted by 3 of my friends on FB. Very viral

It's ridiculous because I doubt even Caitlyn herself would agree with that assessment.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's ridiculous because I doubt even Caitlyn herself would agree with that assessment.

Well exactly. Caitlyn accepts she is male. And they want to look like a woman, fair enough. That is very different from actually being a female and always having been one. Its just such a stupid argument.