[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by parmnion

If everyone was as gullible as you try and make them out to be...

Im with you and brillo, there is no real story here...but for a debate..
Imagine if jimmy saville was a doctor.

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

When I had my cancer scare, I didn't care whether or not the doctor handling my bits was a man or woman or anything in between, I just wanted to know whether I had cancer or not. I imagine when faced with the prospect of Cancer, most people would ultimately feel the same way.

Self certification, as much as I disagree with it, won't affect the preferences of patients. If a female patient wants a woman to do the smear test then a woman will do the smear, this was just a clerical mistake that was corrected.

Your last sentence just made me laugh, we've gone from blaming immigrants and the EU costing the NHS money to blamings Trans nurses and doctors What next, Single mothers?

[bitontheslide]

what would have been the reaction if a male doctor had been assigned through a clerical error? I suggest it would have been dealt with in a civilised way without any drama. So, my question is why is this treated any differently?

In large organisations, mistakes happen

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

No, like in march, april, august...im saying paedophiles can see an in....ya get me now?


Yer last chance btw!

That's such a silly generalist argument that could apply to ANYTHING and nothing.

The idea that a peado would somehow get themselves certified as a trans woman just to molest people is so silly and to use such a ridiculously rare if not non existent argument in a debate is just pointless. Whether you intended to or not (I'm leaning towards the former) you equated trans people to peadophiles.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

Spot on brillo...and couple what you say with the pressure a government must feel to tick the boxes of minority whateverers...they, the paedos have the loophole...


And people moan if conservative dont tick those boxes, god help us if numbnuts gets in....cause i hope im asleep for that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

Except that's not going to happen. It's just irrational to think that could become the norm and it's harmful as you are basically suggesting that trans people are more likely to sexually abuse someone because they might only be claiming to be trans just for some pretend idea that it means they can get away with molesting people.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's such a silly generalist argument that could apply to ANYTHING and nothing.

The idea that a peado would somehow get themselves certified as a trans woman just to molest people is so silly and to use such a ridiculously rare if not non existent argument in a debate is just pointless. Whether you intended to or not (I'm leaning towards the former) you equated trans people to peadophiles.

"Certified"as a transwoman.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

"Certified"as a transwoman.

Congrats, you know how to use speech marks, got anything to add to the topic or?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Rules should be in place, then the so called clerical error couldn't or shouldn't happen.
Unless you are a fully transitioned nurse or doctor then you shouldn't be allowed to do the smear tests. If then you find you have been asked to as a clerical error you can stop it going any further and sort the clerical error out.
Smears can be embarrassing for lots of ladies, especially younger ones, everything that can be done should be done to help make them feel at ease.

Perfectly put Smudgie

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's such a silly generalist argument that could apply to ANYTHING and nothing.

The idea that a peado would somehow get themselves certified as a trans woman just to molest people is so silly and to use such a ridiculously rare if not non existent argument in a debate is just pointless. Whether you intended to or not (I'm leaning towards the former) you equated trans people to peadophiles.

Even though ive demonstrated in london against paedos and the establishment along side many sexually confused individuals....dont make me post video evidence cause there will be retaliation evidence needed about your humanness needed.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

When I had my cancer scare, I didn't care whether or not the doctor handling my bits was a man or woman or anything in between, I just wanted to know whether I had cancer or not. I imagine when faced with the prospect of Cancer, most people would ultimately feel the same way.

Self certification, as much as I disagree with it, won't affect the preferences of patients. If a female patient wants a woman to do the smear test then a woman will do the smear, this was just a clerical mistake that was corrected.

Your last sentence just made me laugh, we've gone from blaming immigrants and the EU costing the NHS money to blamings Trans nurses and doctors What next, Single mothers?

I have also had a cancer scare in the past and I did care. Women tend to be more private that way. You see it in simple things like changing rooms where men nearly always walk around naked in friont of each other. Women not so much. Men pee in front of each other something women never do. Whether you want to see it or admit it or not there are distinct differences between men and women this way.

Does everyone really have to feel like you to have their feelings and opinions validated?

[Kazanne]

As a woman I always insist on a woman for smear tests,I find them highly embarrassing and IF a guy was to do it I wouldn't have one,simple as that. Not everyone is happy to flaunt their genitals at the drop of a hat.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Jesus ****..my nuts and all the wiring just shrivelled like a milkmans hopes as he realises his milk round tips just aint going to make it.



YOU WERE AWAKE...WTHEF?

Yeah, it's done under local anaesthetic . I wish I could say I didn't feel a thing - but that's not true either, you can feel a sort of pulling / tugging with an ache like being kicked in the nuts, and I personally felt some "sharp" pain when they were stitching up, too.

All while the senior nurse was reassuringly patting my chest and telling me I was doing well for not crying, and the student was asking me about Irish Lotto! Bloody surreal...

[Maru]

I had my first pap smear/catheter at 12 by a male doctor as I was way too intimidated by doctors at that point to ask for anything else. I could tell it was really uncomfortable for him though (and my mom/grandmother was there), but it was a bit surreal.

To add to that, the nurse was screaming at me to relax. I somehow managed to tell her in my own shy 12-yr old to ****... and there I'm thinking "I have a tube embedded in me and it hurts like you would not believe, but you want me to RELAX? Sure Jan". I would've loved to have relaxed, that would've meant the whole thing would be over. But we can't always have nice things.

My point is I can understand wanting to have more control as a patient and not dealing pushy doctors or nurses.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Meh. Personally, I think in a health care setting gender should be irrelevant anyway... The people carrying out the procedures are professionals and that's all that should matter.

When I got the snip I was lay with all my junk on display (inside and out, haha) for a good 20 mins. 5 other people in the room - 1 male surgeon, 3 female nurses, and a female student nurse. The only thing I was given a choice on was whether or not it was OK for the student to be there... No one asked me if I minded a female nurse slathering my balls in iodine solution . Honestly it was the last thing on my mind at the time!

I'm not sure which is worse, your story or mine.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yeah, it's done under local anaesthetic . I wish I could say I didn't feel a thing - but that's not true either, you can feel a sort of pulling / tugging with an ache like being kicked in the nuts, and I personally felt some "sharp" pain when they were stitching up, too.

All while the senior nurse was reassuringly patting my chest and telling me I was doing well for not crying, and the student was asking me about Irish Lotto! Bloody surreal...

Whoa whoa whoa....ah got knocked oot, woke up to toast....mocked by the biggest bitch of an ex wife for walking solemenly up the hospital corridors as i suddenly realised my bollox wern't shaved for fashion.

[parmnion]

Checking dates and saville movements

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

I'm not sure what kind of impact self identification would have, it's all purely hypothetical, but I'd assume that if someone had a preference for a biological woman to carry out the procedure then that would be adhered to regardless of self identification. I'm not sure. But honestly from my own point of view I really do think that with anything medical that gender shouldn't be an issue anyway. Whether it's a nurse/doctor/surgeon, whoever, they're medical professionals doing a job - if a surgeon is operating on you then they're going to see and touch your body, but should all surgeons operating on women also be women? There's nothing sexual or perverted in any of it, but many people do still associate trans with perversion and I think that's the real issue here, I do agree with bots that this wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow had it been a man assigned to do the test rather than a trans person. I think a lot of benefit would come from combating the fears and perceptions of trans people being perverted so women like those you speak of no longer feel uncomfortable. Because what is the alternative? Banning perfectly capable trans people from becoming medical professionals on the basis that they are trans, when these people could be saving lives?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Except that's not going to happen. It's just irrational to think that could become the norm and it's harmful as you are basically suggesting that trans people are more likely to sexually abuse someone because they might only be claiming to be trans just for some pretend idea that it means they can get away with molesting people.

Let’s clarify what I actually said shall we, not your interpretation. I did not say trans people were more likely to sexually abuse someone - I said that if any man can simply claim to feel like a woman and is therefore a woman and can have easier access to women and girls, such a policy will be taken advantage of by some men and the real creeps will come out of the woodwork with such an opportunity presented to them.

Aren’t most rapes and other sexual attacks mainly opportunistic in nature.

I’m so reassured that a young guy on an internet site says it will never happen.

[parmnion]

And to clarify, niether brillo, nor myself, are paedoes....we do however worry about the paedo slant on things....you all forget the most important skill of being a paedo is deviancy...



Now stop being so wrapped up in individuality ffs....that ended at 23.59 on the 31st of december 1989.....lgbtetcrights.....to me, and my view that the world is run by paedophilles...straights have **** lives too....only we get mocked on jeremy kyle for it...bloody teens with crappy parents who cant undetstand why there sons or daughters fancy the same sex get a whole new chapter and verse written for them.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Whoa whoa whoa....ah got knocked oot, woke up to toast....mocked by the biggest bitch of an ex wife for walking solemenly up the hospital corridors as i suddenly realised my bollox wern't shaved for fashion.

How long ago was that?? For me it was like 20 minutes in and out ... I'm lead to believe that that's pretty standard these days. Into a booth, changed into a gown, into the surgical room, lie back, jab jab snip snip (that's one of the worst bits... You can hear the tubes snipping), cup of coffee and a biscuit, clothes back on and **** off.

I think I might have had some mild PTSD for about 6 months afterwards...

[parmnion]

Well it was late 90s...nothing medical to say otherwise....


Just me and smirking bitch waving bye bye to me or me peanuts..... left alone with the least cool bag out of 4 blokes who are clutching slightly less gormlessly looking bags less gormessly than me....

Prototypes for the manbag...thats me...explaining away the embarrassment...to my head bowed head shaking mates.

[parmnion]

Jab...asleep...toast an hour later........pss dont mock the cup.

[Kizzy]

Ridiculous to make an issue of an error, yes people have a choice but come on these people are professionals!
In an emergency situation or in childbirth for instance does anyone care who treats them?... No, of course not they're there to do a job.

What a horrible prejudiced non story

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ridiculous to make an issue of an error, yes people have a choice but come on these people are professionals!
In an emergency situation or in childbirth for instance does anyone care who treats them?... No, of course not they're there to (

I agree.