[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I can well believe it.I didn’t used to go much to the clubs with the over forties women.I did cop off with a 35 y/o though when i was around 17.She would flirt regularly with me and one night she pounced.I didn’t really fight her off if i’m honest.

35 is still youngish though, this woman was 2 years older than his mum, and had a son the same age as us! All kinds of wrong. I thought he was joking when he told me he had hooked up with her at first... But no.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

35 is still youngish though, this woman was 2 years older than his mum, and had a son the same age as us! All kinds of wrong. I thought he was joking when he told me he had hooked up with her at first... But no.

Yeah wouldn’t fancy blowing the cobwebs off that at 17.

If it was reversed and a bloke was that age it’d somehow be seen as worse too.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

We started hitting the local pub at 16 and I swear the worst for it were women in their late 40s / early 50s! We thought it was all a good laugh but it's actually so dodgy. Plus one of my friends started a 6 month fling with a 48 year old when he was 17 . And picked it up again in his early 20s when she was like 53 ...

Plenty of men that age, especially those with money, with women 30+ years younger; sometimes having kids. That is equally as dodgy and stomach churning.

[user104658]

True though as Nm says, it's usually seen as worse somehow (the man considered a predator, perhaps fairly). In that case though I would say the older woman was a bit of a predator, and did take advantage of him, though to this day I doubt he would admit that.

[Kizzy]

Look how the conversation has turned, woman mentions harassment man suggests it works both ways and then crows about exploits with milf... you couldn't make it up :/

[DemolitionRed]

There's a bloke who's got a yacht on our marina who's in his 70's and looks like a fat old Santa. His wife is probably late 20s, very petite, well groomed and a real head turner. They have a three year old daughter. He's a millionaire and they have a house (I'm told its a mansion) out near Guildford.

Sounds sickening doesn't it? I used to think so until one night, after a few beers, he told me that he's well aware she's using him for his money but that's okay because she's well aware he's using her for her youthful looks. "she makes me feel young and I make her feel special and we are both very comfortable knowing the truths of why we are together".

Whilst It may not conform to what we deem to be a healthy relationship, its still an honest one.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There's a bloke who's got a yacht on our marina who's in his 70's and looks like a fat old Santa. His wife is probably late 20s, very petite, well groomed and a real head turner. They have a three year old daughter. He's a millionaire and they have a house (I'm told its a mansion) out near Guildford.

Sounds sickening doesn't it? I used to think so until one night, after a few beers, he told me that he's well aware she's using him for his money but that's okay because she's well aware he's using her for her youthful looks. "she makes me feel young and I make her feel special and we are both very comfortable knowing the truths of why we are together".

Whilst It may not conform to what we deem to be a healthy relationship, its still an honest one.

Yes, it's the honesty that counts.
Sounds like they are both happy with the situation.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Look how the conversation has turned, woman mentions harassment man suggests it works both ways and then crows about exploits with milf... you couldn't make it up :/

Well you seem to have managed to?

[user104658]

But frankly Kizzy, if you don't want an open discussion, want it the way you want it, and want to crow mantras and buzzwords then perhaps consider starting a blog? Plenty of people put there happy to buy the **** you're peddling and you don't even have to enable comments .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

But frankly Kizzy, if you don't want an open discussion, want it the way you want it, and want to crow mantras and buzzwords then perhaps consider starting a blog? Plenty of people put there happy to buy the **** you're peddling and you don't even have to enable comments .

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Look how the conversation has turned, woman mentions harassment man suggests it works both ways and then crows about exploits with milf... you couldn't make it up :/

No,Just pointing out that this current narrative that seems to have come about of men being these over sexed predators and women are all sweet innocent victims is not the case.Men get preyed on by older women,‘catcalled’,assaulted and harrassed too.You just don’t hear about it as much or hardly ever.
That certainly doesn’t make it right for men to do it either and i can understand that women will feel more fear due to men generally being physically stronger but it’s not right for men OR women to do it.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

No,Just pointing out that this current narrative that seems to have come about of men being these over sexed predators and women are all sweet innocent victims is not the case.Men get preyed on by older women,‘catcalled’,assaulted and harrassed too.You just don’t hear about it as much or hardly ever.
That certainly doesn’t make it right for men to do it either and i can understand that women will feel more fear due to men generally being physically stronger but it’s not right for men OR women to do it.

I agree...I'm all for sexual liberation and am very much in the "what makes you happy" camp as long as it it legal and moral for both sexes. As DR said people don't always know the dynamics od relationships and what works for people. Both men and women can be predatory and pervy..yes men are physically stronger in the most part but there are exceptions to every rule. Women are just as likely to to be bastards as men are....physically, sexually and emotionally. As a woman who wants equality I am well aware of the behaviours women can display that can be construed as as predatory as men.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

No,Just pointing out that this current narrative that seems to have come about of men being these over sexed predators and women are all sweet innocent victims is not the case.Men get preyed on by older women,‘catcalled’,assaulted and harrassed too.You just don’t hear about it as much or hardly ever.
That certainly doesn’t make it right for men to do it either and i can understand that women will feel more fear due to men generally being physically stronger but it’s not right for men OR women to do it.

[jaxie]

With regards to the older women scenario, I'm not going to argue that there aren't predatory women but there was a woman on the estate where I grew up who had kids older than me and who was known as the local bike. Except if you look a bit more closely you might say she was as much a victim as anyone. She liked a lot of sex and she was lonely. Men came in and out of her life and used her. There were beatings and broken relationships all over the drama of her life. I remember when I was around fifteen she dated a guy of eighteen for a while. It was pretty clear he was using her for easy sex while she became emotionally involved. Was she really the predator? I'm not convinced she was.

[DemolitionRed]

We went to a party last year and a woman, who was a good 15 years younger than me was enamored with my husband. He's one of these guys who isn't even aware when he's been chatted up and I'm the sort of woman who sits back and enjoys the entertainment. At the end of the evening she ignored me but went up and gave him a hug and a kiss and handed him something, it was her phone number!! Fortunately for me he's not up for an opportune shag and so he took the paper it was written on and handed it to me.

I think predatory women are more likely to be young and after a rich mans money or just a man who's solvent and stable. Stability is fine, we all want it but if that stability includes knowingly coming on to a married man, then that's predatory behavior.

[Vicky.]

The perv impulse may well be 50/50, for sake of argument. But I would argue that men act on it more. Which would mean that women have better impulse control, which won't go down well either

I am not denying there are predatory women at all. But sexual assault appears to be committed more by men.

So yes, pervy women exist, women may perv 'in their heads' as much as men, but men openly perv and take action on their thoughts more often.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The perv impulse may well be 50/50, for sake of argument. But I would argue that men act on it more. Which would mean that women have better impulse control, which won't go down well either

I am not denying there are predatory women at all. But sexual assault appears to be committed more by men.

So yes, pervy women exist, women may perv 'in their heads' as much as men, but men openly perv and take action on their thoughts more often.

No appears about it. Men are by far the worst offenders, always have been. It has often been an excuse offered up by some stating they have a higher sex drive, which is debateable, but as you say impulse control is the key.

I also feel that centuries worth of social conditioning has given some men a sense of entitlement in that they think they can use and abuse women as they see fit. All complete garbage of course but many men across the world still think that because it suits and they have personality disorders.

[Kizzy]

We weren't discussing 'pervs' (or people who just look at other people) we were discussing predators.. there is a gulf of difference there.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

We weren't discussing 'pervs' (or people who just look at other people) we were discussing predators.. there is a gulf of difference there.

Well yes this is a good point actually. Discussing people who actually do sexually assault and even rape. Of which, its mostly men. By a long shot.

Amazing how saying this brings on a raft of 'not all men are like that' (we know this..it would be fairly ****ing depressing if they were!) and 'women do it too' (yes, but not anywhere near as often) every time.

When I discuss this with my husband, he doesn't take it as a...personal insult (?) that there are a lot of men who are ****ing perverted entitled arseholes. He admits it and says its a disgrace, rather than trying to deflect. Its odd how men get so defensive over this topic. 'Women do it too' is true enough, but again, nowhere near as often as men do.

[Vicky.]

Maybe hes just less defensive because his daughter who has just turned 13 has for a few years had older men touching her and being inappropriate, so he knows exactly what its like for girls/women. Twice we have had the police here, and both times they minimized it. Said they would put in a report but basically theres nothing they could do. One time they were pretty much blaming her...as she was wearing a skirt. Her ****ing school skirt. Assholes. No point reporting it it seems. He was threatened with being arrested the time they were blaming her, as he got very very angry and yes, a little aggressive but this is understandable when your daughter has experienced sexual assault and the very people who are supposed to help try to blame her, I think anyway.

I do wonder what the real figures are on sexual assault, as I am sure there are many people who don't even bother reporting it given their past experiences of reporting it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well yes this is a good point actually. Discussing people who actually do sexually assault and even rape. Of which, its mostly men. By a long shot.

Amazing how saying this brings on a raft of 'not all men are like that' (we know this..it would be fairly ****ing depressing if they were!) and 'women do it too' (yes, but not anywhere near as often) every time.

When I discuss this with my husband, he doesn't take it as a...personal insult (?) that there are a lot of men who are ****ing perverted entitled arseholes. He admits it and says its a disgrace, rather than trying to deflect. Its odd how men get so defensive over this topic. 'Women do it too' is true enough, but again, nowhere near as often as men do.

Like in this thread?... OOPS! did I just say that out loud?!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The perv impulse may well be 50/50, for sake of argument. But I would argue that men act on it more. Which would mean that women have better impulse control, which won't go down well either

If women had better impulse control then it would apply to other compulsive behaviours too, which it doesn't, so it can't be as simple as that. I would argue that it again comes back to the difference in physical strength; predatory men attack overpower, or attempt to overpower, because they feel like there's a good chance they CAN physically dominate their target. As has been discussed in this thread, it's highly unlikely that the average woman could overpower the average man and therefore it follows that there would be fewer attempts to do so.

Obviously it's impossible to say for sure because it's all hypothetical... But, I very highly suspect that if there was some sort of global mutation over night that doubled the physical strength of every female, and halved the physical strength of every male, then you would see a dramatic shift in the statistics going forward.

You also seem to have a bit of a conflict going on regarding what you believe about the male and female brain Vicky. On the one hand you insist that there is no such thing as transgenderism because there's no such thing as the "mystical, magical male or female brain" and yet you seem to believe on the other hand that there ARE fundamental differences between male and female psychology that mean men have poorer impulse control and are more likely to act on violent or predatory urges... Which strongly suggests that there IS such a thing as a male and female brain, and therefore that a male or female brain COULD be in the wrong physical body.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Like in this thread?... OOPS! did I just say that out loud?!

Well yeah, anywhere you try to discuss it this happens. Noone ever denies that some women do it to, but nowhere near on the scale that men do. Its mostly men who assault women, and also mostly men who assault other men. there is no shame in admitting this. No need to deflect and try to change the conversation...it is not a slight on all men to admit that its mainly men (NAMALT discalimer) who are so entitled and vile tbh

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

If women had better impulse control then it would apply to other compulsive behaviours too, which it doesn't, so it can't be as simple as that. I would argue that it again comes back to the difference in physical strength; predatory men attack overpower, or attempt to overpower, because they feel like there's a good chance they CAN physically dominate their target. As has been discussed in this thread, it's highly unlikely that the average woman could overpower the average man and therefore it follows that there would be fewer attempts to do so.

Obviously it's impossible to say for sure because it's all hypothetical... But, I very highly suspect that if there was some sort of global mutation over night that doubled the physical strength of every female, and halved the physical strength of every male, then you would see a dramatic shift in the statistics going forward.

You also seem to have a bit of a conflict going on regarding what you believe about the male and female brain Vicky. On the one hand you insist that there is no such thing as transgenderism because there's no such thing as the "mystical, magical male or female brain" and yet you seem to believe on the other hand that there ARE fundamental differences between male and female psychology that mean men have poorer impulse control and are more likely to act on violent or predatory urges... Which strongly suggests that there IS such a thing as a male and female brain, and therefore that a male or female brain COULD be in the wrong physical body.

I don't believe in male and female brains(and science agrees with me). IF there is a biological reason why men attack more, then its likely to be down to testosterone. Nothing to do with the brain as such, but hormones.

There was a study of transgender people who were transitioning, and the transmen who had started testosterone got more violent overall (but nowhere near as violent as biological men...just more violent than females). Which says to me testosterone must have some part in it. On the other hand, the transwomen who were lowering their testosterone levels, maintained male pattern violence. Which says that socialization is more important in it all..so hormones play a part, but its mainly socialisation. is my conclusion

Also I only said women were better at impulse control for sake of argument. As I don't actually believe that its 50/50 at all. It was you that said that. I actually said it was 'for sake of argument' too.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

Like in this thread?... OOPS! did I just say that out loud?!

It has nothing to do with defensiveness and everything to do with trying to have an open discussion free from snideness and personal prejudice... Because some people actually want to use this forum for debate and discussion, and not for blinkered campaigning and soapboxing.