[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

The nurse didn't do anything wrong here though? And noone tried to force the patient into having it done by someone she wasn't comfortable around? It was a clerical error that was corrected as soon as the patient complained, wasn't it? As far as the nurse is concerned she was just doing her job, her intent was to help the patient, I'm not sure why there is any animosity towards her.

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

When I had my cancer scare, I didn't care whether or not the doctor handling my bits was a man or woman or anything in between, I just wanted to know whether I had cancer or not. I imagine when faced with the prospect of Cancer, most people would ultimately feel the same way.

Self certification, as much as I disagree with it, won't affect the preferences of patients. If a female patient wants a woman to do the smear test then a woman will do the smear, this was just a clerical mistake that was corrected.

Your last sentence just made me laugh, we've gone from blaming immigrants and the EU costing the NHS money to blamings Trans nurses and doctors What next, Single mothers?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

When I had my cancer scare, I didn't care whether or not the doctor handling my bits was a man or woman or anything in between, I just wanted to know whether I had cancer or not. I imagine when faced with the prospect of Cancer, most people would ultimately feel the same way.

Self certification, as much as I disagree with it, won't affect the preferences of patients. If a female patient wants a woman to do the smear test then a woman will do the smear, this was just a clerical mistake that was corrected.

Your last sentence just made me laugh, we've gone from blaming immigrants and the EU costing the NHS money to blamings Trans nurses and doctors What next, Single mothers?

I have also had a cancer scare in the past and I did care. Women tend to be more private that way. You see it in simple things like changing rooms where men nearly always walk around naked in friont of each other. Women not so much. Men pee in front of each other something women never do. Whether you want to see it or admit it or not there are distinct differences between men and women this way.

Does everyone really have to feel like you to have their feelings and opinions validated?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I have also had a cancer scare in the past and I did care. Women tend to be more private that way. You see it in simple things like changing rooms where men nearly always walk around naked in friont of each other. Women not so much. Men pee in front of each other something women never do. Whether you want to see it or admit it or not there are distinct differences between men and women this way.

Does everyone really have to feel like you to have their feelings and opinions validated?

Stereotypes will get you nowhere.

Your last point makes no real sense, I assume you just wanted to score points but didn't really think what you wrote through? Because I never said anywhere that only people who think like me have valid opinions, that's definitely more of an attitude you tend to display.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Let’s clarify what I actually said shall we, not your interpretation. I did not say trans people were more likely to sexually abuse someone - I said that if any man can simply claim to feel like a woman and is therefore a woman and can have easier access to women and girls, such a policy will be taken advantage of by some men and the real creeps will come out of the woodwork with such an opportunity presented to them.

Aren’t most rapes and other sexual attacks mainly opportunistic in nature.

I’m so reassured that a young guy on an internet site says it will never happen.

What you said was sensationalist and driven by ignorance and fear. This is what you said.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

You basically did the trans equivalent of saying 'Gay marriage? What next? Making bestiality and paedophilia legal?' By making what would be an exceptionally rare (and currently impossible situation) seem commonplace, you are demonising trans people by comparing them to peadophiles by making out that they could just be faking it to molest people. You can't self certify yourself as a trans person at the moment and the law doesn't really cover someone who isn't certified. Any old peado can't just walk into a doctor's office and say 'I'm trans, now let me abuse people'. That's just incredibly so far removed from reality. Any kind of trans certification whether by a doctor or self certified isn't a license to rape people, you do understand that right?

Anybody you meet could be a potential rapist but that doesn't give you the right to demonise anyone that happens to be different from you.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Stereotypes will get you nowhere.

Your last point makes no real sense, I assume you just wanted to score points but didn't really think what you wrote through? Because I never said anywhere that only people who think like me have valid opinions, that's definitely more of an attitude you tend to display.




What you said was sensationalist and driven by ignorance and fear. This is what you said.



You basically did the trans equivalent of saying 'Gay marriage? What next? Making bestiality and paedophilia legal?' By making what would be an exceptionally rare (and currently impossible situation) seem commonplace, you are demonising trans people by comparing them to peadophiles by making out that they could just be faking it to molest people. You can't self certify yourself as a trans person at the moment and the law doesn't really cover someone who isn't certified. Any old peado can't just walk into a doctor's office and say 'I'm trans, now let me abuse people'. That's just incredibly so far removed from reality. Any kind of trans certification whether by a doctor or self certified isn't a license to rape people, you do understand that right?

Anybody you meet could be a potential rapist but that doesn't give you the right to demonise anyone that happens to be different from you.

As I said your interpretation.

My opinions are driven by the very real fear of the very real real risks that self-certification will pose to young vulnerable girls/women in currently protected female only areas not to mention the trampelling over of all womens’ rights to feel private, safe and unmolested is these female only areas.

Hey, you are not female so what do you care. It doesn’t affect you but nevertheless you think you have the right to support the dumping of such ludicrous proposals on those who it will actually affect. Your opinion on this has little value in comparison to those who it will actually affect.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As I said your interpretation.

My opinions are driven by the very real fear of the very real real risks that self-certification will pose to young vulnerable girls/women in currently protected female only areas not to mention the trampelling over of all womens’ rights to feel private, safe and unmolested is these female only areas.

Hey, you are not female so what do you care. It doesn’t affect you but nevertheless you think you have the right to support the dumping of such ludicrous proposals on those who it will actually affect. Your opinion on this has little value in comparison to those who it will actually affect.

They are driven by irrationality and ignorance. You've taken what would be a rare and almost unheard of hypothetical scenario and you are treating it like it would be the norm and whether you intend to or not, you are demonising transgendered people by putting them all in the same light as sexual predators.

A man isn't going to be able to say 'I'm a woman now' and stroll into the women's changing room just like that even if self certification becomes a thing. Women won't be made to have intimate examinations done by someone they aren't comfortable with doing it. You've taken what is a story that was confirmed on all sides to be a clerical error, ignored all logic and reasoning that said it was so in order to fuel your own agenda of hating anything that isn't exactly like you.

You should pay attention, I've said to you a few times in this topic that I disagree with self certification, the current process we have isn't perfect and there are many transgendered people who are unhappy with the choices they've made and I think taking the professionals out of the equation to help guide people to the correct solution for themselves is a mistake. I actually agree with Theresa May in saying that transgendered people shouldn't be treated like they are ill but it should be mandatory that experts in the field oversee the process to make sure it's the right thing for the person in question.

As for your 'it doesn't affect you' line. Does sexual assault only happen to women in women's changing rooms? Men can be just as dangerous to other men, just like women can assault other women. Do you treat other women with such suspicion, sure, sexual assault by a woman on another woman in a changing room is probably rare but probably not as rare as an attack by a 'transgendered' person that's only pretending to be transgendered in order to rape people. Where's your concern for the safety of women from other women? Do you understand what I'm getting at here? You are using an almost unheard type of incident to fuel your agenda and it's just foolishness. There are many real issues that plague women regarding their safety that are way more common than the hypotheticals you are spouting but I doubt you'll ever talk about them since you only seem concerned about feminism when it's in regards to 'justifying' your hatred of whatever people you hate on any given day.

I think in all the years I've known you, in both names you've had on this website. I'm not sure I've ever seen you comment on a feminist issue that hasn't involved trying to justify your prejudices in some way. You pretend to be a feminist but you just want to vindicate your hatred.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They are driven by irrationality and ignorance. You've taken what would be a rare and almost unheard of hypothetical scenario and you are treating it like it would be the norm and whether you intend to or not, you are demonising transgendered people by putting them all in the same light as sexual predators.

A man isn't going to be able to say 'I'm a woman now' and stroll into the women's changing room just like that even if self certification becomes a thing. Women won't be made to have intimate examinations done by someone they aren't comfortable with doing it. You've taken what is a story that was confirmed on all sides to be a clerical error, ignored all logic and reasoning that said it was so in order to fuel your own agenda of hating anything that isn't exactly like you.

You should pay attention, I've said to you a few times in this topic that I disagree with self certification, the current process we have isn't perfect and there are many transgendered people who are unhappy with the choices they've made and I think taking the professionals out of the equation to help guide people to the correct solution for themselves is a mistake. I actually agree with Theresa May in saying that transgendered people shouldn't be treated like they are ill but it should be mandatory that experts in the field oversee the process to make sure it's the right thing for the person in question.

As for your 'it doesn't affect you' line. Does sexual assault only happen to women in women's changing rooms? Men can be just as dangerous to other men, just like women can assault other women. Do you treat other women with such suspicion, sure, sexual assault by a woman on another woman in a changing room is probably rare but probably not as rare as an attack by a 'transgendered' person that's only pretending to be transgendered in order to rape people. Where's your concern for the safety of women from other women? Do you understand what I'm getting at here? You are using an almost unheard type of incident to fuel your agenda and it's just foolishness. There are many real issues that plague women regarding their safety that are way more common than the hypotheticals you are spouting but I doubt you'll ever talk about them since you only seem concerned about feminism when it's in regards to 'justifying' your hatred of whatever people you hate on any given day.

I think in all the years I've known you, in both names you've had on this website. I'm not sure I've ever seen you comment on a feminist issue that hasn't involved trying to justify your prejudices in some way. You pretend to be a feminist but you just want to vindicate your hatred.

There you go again - with the hate. That is a word far more common in your vocabulary than mine.

Every time I express opinions on anything involving a minority group you stereotype me as a racist, homophobe etc. Classic shut-down tactics and your problem not mine.

You’re not a woman, you don’t how it feels to be a woman and you will never really get it so don’t try and kid people you know more about feminism than women. You are not the thought police however hard you try to be.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

I'm not sure what kind of impact self identification would have, it's all purely hypothetical, but I'd assume that if someone had a preference for a biological woman to carry out the procedure then that would be adhered to regardless of self identification. I'm not sure. But honestly from my own point of view I really do think that with anything medical that gender shouldn't be an issue anyway. Whether it's a nurse/doctor/surgeon, whoever, they're medical professionals doing a job - if a surgeon is operating on you then they're going to see and touch your body, but should all surgeons operating on women also be women? There's nothing sexual or perverted in any of it, but many people do still associate trans with perversion and I think that's the real issue here, I do agree with bots that this wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow had it been a man assigned to do the test rather than a trans person. I think a lot of benefit would come from combating the fears and perceptions of trans people being perverted so women like those you speak of no longer feel uncomfortable. Because what is the alternative? Banning perfectly capable trans people from becoming medical professionals on the basis that they are trans, when these people could be saving lives?