[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a dangerous mentality that judges people not as individuals - but according to their 'type'.
We have to move away from 'group-think' and embrace individualism.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Robodog

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a society that judges people according to 'type'.
The only way to do that is to embrace our own - and each others - individuality.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo - however well meaning they are - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

Very little of that has anything to do with what I'm saying, in fact your first few paragraphs enforces it. Too many people pretend to fly the flag of equality just to quieten down dissenting voices while having no interest in actually working towards that equality.

The whole 'innocent men and innocent white people' being victimised by Metoo and BLM made me roll my eyes in a way that Ann would have stood up and clapped for. BLM isn't against all white people, it isn't even against white people, it's against police brutality, it was formed in response to a string of unjustified murders committed by the police against black people. If you look at BLM and think that they are against white people then you are missing the point.

Same for Metoo, it's not an attack on men, it's an attack on anyone that sexually abuses, assaults or harasses others. If you see the movement as an attack on 'innocent men' then you've missed the point again.

You've not really given me any reason to believe that you aren't just another person that wants to shut up voices they don't want to hear.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

1. If you look at BLM and think that they are against white people then you are missing the point.

2. If you see the movement as an attack on 'innocent men' then you've missed the point again.

3, You've not really given me any reason to believe that you aren't just another person that wants to shut up voices they don't want to hear.

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/cather...etter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Robodog

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/cather...etter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

One person doesn't speak for a movement.

A voice damning a movement doesn't rob it of it's validity either.

As for your final point, it's called reading between the lines. You say you want equality but your criticism of these groups and the fact that you're justifying your dislike through both a warped understanding of their goals and presenting singular people as evidence of your claims speaks louder.

The fact that you are suggesting civil rights group help perpetuate these issues further than if they were silent says it all. It's that silence you're after.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

1. One person doesn't speak for a movement.

2. A voice damning a movement doesn't rob it of it's validity either.

3. As for your final point, it's called reading between the lines.
The fact that you are suggesting civil rights group help perpetuate these issues further than if they were silent says it all. It's that silence you're after.

1. Erm... A leader DOES speak for a movement.
You think that level of racism is acceptable?
I don't.
Not by ANYONE, black or white.
Justify it, ignore it all you like.
But you cannot seriously claim to be for equality if you do.

2. The open letter raises some serious questions about the potential harm of the metoo movement for both men AND women and it's impact on how we flirt, seduce, approach and perceive each other.

Again you can ignore it if you want to, but you cannot claim to be for social righteousness if you are so ready to dismiss such serious concerns.

3. It's not called 'reading between the lines'. It's called 'you putting words into my mouth'

Nowhere have i asked for anyone's silence.
Quite the reverse, i have opened up this thread for discussion!
Sounds like you are the one trying to do the silencing of any perspective that threatens your own narrative.

You want equality and fair treatment?
So do I.
On that we can agree.
The question is how do we achieve that?

You seem to be defending the 'group think' approach.
Judging by the examples given such as the BLM's racist demands. i can't see how that can do anything but make it worse.

I'm saying take the individualist approach.

Pursue the INDIVIDUALS for the crimes they commit: whether that is white cops killing innocent blacks or muslim men raping white girls.

Pursuing those individuals by law, will send out the message to any other would-be criminals that such treatment of others is not acceptable.

No need to demonise all whites or all cops due to the criminal actions of certain individuals.
No need to demonise all muslims for the criminal actions of certain individuals.

I can think of nothing more racist or more destructive than continuing down that path.

[Robodog]

To clarify. This is what i'm talking about:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.


.

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by Robodog

1. Erm... A leader DOES speak for a movement.
You think that level of racism is acceptable?
I don't.
Not by ANYONE, black or white.
Justify it, ignore it all you like.
But you cannot seriously claim to be for equality if you do.

2. The open letter raises some serious questions about the potential harm of the metoo movement for both men AND women and it's impact on how we flirt, seduce, approach and perceive each other.

Again you can ignore it if you want to, but you cannot claim to be for social righteousness if you are so ready to dismiss such serious concerns.

3. It's not called 'reading between the lines'. It's called 'you putting words into my mouth'

Nowhere have i asked for anyone's silence.
Quite the reverse, i have opened up this thread for discussion!
Sounds like you are the one trying to do the silencing of any perspective that threatens your own narrative.

You want equality and fair treatment?
So do I.
On that we can agree.
The question is how do we achieve that?

You seem to be defending the 'group think' approach.
Judging by the examples given such as the BLM's racist demands. i can't see how that can do anything but make it worse.

I'm saying take the individualist approach.

Pursue the INDIVIDUALS for the crimes they commit: whether that is white cops killing innocent blacks or muslim men raping white girls.

Pursuing those individuals by law, will send out the message to any other would-be criminals that such treatment of others is not acceptable.

No need to demonise all whites or all cops due to the criminal actions of certain individuals.
No need to demonise all muslims for the criminal actions of certain individuals.

I can think of nothing more racist or more destructive than continuing down that path.

Very very well said Robo.

To be honest I think it takes a lot of years to come to the realisation that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

In my younger days I would of made judgements about people based on their "group" now I take each individual as I find them.

That comes with age which is why Wayne and Amanda have it.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Paula D

Very very well said Robo.

To be honest I think it takes a lot of years to come to the realisation that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

In my younger days I would of made judgements about people based on their "group" now I take each individual as I find them.

That comes with age which is why Wayne and Amanda have it.

Thanks Paula

Yes, I went through the same thing. Used to see groups before people.

With age, comes wisdom.

You see the pitfalls of your old perceptions.

And the importance of evolving them.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Robodog

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/cather...etter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

You know snowflakes ignore all reason, cause it doesnt fit with the narrative of the lefty brainwashing they suffer at the hands of middle class twats at home and at school

The middle class are responsible for this and must be destroyed

Hows that for fairness lol

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Miranda123

You know snowflakes ignore all reason, cause it doesnt fit with the narrative of the lefty brainwashing they suffer at the hands of middle class twats at home and at school

The middle class are responsible for this and must be destroyed

Hows that for fairness lol

It's the 'everybody gets a trophy' way of educating/training.

It's created a sense of mass entitlement and for many - an inability to deal with facts and perspectives that challenge their own narrative.
Not good for when you cut the apron strings and hit the real world.
That's why so many people today can't have a discussion without immediately labelling their opponent and shutting down the debate.

The media doesn't help either, the way it stirs up division and hate on a daily basis.


I reckon all 18-21 year olds should be required to work in a third world country for a month. A government scheme like national service.

Nothing makes you grow up quicker, have respect for others and appreciate what you've got.

That would sort out the first world problems from the REAL issues.

.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Robodog

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a dangerous mentality that judges people not as individuals - but according to their 'type'.
We have to move away from 'group-think' and embrace individualism.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

Bloody well said!!!