[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..the thing is though, who are ‘they’ that would be given exactly what they wanted..?..it’s often said..’this is where the cause of members not wanting to post on SD is’...but that ‘cause’ isn’t a fixed thing, its what an individual thinks it is and where the issues lie...over time I’ve had private conversations about why a person feels put off from posting in SD and those conversations have all differed in their reasons, although some have been similar...and some members even saying, oh I’m off now because ‘that group’ or that member is ‘shutting down’ and it’s just not worth it etc..and some would rather discuss topics by PM, rather than in a thread atm for the reasons they have which also can be different...but ‘that group’ or ‘that member’ is so interchangeable as well, depending on perceptions...so far as modding is concerned, we must be a nightmare .....and I do totally agree with Dezzy in the ‘do we only take issue because of the person’, who we might personally just not feel any connection of thoughts with or conveyance of thoughts whatsoever...anyways, none of that’s helpful but what I wanted to say is...jet, you’re pretty amazing, you know that..?.....you felt a potential ‘pack’ in the thread vein toward Dezzy might develop...which you immediately ‘withdrew’ from having any part of...I think I like you a lot actually....(...btw jet, Dezzy is pretty amazing as well and a great and devoted moderator also ..)...

The thing with Dezzy’s comments is that he himself is quick to take issue because of the person - something that has not gone unnoticed by others in a thread on many occasions. He is quick to dish it out but not so keen to be on the receiving end of it it seems when he perceives that is what is happening to him. It is not nice for anyone on the receiving end, that unpleasant feeling of a ‘pack’ mentality developing - something maybe he should think about before being so quick to give it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The thing with Dezzy’s comments is that he himself is quick to take issue because of the person - something that has not gone unnoticed by others in a thread on many occasions. He is quick to dish it out but not so keen to be on the receiving end of it it seems. It is not nice for anyone on the receiving end - something maybe he should think about before being so quick to give it.

...but then all of us are quick to dish it out but not so keen on receiving, Brillo.....I mean, our faults make us human and they’re there in all of us...it just feels, and quite often actually to me...that it’s more of a dash it’s Dezzy thing, as opposed to any other moderator who may sometimes be open to criticism also...I hate this whole ‘hypocrisy’ vein of thought anyway in terms of the forum specifically because we’re all hypocrites, each and every one of us...because we’re human and one size doesn’t fit all in every topic or individual stories we tend to discuss...anyways, I must go and start my day, Brillo..

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I have to say as well, I do find it personally quite heartbreaking with jet, when his personal experiences and pain are so obvious in ‘anti Corbyn’ posts...and he’s asked for ‘proof’ when that ‘proof’ is right there in everything he writes of his thoughts...and I do understand the need for ‘absolute proof’ also...but there are so many of us who have shared painful, emotional experiences in our lives over time and we can all relate and we can all feel and we do relate and we do feel... but ‘proof’ isn’t always asked for on other topics beyond Jeremy Corbyn...the ‘lack of objectivity’ as it were, isn’t always attached to and applied equally either...

Not to open up things I've withdrawn from.
I would always want to know as much substantiated proof someone had intentionally supported fully,terrorist activities and the murders of innocent people, before I would declare that as proven fact.
Just as with sexual abuse allegations on issues or indeed any other very serious allegations being made against anyone.
Even the MPs expenses scandal, I would make no condonement of,until the full official investigation from authorities found some responsible on.

I fully support anyone's thinking and I get regular abuse for my position in political thinking now.
I however join in as to any serious allegation making against anyone as to very serious crimes without full,substantiated proof that has come from official investigation as to for example Corbyn and subsequent charges as to same.

The fact,there is none,not a jot,from any official sources,parliamentary watchdog,police or the courts will never see me entertaining anything other, than the allegations being a personal view or feeling,rather than being presented as full actual indisputable fact.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I have to say as well, I do find it personally quite heartbreaking with jet, when his personal experiences and pain are so obvious in ‘anti Corbyn’ posts...and he’s asked for ‘proof’ when that ‘proof’ is right there in everything he writes of his thoughts...and I do understand the need for ‘absolute proof’ also...but there are so many of us who have shared painful, emotional experiences in our lives over time and we can all relate and we can all feel and we do relate and we do feel... but ‘proof’ isn’t always asked for on other topics beyond Jeremy Corbyn...the ‘lack of objectivity’ as it were, isn’t always attached to and applied equally either...

To be fair Ammi, I think most people have been sympathetic to jet's experiences. I know I have and have said as much, and I've never seen people ask him to prove his OWN experiences or provide proof to justify his OWN feelings about Corbyn. However, on top of his own personal feelings, jet can become quite frustrated / annoyed when other people don't join him in his feelings about Corbyn... and that's where people might express a need for some sort of more concrete evidence before making their own minds up.

I mean - I personally was prompted to look at Corbyn more critically due to his posts and now don't particularly like the man... but I still can't find evidence of the more extreme things.

[user104658]

... And while that doesn't invalidate jet's feelings or what jet knows, it is perfectly fair for people to say "I can't base *my* opinions on things that *you* know" and ask for evidence.

[Niamh.]

Jet is a girl

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...but then all of us are quick to dish it out but not so keen on receiving, Brillo.....I mean, our faults make us human and they’re there in all of us...it just feels, and quite often actually to me...that it’s more of a dash it’s Dezzy thing, as opposed to any other moderator who may sometimes be open to criticism also...I hate this whole ‘hypocrisy’ vein of thought anyway in terms of the forum specifically because we’re all hypocrites, each and every one of us...because we’re human and one size doesn’t fit all in every topic or individual stories we tend to discuss...anyways, I must go and start my day, Brillo..

I do agree with much of that Ammi and agree we are all hypocrites at one time or another because as you say we all come with the flaws that come with being a human being.

But as someone who has felt singled-out by Dezzy and ‘friends’ on several occasions I have refused to be intimidated by it and, as such, am not as inclined to be so gracious on this.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Jet is a girl

Microaggression!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair Ammi, I think most people have been sympathetic to jet's experiences. I know I have and have said as much, and I've never seen people ask him to prove his OWN experiences or provide proof to justify his OWN feelings about Corbyn. However, on top of his own personal feelings, jet can become quite frustrated / annoyed when other people don't join him in his feelings about Corbyn... and that's where people might express a need for some sort of more concrete evidence before making their own minds up.

I mean - I personally was prompted to look at Corbyn more critically due to his posts and now don't particularly like the man... but I still can't find evidence of the more extreme things.

..yeah I do realise all of that TS...but I guess what I’m saying quite badly, as I’m prone to ...that Jet isnt the only person (..with very painful personal stuff..)..to become frustrated/annoyed etc, as you say...but more ‘tact’ and more understanding is something I’ve observed with others that haven’t been more focused on ‘Corbyn’...so I also see and understand his frustration and annoyance as well, if that’s what is felt he is showing...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Jet is a girl

...has Mrs Jet been told that yet.....this maybe should be merged with any transgender threads...she’s going to be quite surprised when she reads and finds out...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Microaggression!

I thought she was a he for ages as well, sorry Jet

[Cherie]

Jet is a real woman ( I am saying that in India's voice in my head)

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I do agree with much of that Ammi and agree we are all hypocrites at one time or another because as you say we all come with the flaws that come with being a human being.

But as someone who has felt singled-out by Dezzy and ‘friends’ on several occasions I have refused to be intimidated by it and, as such, am not as inclined to be so gracious on this.

..I’m not being gracious at all, I promise you Brillo, I’m very far from a gracious person and have many flaws also..I do see ‘the forum’ can be unfair to you at times as well...and I do feel that also and feel for you....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Jet is a real woman ( I am saying that in India's voice in my head)

[Crimson Dynamo]

The irony of the thread title

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I thought she was a he for ages as well, sorry Jet

I don't buy it tbh

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

#metoo they touched me on the...

Oh wait this thread is about some other thing. Some kinda whingey nonsense. Never mind. Me too about that as well I guess. What is it we're talking about?

Actually I guess my two cents is what it always is; this is a private forum, the people running it pick the mods, if you don't like their policies then by all means complain about it but if the status quo has been decided then . If the forum staff don't want every SD thread to become a Jezza Corbz thread then that's their business. If the forum staff want to force every thread on every topic to be about a micropiglet wearing a monocle that's their business. No one is being oppressed here. This isn't a public space. You're in someone else's house and if you don't like the game they're playing, you are free to go home. This applies to all of us and is well worth remembering.

That is all well and good but without members it wouldn’t be around for long so it isn’t completely a one-way thing is it. SD certainly woudn’t get much use if only those with one opinion could post. Debate usually involves the expression of differing opinions does it not.

Or is the site to become just a supporter of one political party - just another Corbynista.

[jet]

I really can't post as I have a hell of a migraine, but I just want to say a big thank you to Ammi.

....and to clear it up I am ALL MAN. Even though I cry a lot and Mrs. Jet wears the trousers in our house.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jet

I really can't post as I have a hell of a migraine, but I just want to say a big thank you to Ammi.

....and to clear it up I am ALL MAN. Even though I cry a lot and Mrs. Jet wears the trousers in our house.

I always thought you were a man until someone told me you weren't, I'm really confused now

[Crimson Dynamo]

who else is masquerading as men on her but are actually ladies?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That is all well and good but without members it wouldn’t be around for long so it isn’t completely a one-way thing is it. SD certainly woudn’t get much use if only those with one opinion could post. Debate usually involves the expression of differing opinions does it not.

Or is the site to become just a supporter of one political party - just another Corbynista.

True but again, that's up to the owners to decide, and if they think there's a problem, to take action.

As it stands I don't think there ARE that many passionate "Corbyn fans", no more than there were many "Farage fans" during the Brexit vote. Just a handful of each really.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

who else is masquerading as men on her but are actually ladies?

got you thinking now

[bots]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Although I agree with that in principle doesn’t that just give those that seek to shut down the opinions of others what they want. Isn’t that effectively giving them exactly what they want - free reign without challenge. Mixed feelings on this.

Its not a debate if there are not counter arguments put forward. Threads that are full of people in agreement soon wither and die.

I would say its better not to debate at all than participate in a censored sham pretending to be a debate

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Its not a debate if there are not counter arguments put forward. Threads that are full of people in agreement soon wither and die.

I would say its better not to debate at all than participate in a censored sham pretending to be a debate

Being fair to the mod team, threads have been pulled completely off topic by people who have, essentially, decided that they have no interest in the actual thread topic and have something to say about something else that's far more important or "makes a point". I get the impression that there's been an overall decision to try to stop this from happening, and it's a recent decision, which is going to take some time to "settle" and be implemented in the best way. For example, turning a fairly academic thread about Hitler into "Corbyn moans" I can't accept as anything other than total nonsense. On the other hand, I feel like bringing up Corbyn (or May, or any other high profile politician) in any thread about UK domestic politics is absolutely fair game,so maybe the policy is being implemented too heavy-handedly. I can't say for certain because I can't see which posts were removed.

My only other caveat would be... If its not bringing it up in a way that actually engages with the thread topic, but instead having exactly the same posts and points regurgitated ad nauseum in multiple threads, then is it really adding anything to the debate? If it's just more "whataboutism" then I can't really agree that it does. A full well thought out post, let's say, COMPARING Corbyn to the relevant people mentioned in a thread, whilst still actually discussing the thread topic is totally fine. Completely ignoring the thread topic, making no effort to engage with it, and just saying "Oh yeah well WHAT ABOUT ..." and going off on a tangent, is not really an acceptable part of debate.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Being fair to the mod team, threads have been pulled completely off topic by people who have, essentially, decided that they have no interest in the actual thread topic and have something to say about something else that's far more important or "makes a point". I get the impression that there's been an overall decision to try to stop this from happening, and it's a recent decision, which is going to take some time to "settle" and be implemented in the best way. For example, turning a fairly academic thread about Hitler into "Corbyn moans" I can't accept as anything other than total nonsense. On the other hand, I feel like bringing up Corbyn (or May, or any other high profile politician) in any thread about UK domestic politics is absolutely fair game,so maybe the policy is being implemented too heavy-handedly. I can't say for certain because I can't see which posts were removed.

My only other caveat would be... If its not bringing it up in a way that actually engages with the thread topic, but instead having exactly the same posts and points regurgitated ad nauseum in multiple threads, then is it really adding anything to the debate? If it's just more "whataboutism" then I can't really agree that it does. A full well thought out post, let's say, COMPARING Corbyn to the relevant people mentioned in a thread, whilst still actually discussing the thread topic is totally fine. Completely ignoring the thread topic, making no effort to engage with it, and just saying "Oh yeah well WHAT ABOUT ..." and going off on a tangent, is not really an acceptable part of debate.

The biggest issue I have is that posts were removed under the pretense that they were off topic (which they clearly were not) when they disagreed with the political leanings of those censoring. That is perfectly clear from a mod's responses to being questioned on this very thread.

My choice is to not participate under those conditions, others are free to make their own minds up