[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Just highlighting as if it needed it the absurdity of the claim public services are on their knees. I note the claimant has done a runner..

Lol

How does having a Starbucks in a hospital prove or add anything?

You're deliberately being facetious and you know it.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

Paranoia. That's a pretty hard knee-jerk opinion seeing that you only know me from a forum.

Do whatever you like, but you should know that I won't mind reporting you.

I didn't say you are paranoid, I said there's paranoia in your posts re. me.

I prefer the thread to stay without deletions, including your suspicion of me.

Oh and report away, that's your prerogative.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

How does having a Starbucks in a hospital prove or add anything?

You're deliberately being facetious and you know it.

I didn't say it did I was just taken by its inclusion in such a smart new hospital.

In fact through my father's illness and death I was equally impressed by the NHS service. Just as I am by the childrens brand new academy and my other public services like the roads department during this cold spell

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Just highlighting as if it needed it the absurdity of the claim public services are on their knees. I note the claimant has done a runner..

Lol

Lol, your posts are being absurd. So the winter crisis never happened, people don't wait for hours in a&e, beds are not in corridors, nursing posts are not unfilled, etc etc ad nauseam

Don't know about you, but I have a RL to lead as well as post on here to convince you to get in touch with reality which is quite a boring game, LT.
So fine, argue away that nhs and other services are thriving, not struggling. It's your reputation not mine.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

Paranoia. That's a pretty hard knee-jerk opinion seeing that you only know me from a forum.

Do whatever you like, but you should know that I won't mind reporting you.

I noticed you swerved my last paragraph.
Where is your list of how great things are in public services?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Lol, your posts are being absurd. So the winter crisis never happened, people don't wait for hours in a&e, beds are not in corridors, nursing posts are not unfilled, etc etc ad nauseam

Don't know about you, but I have a RL to lead as well as post on here to convince you to get in touch with reality which is quite a boring game, LT.
So fine, argue away that nhs and other services are thriving, not struggling. It's your reputation not mine.

I'm afraid you made a claim you can't back up and we all can see that. I provided a list of public services and so far you have not dealt with it save some generic statement about a part of the NHS?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Public sector workers are actually paid significantly better than their peers in the private sector – peers whose salaries and businesses pay the taxes that fund government to pay for the public sector in the first place. Accounting for so-called "worker characteristics", public sector pay is around 4 per cent higher.

And this is before you factor in the public sector’s longer holidays, shorter working hours, greater (or effectively total) job security and pension entitlements – which as a rule are considerably more generous.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ly-badly-paid/

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I'm afraid you made a claim you can't back up and we all can see that. I provided a list of public services and so far you have not dealt with it save some generic statement about a part of the NHS?

hello! everybody! I'm so ashamed! LT asked me to prove public services are struggling and I can't be bothered! Which of course means they are not struggling and don't let anybody tell you otherwise and if you see any evidence of such struggles, remember, they don't exist!

Just kill me now, I can't stand this shame

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

hello! everybody! I'm so ashamed! LT asked me to prove public services are struggling and I can't be bothered! Which of course means they are not struggling and don't let anybody tell you otherwise and if you see any evidence of such struggles, remember, they don't exist!

Just kill me now, I can't stand this shame

There is no shame in being wrong, just in failure of admission.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I didn't say it did I was just taken by its inclusion in such a smart new hospital.

In fact through my father's illness and death I was equally impressed by the NHS service. Just as I am by the childrens brand new academy and my other public services like the roads department during this cold spell

So, when in a debate about how effective our public services are you chose to commend them on a completely different company and their lovely coffee.

Forgive me if I don't find coffee and M&S sandwiches a convincing counter argument to the state of the NHS and how much has been taken from the disabled and vulnerable.

I'm glad your father was treated well in his final days. There's a hell of a lot of fantastic staff who do a great job. Making it all of the more shameful that the government are tying their hands behind their backs and trying to destroy it.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There is no shame in being wrong, just in failure of admission.

so tell us other good stories from the sunny uplands of brexit britain
we had budget surplus achieved without public services struggling, but surely there must be more after 7 years of this glorious government

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Every government has their faults, so that means we must applaud the current one and not discuss their faults despite that government being in power and those faults affecting us all in a massive way right here and now? Rubbish.

I didn't say all that, that's all you Marsh.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I didn't say all that, that's all you Marsh.

Well if that's not what you meant then there's absolutely no reason for you to reply to criticisms of the current government with "they've all had their faults". Your comment is irrelevant and meaningless otherwise.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well if that's not what you meant then there's absolutely no reason for you to reply to criticisms of the current government with "they've all had their faults". Your comment is irrelevant and meaningless otherwise.

Oh well thanks for telling me and putting all the words in my mouth for me. I'll just sit over here and let you speak for me shall I?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Oh well thanks for telling me and putting all the words in my mouth for me. I'll just sit over here and let you speak for me shall I?

Well with every reply you're not adding anything but telling me my understanding of your post is wrong.

So, elaborate and discuss it...? You know, a discussion....

[DemolitionRed]

I had to leave the social service side of the NHS because I no longer agreed with its 'duty of care' standards. I couldn't work with a manager who used words like "get rid" when he was talking about patients. Everything was focused on reducing services and passing the buck to the local council who equally can't afford to deal with growing problems of a large aging population.

When you work for the Trust, especially if you're in admin, you know you're working for a private company. All the focus is on number crunching, cutting back on 'unnecessary' services and making profits. Staff aren't employed anymore on yearly contracts, they are employed on 3 month contracts and have to keep re-applying. The pressure to meet unreasonable deadlines is awful, the job often impossible. In the past 5 years its changed massively.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

No, it didn't take you long Kizzy - did it.

No one's 'Baiting' you and no one is 'Tag-Teaming' you.

You really need to lighten up Kizzy.

Then stop with the sniping comments, I won't respond to any more I'll just report them.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I had to leave the social service side of the NHS because I no longer agreed with its 'duty of care' standards. I couldn't work with a manager who used words like "get rid" when he was talking about patients. Everything was focused on reducing services and passing the buck to the local council who equally can't afford to deal with growing problems of a large aging population.

When you work for the Trust, especially if you're in admin, you know you're working for a private company. All the focus is on number crunching, cutting back on 'unnecessary' services and making profits. Staff aren't employed anymore on yearly contracts, they are employed on 3 month contracts and have to keep re-applying. The pressure to meet unreasonable deadlines is awful, the job often impossible. In the past 5 years its changed massively.

I think the second paragraph of you post depends on the Trust. I work closely with a Trust here and their admin staff don't have to re apply every 3 months.

However, I do know of a number of people who feel that things changed dramatically in the NHS during and after Agenda for Change.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I had to leave the social service side of the NHS because I no longer agreed with its 'duty of care' standards. I couldn't work with a manager who used words like "get rid" when he was talking about patients. Everything was focused on reducing services and passing the buck to the local council who equally can't afford to deal with growing problems of a large aging population.

When you work for the Trust, especially if you're in admin, you know you're working for a private company. All the focus is on number crunching, cutting back on 'unnecessary' services and making profits. Staff aren't employed anymore on yearly contracts, they are employed on 3 month contracts and have to keep re-applying. The pressure to meet unreasonable deadlines is awful, the job often impossible. In the past 5 years its changed massively.

My sis is a specialist opmathological nurse and she had to leave for the same reason, they were sending old people away without a referral or follow up effectively knowing by the time they were referred back via a GP there was a good chance they would be blind.

[Kizzy]

'The latest public borrowing data shows that on a 12-month rolling sum basis, the current budget – which excludes capital investment – actually went into surplus in November 2017.'


'However, the IFS stressed on Friday that this improvement did not mean the pain of the cuts already pencilled in for benefits or public spending could – or were likely to be – cancelled simply due to the recent improvement.

“On current policy, ‘austerity’ is far from over,” said Carl Emmerson, deputy director of the IFS.'



Why?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8247226.html

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'The latest public borrowing data shows that on a 12-month rolling sum basis, the current budget – which excludes capital investment – actually went into surplus in November 2017.'


'However, the IFS stressed on Friday that this improvement did not mean the pain of the cuts already pencilled in for benefits or public spending could – or were likely to be – cancelled simply due to the recent improvement.

“On current policy, ‘austerity’ is far from over,” said Carl Emmerson, deputy director of the IFS.'



Why?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8247226.html

Because the gilt side of government spending (which is huge) can no longer rely on new money. I'm not surprised a few big businesses have already gone under and that the government didn't step in to help Carilion. If the government were beyond full capacity by November they would of had to dip into their surplus to help out because they could no longer issue bonds. This, I suspect, is why there was a mad rush by investors to sell shares and buy bonds.

In normal circumstances the government would simply print new money and turn that new money into gilts/bonds which are purchased by investors looking and needing an asset free risk. Because the interest rates are so low on those bonds its a very attractive way of borrowing and for the government, those bonds are a very low security risk for the treasury. When a government can no longer print new money, new bonds dry up, which will happen if we continue to be in the black and this will create a spiral of chaos. The investors will have to turn to more expensive and unreliable borrowing and will likely default on the government debt they already possess.

This is what happened when Clinton celebrated nearly four years of being in the black. Things like subprime mortgages had continued on high risk borrowing and shortly after Bush came into office, they started defaulting on those debts. The sudden fall of the banks had been an accident waiting to happen and the reason we fell with them is because of the pounds ties to the dollar.

I suspect the government believe that if they can turn enough old money (tax payers money and what has created the surplus) into gilts and bonds which they can then sell to investors, they can survive with an ongoing surplus. The problem here is, its the tax payers that will take all responsibility for the bonds market and the only way they can do that is with less public spending.

[DemolitionRed]

We are all being fed a lie and those in precarious situations are about to get more vulnerable still. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-poor-welfare

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

We are all being fed a lie and those in precarious situations are about to get more vulnerable still. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-poor-welfare

The Guardian They thrive on creating a bleak picture under the Tories and spewing their leftist bile. Does anyone really take this paper seriously anymore.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The Guardian They thrive on creating a bleak picture under the Tories and spewing their leftist bile. Does anyone really take this paper seriously anymore.

The answer is yes, more seriously than ever before.
Even Tories publish in the Guardian, May herself wrote a piece a couple of days ago. Of course the paper is still centre-left, but they are not afraid to publish people who don't agree with the editorial line.
Also, The Guardian online is more and more influential globally, especially in the US.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The Guardian They thrive on creating a bleak picture under the Tories and spewing their leftist bile. Does anyone really take this paper seriously anymore.

This is govt policy do you think it would be any different depending on who reports on it?.... No, it would still be exactly the same policies, get some perspective!