[bots]

i will state my thoughts for what its worth, and its not a direct attack on anyone.

This is a left leaning forum, the majority are young members with left leaning views, some extreme left wing. In the run up to the GE, while things were said about Corbyn, the majority was attack upon attack at the conservative party. This I really don't mind because it reflects the membership and its good to debate. However, when a unilateral decision is made to protect a political side by deleting the views of perfectly valid posters, its wrong, and if that is going to be the forum policy, then i won't contribute to the debate, because it's not even and fair. So for me until this is cleared up, I shall stay well clear of any political threads. If rules are going to be applied to political debate, they should be applied fairly and evenly

[jet]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i will state my thoughts for what its worth, and its not a direct attack on anyone.

This is a left leaning forum, the majority are young members with left leaning views, some extreme left wing. In the run up to the GE, while things were said about Corbyn, the majority was attack upon attack at the conservative party. This I really don't mind because it reflects the membership and its good to debate. However, when a unilateral decision is made to protect a political side by deleting the views of perfectly valid posters, its wrong, and if that is going to be the forum policy, then i won't contribute to the debate, because it's not even and fair. So for me until this is cleared up, I shall stay well clear of any political threads. If rules are going to be applied to political debate, they should be applied fairly and evenly

I totally agree with this, and I'll do the same meanwhile and steer clear.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jet

I totally agree with this, and I'll do the same meanwhile and steer clear.

Me too.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Me too.

#metoo they touched me on the...

Oh wait this thread is about some other thing. Some kinda whingey nonsense. Never mind. Me too about that as well I guess. What is it we're talking about?

Actually I guess my two cents is what it always is; this is a private forum, the people running it pick the mods, if you don't like their policies then by all means complain about it but if the status quo has been decided then . If the forum staff don't want every SD thread to become a Jezza Corbz thread then that's their business. If the forum staff want to force every thread on every topic to be about a micropiglet wearing a monocle that's their business. No one is being oppressed here. This isn't a public space. You're in someone else's house and if you don't like the game they're playing, you are free to go home. This applies to all of us and is well worth remembering.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

#metoo they touched me on the...

Oh wait this thread is about some other thing. Some kinda whingey nonsense. Never mind. Me too about that as well I guess. What is it we're talking about?

Actually I guess my two cents is what it always is; this is a private forum, the people running it pick the mods, if you don't like their policies then by all means complain about it but if the status quo has been decided then . If the forum staff don't want every SD thread to become a Jezza Corbz thread then that's their business. If the forum staff want to force every thread on every topic to be about a micropiglet wearing a monocle that's their business. No one is being oppressed here. This isn't a public space. You're in someone else's house and if you don't like the game they're playing, you are free to go home. This applies to all of us and is well worth remembering.

That is all well and good but without members it wouldn’t be around for long so it isn’t completely a one-way thing is it. SD certainly woudn’t get much use if only those with one opinion could post. Debate usually involves the expression of differing opinions does it not.

Or is the site to become just a supporter of one political party - just another Corbynista.

[jet]

I really can't post as I have a hell of a migraine, but I just want to say a big thank you to Ammi.

....and to clear it up I am ALL MAN. Even though I cry a lot and Mrs. Jet wears the trousers in our house.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jet

I really can't post as I have a hell of a migraine, but I just want to say a big thank you to Ammi.

....and to clear it up I am ALL MAN. Even though I cry a lot and Mrs. Jet wears the trousers in our house.

I always thought you were a man until someone told me you weren't, I'm really confused now

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That is all well and good but without members it wouldn’t be around for long so it isn’t completely a one-way thing is it. SD certainly woudn’t get much use if only those with one opinion could post. Debate usually involves the expression of differing opinions does it not.

Or is the site to become just a supporter of one political party - just another Corbynista.

True but again, that's up to the owners to decide, and if they think there's a problem, to take action.

As it stands I don't think there ARE that many passionate "Corbyn fans", no more than there were many "Farage fans" during the Brexit vote. Just a handful of each really.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That is all well and good but without members it wouldn’t be around for long so it isn’t completely a one-way thing is it. SD certainly woudn’t get much use if only those with one opinion could post. Debate usually involves the expression of differing opinions does it not.

Or is the site to become just a supporter of one political party - just another Corbynista.

We are well aware of this, and this is why its clearly nonsense that we are trying to censor one side. If we were at the stage of wanting to censor one side (and you have to remember that among the staff there are a range of political stances too) then it would make much more sense to just close down this section fullstop wouldn't it. As the section cannot go on with only one viewpoint..it just would not work. As surely everyone knows. So this accusation that instead of trying to keep threads on topic, we have something against those of a certain political persuasion and want to censor them..its just rubbish.

I keep getting drawn into ****ing posting when I don't want to. So am now actually leaving the thread instead of reading the rest of the posts as I really do not want to get back into arguing about this when I have already gone over this clearly. And doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Or something.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i will state my thoughts for what its worth, and its not a direct attack on anyone.

This is a left leaning forum, the majority are young members with left leaning views, some extreme left wing. In the run up to the GE, while things were said about Corbyn, the majority was attack upon attack at the conservative party. This I really don't mind because it reflects the membership and its good to debate. However, when a unilateral decision is made to protect a political side by deleting the views of perfectly valid posters, its wrong, and if that is going to be the forum policy, then i won't contribute to the debate, because it's not even and fair. So for me until this is cleared up, I shall stay well clear of any political threads. If rules are going to be applied to political debate, they should be applied fairly and evenly

Although I agree with that in principle doesn’t that just give those that seek to shut down the opinions of others what they want. Isn’t that effectively giving them exactly what they want - free reign without challenge. Mixed feelings on this.

[Ammi]

..the thing is though, who are ‘they’ that would be given exactly what they wanted..?..it’s often said..’this is where the cause of members not wanting to post on SD is’...but that ‘cause’ isn’t a fixed thing, its what an individual thinks it is and where the issues lie...over time I’ve had private conversations about why a person feels put off from posting in SD and those conversations have all differed in their reasons, although some have been similar...and some members even saying, oh I’m off now because ‘that group’ or that member is ‘shutting down’ and it’s just not worth it etc..and some would rather discuss topics by PM, rather than in a thread atm for the reasons they have which also can be different...but ‘that group’ or ‘that member’ is so interchangeable as well, depending on perceptions...so far as modding is concerned, we must be a nightmare .....and I do totally agree with Dezzy in the ‘do we only take issue because of the person’, who we might personally just not feel any connection of thoughts with or conveyance of thoughts whatsoever...anyways, none of that’s helpful but what I wanted to say is...jet, you’re pretty amazing, you know that..?.....you felt a potential ‘pack’ in the thread vein toward Dezzy might develop...which you immediately ‘withdrew’ from having any part of...I think I like you a lot actually....(...btw jet, Dezzy is pretty amazing as well and a great and devoted moderator also ..)...

[Ammi]

...actually Vicky is an awful moderator...she looked up my file and saw I hadn’t pressed the report button since 2016, when I haven’t really been here for the whole of 2017..that’s how forum aware she is.....(...obviously she’s not awful at all and I’m sure she won’t mind be saying that...)...but I guess it’s showing how difficult the general moderator thing is in trying their best to be objective and observant etc...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...actually Vicky is an awful moderator...she looked up my file and saw I hadn’t pressed the report button since 2016, when I haven’t really been here for the whole of 2017..that’s how forum aware she is.....(...obviously she’s not awful at all and I’m sure she won’t mind be saying that...)...but I guess it’s showing how difficult the general moderator thing is in trying their best to be objective and observant etc...

I failed slightly there for sure

I do not understand how people are taking this as trying to 'protect a political side' when its been explained literally over and over that this is about multiple threads going offtopic with the same stuff. I mean, if there was someone who liked Corbyn doing this in so many threads, the same would happen (I think from memory this did happen once actually, and that wasn't taken well either)

But y'all keep saying in this 9 page thread about how awful Corbyn and those around him, and his supporters are..that anyone who dislikes Corbyn or is right leaning is being censored. Maybe go say the same thing in any of the other multiple negative Corbyn threads, or threads that are negative about the left in general. Of course we are definitely trying to rid the site of any dissent. As a serious debates forum absolutely can work when all of the posters in there agree

Anyway, I'm not being drawn back into discussions about it as I have repeated myself so many times already and seemingly been ignored if what people are taking away from this is that no negative posts about Corbyn are allowed. Its really just paranoid nonsense, it really is. Maybe pick yourself a left wing figure and start spamming all over the forum, about how much you love them, one line posts, random turning of every political threads into how much you love this left wing figure, and see what happens (actually please do not actually do this, no more offtopic stuff ). As it will be exactly the same thing, which I reckon kind of proves that its not about silencing one side, its about trying to keep SD from being a repetitive load of bollocks.

Again, went into more than I planned to here but meh. It still won't be listened to and people will continue to have this (false) view that we are 'protecting' the left of whatever. The most left leaning member on here seems to bloody love all of the Corbyn discussions anyway, no matter how they start. It seems to be those who are not that into politics, or are just sick to death of seeing the same stuff everywhere that have issues with the repetitiveness in threads...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I failed slightly there for sure

I do not understand how people are taking this as trying to 'protect a political side' when its been explained literally over and over that this is about multiple threads going offtopic with the same stuff. I mean, if there was someone who liked Corbyn doing this in so many threads, the same would happen (I think from memory this did happen once actually, and that wasn't taken well either)

But y'all keep saying in this 9 page thread about how awful Corbyn and those around him, and his supporters are..that anyone who dislikes Corbyn or is right leaning is being censored. Maybe go say the same thing in any of the other multiple negative Corbyn threads, or threads that are negative about the left in general. Of course we are definitely trying to rid the site of any dissent. As a serious debates forum absolutely can work when all of the posters in there agree

Anyway, I'm not being drawn back into discussions about it as I have repeated myself so many times already and seemingly been ignored if what people are taking away from this is that no negative posts about Corbyn are allowed. Its really just paranoid nonsense, it really is. Maybe pick yourself a left wing figure and start spamming all over the forum, about how much you love them, one line posts, random turning of every political threads into how much you love this left wing figure, and see what happens (actually please do not actually do this, no more offtopic stuff ). As it will be exactly the same thing, which I reckon kind of proves that its not about silencing one side, its about trying to keep SD from being a repetitive load of bollocks.

Again, went into more than I planned to here but meh. It still won't be listened to and people will continue to have this (false) view that we are 'protecting' the left of whatever. The most left leaning member on here seems to bloody love all of the Corbyn discussions anyway, no matter how they start. It seems to be those who are not that into politics, or are just sick to death of seeing the same stuff everywhere that have issues with the repetitiveness in threads...

Vicky, I appreciate your well meaning explanations, I really do and I know you believe what you are saying to be true, but my perception is completely different and I'm not alone in that. The people raising criticism are not stupid people. They feel an injustice is being done. I've made my decision, that's what works best for me in the circumstances, time will tell how things go in the future

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Vicky, I appreciate your well meaning explanations, I really do and I know you believe what you are saying to be true, but my perception is completely different and I'm not alone in that. The people raising criticism are not stupid people. They feel an injustice is being done. I've made my decision, that's what works best for me in the circumstances, time will tell how things go in the future

Yeah well thats totally up to you. I am not saying those criticizing are stupid people either.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The most left leaning member on here seems to bloody love all of the Corbyn discussions anyway, no matter how they start.

that would be me, and I hate them!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

that would be me, and I hate them!

Sorry, I was thinking of kizzy

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the thing is though, who are ‘they’ that would be given exactly what they wanted..?..it’s often said..’this is where the cause of members not wanting to post on SD is’...but that ‘cause’ isn’t a fixed thing, its what an individual thinks it is and where the issues lie...over time I’ve had private conversations about why a person feels put off from posting in SD and those conversations have all differed in their reasons, although some have been similar...and some members even saying, oh I’m off now because ‘that group’ or that member is ‘shutting down’ and it’s just not worth it etc..and some would rather discuss topics by PM, rather than in a thread atm for the reasons they have which also can be different...but ‘that group’ or ‘that member’ is so interchangeable as well, depending on perceptions...so far as modding is concerned, we must be a nightmare .....and I do totally agree with Dezzy in the ‘do we only take issue because of the person’, who we might personally just not feel any connection of thoughts with or conveyance of thoughts whatsoever...anyways, none of that’s helpful but what I wanted to say is...jet, you’re pretty amazing, you know that..?.....you felt a potential ‘pack’ in the thread vein toward Dezzy might develop...which you immediately ‘withdrew’ from having any part of...I think I like you a lot actually....(...btw jet, Dezzy is pretty amazing as well and a great and devoted moderator also ..)...

Jet and Jaxie were the only ones posting and given they had their posts removed were quite entitled, I didn't see any pack mentality on the thread or any potential to see one develop

[Ammi]

..I have to say as well, I do find it personally quite heartbreaking with jet, when his personal experiences and pain are so obvious in ‘anti Corbyn’ posts...and he’s asked for ‘proof’ when that ‘proof’ is right there in everything he writes of his thoughts...and I do understand the need for ‘absolute proof’ also...but there are so many of us who have shared painful, emotional experiences in our lives over time and we can all relate and we can all feel and we do relate and we do feel... but ‘proof’ isn’t always asked for on other topics beyond Jeremy Corbyn...the ‘lack of objectivity’ as it were, isn’t always attached to and applied equally either...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I have to say as well, I do find it personally quite heartbreaking with jet, when his personal experiences and pain are so obvious in ‘anti Corbyn’ posts...and he’s asked for ‘proof’ when that ‘proof’ is right there in everything he writes of his thoughts...and I do understand the need for ‘absolute proof’ also...but there are so many of us who have shared painful, emotional experiences in our lives over time and we can all relate and we can all feel and we do relate and we do feel... but ‘proof’ isn’t always asked for on other topics beyond Jeremy Corbyn...the ‘lack of objectivity’ as it were, isn’t always attached to and applied equally either...

Not to open up things I've withdrawn from.
I would always want to know as much substantiated proof someone had intentionally supported fully,terrorist activities and the murders of innocent people, before I would declare that as proven fact.
Just as with sexual abuse allegations on issues or indeed any other very serious allegations being made against anyone.
Even the MPs expenses scandal, I would make no condonement of,until the full official investigation from authorities found some responsible on.

I fully support anyone's thinking and I get regular abuse for my position in political thinking now.
I however join in as to any serious allegation making against anyone as to very serious crimes without full,substantiated proof that has come from official investigation as to for example Corbyn and subsequent charges as to same.

The fact,there is none,not a jot,from any official sources,parliamentary watchdog,police or the courts will never see me entertaining anything other, than the allegations being a personal view or feeling,rather than being presented as full actual indisputable fact.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I have to say as well, I do find it personally quite heartbreaking with jet, when his personal experiences and pain are so obvious in ‘anti Corbyn’ posts...and he’s asked for ‘proof’ when that ‘proof’ is right there in everything he writes of his thoughts...and I do understand the need for ‘absolute proof’ also...but there are so many of us who have shared painful, emotional experiences in our lives over time and we can all relate and we can all feel and we do relate and we do feel... but ‘proof’ isn’t always asked for on other topics beyond Jeremy Corbyn...the ‘lack of objectivity’ as it were, isn’t always attached to and applied equally either...

To be fair Ammi, I think most people have been sympathetic to jet's experiences. I know I have and have said as much, and I've never seen people ask him to prove his OWN experiences or provide proof to justify his OWN feelings about Corbyn. However, on top of his own personal feelings, jet can become quite frustrated / annoyed when other people don't join him in his feelings about Corbyn... and that's where people might express a need for some sort of more concrete evidence before making their own minds up.

I mean - I personally was prompted to look at Corbyn more critically due to his posts and now don't particularly like the man... but I still can't find evidence of the more extreme things.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair Ammi, I think most people have been sympathetic to jet's experiences. I know I have and have said as much, and I've never seen people ask him to prove his OWN experiences or provide proof to justify his OWN feelings about Corbyn. However, on top of his own personal feelings, jet can become quite frustrated / annoyed when other people don't join him in his feelings about Corbyn... and that's where people might express a need for some sort of more concrete evidence before making their own minds up.

I mean - I personally was prompted to look at Corbyn more critically due to his posts and now don't particularly like the man... but I still can't find evidence of the more extreme things.

..yeah I do realise all of that TS...but I guess what I’m saying quite badly, as I’m prone to ...that Jet isnt the only person (..with very painful personal stuff..)..to become frustrated/annoyed etc, as you say...but more ‘tact’ and more understanding is something I’ve observed with others that haven’t been more focused on ‘Corbyn’...so I also see and understand his frustration and annoyance as well, if that’s what is felt he is showing...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the thing is though, who are ‘they’ that would be given exactly what they wanted..?..it’s often said..’this is where the cause of members not wanting to post on SD is’...but that ‘cause’ isn’t a fixed thing, its what an individual thinks it is and where the issues lie...over time I’ve had private conversations about why a person feels put off from posting in SD and those conversations have all differed in their reasons, although some have been similar...and some members even saying, oh I’m off now because ‘that group’ or that member is ‘shutting down’ and it’s just not worth it etc..and some would rather discuss topics by PM, rather than in a thread atm for the reasons they have which also can be different...but ‘that group’ or ‘that member’ is so interchangeable as well, depending on perceptions...so far as modding is concerned, we must be a nightmare .....and I do totally agree with Dezzy in the ‘do we only take issue because of the person’, who we might personally just not feel any connection of thoughts with or conveyance of thoughts whatsoever...anyways, none of that’s helpful but what I wanted to say is...jet, you’re pretty amazing, you know that..?.....you felt a potential ‘pack’ in the thread vein toward Dezzy might develop...which you immediately ‘withdrew’ from having any part of...I think I like you a lot actually....(...btw jet, Dezzy is pretty amazing as well and a great and devoted moderator also ..)...

The thing with Dezzy’s comments is that he himself is quick to take issue because of the person - something that has not gone unnoticed by others in a thread on many occasions. He is quick to dish it out but not so keen to be on the receiving end of it it seems when he perceives that is what is happening to him. It is not nice for anyone on the receiving end, that unpleasant feeling of a ‘pack’ mentality developing - something maybe he should think about before being so quick to give it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The thing with Dezzy’s comments is that he himself is quick to take issue because of the person - something that has not gone unnoticed by others in a thread on many occasions. He is quick to dish it out but not so keen to be on the receiving end of it it seems. It is not nice for anyone on the receiving end - something maybe he should think about before being so quick to give it.

...but then all of us are quick to dish it out but not so keen on receiving, Brillo.....I mean, our faults make us human and they’re there in all of us...it just feels, and quite often actually to me...that it’s more of a dash it’s Dezzy thing, as opposed to any other moderator who may sometimes be open to criticism also...I hate this whole ‘hypocrisy’ vein of thought anyway in terms of the forum specifically because we’re all hypocrites, each and every one of us...because we’re human and one size doesn’t fit all in every topic or individual stories we tend to discuss...anyways, I must go and start my day, Brillo..

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...but then all of us are quick to dish it out but not so keen on receiving, Brillo.....I mean, our faults make us human and they’re there in all of us...it just feels, and quite often actually to me...that it’s more of a dash it’s Dezzy thing, as opposed to any other moderator who may sometimes be open to criticism also...I hate this whole ‘hypocrisy’ vein of thought anyway in terms of the forum specifically because we’re all hypocrites, each and every one of us...because we’re human and one size doesn’t fit all in every topic or individual stories we tend to discuss...anyways, I must go and start my day, Brillo..

I do agree with much of that Ammi and agree we are all hypocrites at one time or another because as you say we all come with the flaws that come with being a human being.

But as someone who has felt singled-out by Dezzy and ‘friends’ on several occasions I have refused to be intimidated by it and, as such, am not as inclined to be so gracious on this.