[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's some weird refusal to admit it, though, as if doing so is in some way a "defeat". It's more about stubbornness than any sort of desire for equality, though .

Or people just don't think the same as you. Could be that aswell

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Or people just don't think the same as you. Could be that aswell

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Or people just don't think the same as you. Could be that aswell

The general bitterness, snarkiness and sarcasm that often surrounds the issue would suggest otherwise though, surely? That it's just more team-forming and tribalism, "loyalty to the feminism team", and not actually all that concerned with solutions that increase equality. Which is supposedly the aim? It just doesn't seem that self-declared "feminists(tm)" would ever willingly diverge from that, for some reason, all-important label EVEN IF doing so would actually result in increased equality, and more quickly. And if that is the case, then the primary aim of feminism is clearly NOT equality, but rather, something else, if winning the battle is more important than the overall practical outcome.

Feminism HAS become a toxic term, there's vast amounts of evidence that it at this point promotes huge, unhelpful backlash. It's absolutely everywhere. And the huge denial campaign surrounding it is little more than pettiness and point scoring.

"In My Opinion", of course, if it's for some reason still necessary to point out that I am fully aware that "other people think differently".

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The general bitterness, snarkiness and sarcasm that often surrounds the issue would suggest otherwise though, surely? That it's just more team-forming and tribalism, "loyalty to the feminism team", and not actually all that concerned with solutions that increase equality. Which is supposedly the aim? It just doesn't seem that self-declared "feminists(tm)" would ever willingly diverge from that, for some reason, all-important label EVEN IF doing so would actually result in increased equality, and more quickly. And if that is the case, then the primary aim of feminism is clearly NOT equality, but rather, something else, if winning the battle is more important than the overall practical outcome.
.

Like?

What do you think would actually increase equality? Which solutions are you talking about that would bring around change quickly that feminists are ignoring?

Genuinely interested in this.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Like?

What do you think would actually increase equality? Which solutions are you talking about that would bring around change quickly that feminists are ignoring?

Genuinely interested in this.

Redefining an equality movement that actually feels equal for those who currently don't feel like it's equal - even if it IS equal - is essential for the final push in equality. Completely essential. Whether right or wrong, whether those who happily wear the badge of feminism want to believe it or not, the term "feminism", and the idea that males can only support and not be a part of the dialogue, are themselves representation of inequality for many and will generate a degree of backlash.

The important part here is, that is the case whether rightly or wrongly and no amount of face-palming / laughing / insisting on the "real" definition will change that. Which is why in my opinion, clinging to the term is a collective act of defiance and stubbornness - "you can't and won't take this from us!" - rather than any sort of tool for achieving equality.

Why is it all-important? Because at this point, if the dialogue doesn't change, all that is happening is preaching to the choir. Campaign after campaign to gain the support of whom? To raise awareness with whom? The people who already believe in and support equality? its cyclical and pointless. At some point the focus has to shift. And sooner rather than later because, if you take a close look at at, its fairly evident that support is actually already slipping.