[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes I agree, clearly he specifically targeted a gay club as being gay is against their rules, you can see that from comments his father made

That's right it wasn't a train or other public service vehicle with likely all kinds of citizens on it, or a shopping centre, with again an across the board mix of the communities.
It was an identifiable gay club, where he knew for certain 'likely' all or near all the people there at that time were of the gay community only.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

Then why did he have a profile on a gay dating app?

I just saw that now, jeez weird, must be him trying to ease the shame he felt for being gay and muslim and with a dad who sounds very much like he wouldn't except a gay son? :/

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

Then why did he have a profile on a gay dating app?

Because most militant homophobes are people with severe self loathing issues.

To deny that this is an attack on LBGT is to deny reality.

He targeted gay people in a gay club during Pride Month. It was both a hate crime and act of terror (as all these mass shootings are, regardless of race or creed).

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because most militant homophobes are people with severe self loathing issues.

To deny that this is an attack on LBGT is to deny reality.

He targeted gay people in a gay club during Pride Month. It was both a hate crime and act of terror (as all these mass shootings are, regardless of race or creed).

You said it much better than I did. I agree.

[Tom4784]

I don't honestly believe this to be a religious issue, reports have said that the shooter wasn't particularly religious, he most likely used it as justification to mask the real reason which was that his homophobia stemmed from being unable to accept his own sexuality.

[ThriceShy]

This LA Times article sheds a bit of new light on it:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...nap-story.html

A high school acquaintance recalled that Mateen was a “regular dude” until the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

“He started acting crazy, joking around the fact that 9/11 happened, making plane noises on the school bus and pretending he was slamming into the building,” said Robert Zirkle, who rode the school bus every day with Mateen in Stuart, Fla., 15 years ago.

“He was happy that Americans were dying. He made that very clear. I don’t know if he was always a Muslim radical, but he was excited, hyped up. We were all, like, ‘What are you talking about?’” Zirkle recalled.

So 15 years ago he was celebrating americans dying in 9/11.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't honestly believe this to be a religious issue, reports have said that the shooter wasn't particularly religious, he most likely used it as justification to mask the real reason which was that his homophobia stemmed from being unable to accept his own sexuality.

Then why did he celebrate americans dying on 9/11, 15 years earlier?

Sounds to me like he was an islamic radical who wanted to kill americans and the gay people in the club just happened to be where he hung out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't honestly believe this to be a religious issue, reports have said that the shooter wasn't particularly religious, he most likely used it as justification to mask the real reason which was that his homophobia stemmed from being unable to accept his own sexuality.

Yeah it does sound like that now with these revelations about his own sexuality. I did wonder why his father would be so vocal about it earlier, most families want to be kept far out of the spot light after something like this. Seems he's pretty bothered by the world knowing his son was gay :/

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah it does sound like that now with these revelations about his own sexuality. I did wonder why his father would be so vocal about it earlier, most families want to be kept far out of the spot light after something like this. Seems he's pretty bothered by the world knowing his son was gay :/

There is absolutely no evidence he targetted these people because they were gay. That couple in San Bernardino ended up killing people he had worked with for 5 years.

The fact that he pledged allegiance to ISIS and was already known to the FBI as a radical, and had already said 15 years earlier that he was glad americans died in 9/11, tells us that this was an islamic terrorist attack.

The fact that he may be gay or his victims are is incidental.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

Then why did he celebrate americans dying on 9/11, 15 years earlier?

Sounds to me like he was an islamic radical who wanted to kill americans and the gay people in the club just happened to be where he hung out.

That report doesn't really fit into what every other report has been saying though. He wasn't religious, he didn't have any ties to any known terror groups and it seems strange that he could be so openly happy about 9/11 without anyone raising an issue about it until now.

It's a bit of a dubious report when you compare it to everything else we know.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

There is absolutely no evidence he targetted these people because they were gay. That couple in San Bernardino ended up killing people he had worked with for 5 years.

The fact that he pledged allegiance to ISIS and was already known to the FBI as a radical, and had already said 15 years earlier that he was glad americans died in 9/11, tells us that this was an islamic terrorist attack.

The fact that he may be gay or his victims are is incidental.

I disagree with that and I doubt there is anyway to prove whether he specifically choose the club because it was a gay club or because he was familiar with it now anyway.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

There is absolutely no evidence he targetted these people because they were gay. That couple in San Bernardino ended up killing people he had worked with for 5 years.

The fact that he pledged allegiance to ISIS and was already known to the FBI as a radical, and had already said 15 years earlier that he was glad americans died in 9/11, tells us that this was an islamic terrorist attack.

The fact that he may be gay or his victims are is incidental.

Even if you are right and it was entirely motivated by him being a religious extremist... the fact that the victims were gay is far from "incidental" and his own sexuality is even more relevant? Are you unaware of the attitudes that ISIS (and let's be blunt, all Abrahamic religions when followed to the word) hold towards homosexuality?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

There is absolutely no evidence he targetted these people because they were gay. That couple in San Bernardino ended up killing people he had worked with for 5 years.

The fact that he pledged allegiance to ISIS and was already known to the FBI as a radical, and had already said 15 years earlier that he was glad americans died in 9/11, tells us that this was an islamic terrorist attack.

The fact that he may be gay or his victims are is incidental.

You must not be paying attention if you believe that, you must only be cherry picking reports that suit your 'ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL' agenda.

This is an attack on the LGBT community, it's ****ing DISGRACEFUL to minimise that fact to justify your own ****ing hatred.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That report doesn't really fit into what every other report has been saying though. He wasn't religious, he didn't have any ties to any known terror groups and it seems strange that he could be so openly happy about 9/11 without anyone raising an issue about it until now.

It's a bit of a dubious report when you compare it to everything else we know.

It fits in perfectly with everything we know. He was a known islamic extremist, who the FBI had physically surveiled and they had interviewed him 3 times. He pledged allegiance to ISIS before carrying out the attack. And he was known in his youth to celebrate 9/11 and be glad americans were dead.

All of that points to an islamic terror attack. And the authorities in america are all treating it as one.

To claim this is about gays is like claiming the Bataclan killers did it because they didn't like the music of the band that were playing.

It is a red herring. The left, IMO, are having difficulty resolving this as they spend equal amounts of time campaigning for muslims and gay people and this has really confused them.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You must not be paying attention if you believe that, you must only be cherry picking reports that suit your 'ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL' agenda.

This is an attack on the LGBT community, it's ****ing DISGRACEFUL to minimise that fact to justify your own ****ing hatred.

I haven't claimed anywhere that all muslims are evil. Just that this particular one was a terrorist who hated americans. And the FBI and all other law enforcement and judiciary in america agree with me.

I am surprised that people want to paint him as just a self-loathing gay guy as that reflects quite badly on the gay community. If I was in the LGBT community, I would be wanting this to be an extremist, not one of my own.

All evidence points to him being an islamic terrorist. This isn't just me saying this. The authorities involved are too. You haven't shown me anything to make me disbelieve them.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

It fits in perfectly with everything we know. He was a known islamic extremist, who the FBI had physically surveiled and they had interviewed him 3 times. He pledged allegiance to ISIS before carrying out the attack. And he was known in his youth to celebrate 9/11 and be glad americans were dead.

All of that points to an islamic terror attack. And the authorities in america are all treating it as one.

To claim this is about gays is like claiming the Bataclan killers did it because they didn't like the music of the band that were playing.

It is a red herring. The left, IMO, are having difficulty resolving this as they spend equal amounts of time campaigning for muslims and gay people and this has really confused them.

Pathetic, honestly pathetic.

I'm disgusted by your attitude, you are so willing to deny that this is a hate crime targeted at the LGBT community, to downplay their suffering and loss just so you can go on an BIGOTED anti-islamic tirade. Disgusting.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't honestly believe this to be a religious issue, reports have said that the shooter wasn't particularly religious, he most likely used it as justification to mask the real reason which was that his homophobia stemmed from being unable to accept his own sexuality.

People associate themselves with causes to justify their actions. I mean that's actually what ISIS do all the time. Its a means of saying we can be as abhorrent as we want, but they still always pick on the defenseless rather than those that can defend themselves

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

I haven't claimed anywhere that all muslims are evil. Just that this particular one was a terrorist who hated americans. And the FBI and all other law enforcement and judiciary in america agree with me.

I am surprised that people want to paint him as just a self-loathing gay guy as that reflects quite badly on the gay community. If I was in the LGBT community, I would be wanting this to be an extremist, not one of my own.

All evidence points to him being an islamic terrorist. This isn't just me saying this. The authorities involved are too. You haven't shown me anything to make me disbelieve them.

Sounds to me like it's both, a self loathing terrorist

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Even if you are right and it was entirely motivated by him being a religious extremist... the fact that the victims were gay is far from "incidental" and his own sexuality is even more relevant? Are you unaware of the attitudes that ISIS (and let's be blunt, all Abrahamic religions when followed to the word) hold towards homosexuality?

It could possibly have been a factor. But to claim this wasn't a terrorist attack and was simply a self loathing gay guy killing gays and masking it with islamism, is just ludicrous.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Pathetic, honestly pathetic.

I'm disgusted by your attitude, you are so willing to deny that this is a hate crime targeted at the LGBT community, to downplay their suffering and loss just so you can go on an BIGOTED anti-islamic tirade. Disgusting.

Why are you personally attacking me? I haven't resorted to that.

I don't believe that this is about homosexuality. I just think it was a convenient target for his long term, proven extremism and hatred of americans.

Yes, he may have picked a gay club as he dislikes gays particularly but in the grand scheme of things, it isn't relevant. PEOPLE are dead because of this clown. I don't care what sexuality they were and I don't see why it matters.

[Cherie]

Apparently he visited the club about a dozen times, just because he had a gay dating app and visited the club doesn't mean he is automatically gay, he may have just been researching his target, until someone comes forward to say he was in a gay relationship with them we have no evidence to say he was. The 9/11 pilots weren't pilots, they just trained as pilots to carry out their attack, they weren't ferrying tourists and business people around the globe

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sounds to me like it's both, a self loathing terrorist

It's a possibility. People are usually more than one-dimensional. However, this WAS an islamic terrorist attack. The FBI say it is and until I see something compelling then I am going to believe them. They are pretty good at what they do.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

It could possibly have been a factor. But to claim this wasn't a terrorist attack and was simply a self loathing gay guy killing gays and masking it with islamism, is just ludicrous.

Originally Posted by ThriceShy

It's a possibility. People are usually more than one-dimensional. However, this WAS an islamic terrorist attack. The FBI say it is and until I see something compelling then I am going to believe them. They are pretty good at what they do.

You seem to be sort of stuck on it being one or the other; it's likely that the very reason for his self-loathing is that him and his family are skewed towards the religious extreme. On top if that, ISIS are already well known for targetting gay people in their attacks. You seem to think that "All Americans" and "Homosexual Americans" are indistinguishable to these extremists. They are not. The west's acceptance of homosexuality and gay communities is one of the specific reasons that ISIS hates the west in the first place.

Suggesting that he just "happened to know" the club or that it was "just the place he stumbled into" is utterly ridiculous. Whatever his larger motivation, there is no question that the attack was targetted against people that he, for whatever reason, specifically hated for their sexuality. It is uttely blinkered to argue otherwise.

[ThriceShy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You seem to be sort of stuck on it being one or the other; it's likely that the very reason for his self-loathing is that him and his family are skewed towards the religious extreme. On top if that, ISIS are already well known for targetting gay people in their attacks. You seem to think that "All Americans" and "Homosexual Americans" are indistinguishable to these extremists. They are not. The west's acceptance of homosexuality and gay communities is one of the specific reasons that ISIS hates the west in the first place.

Suggesting that he just "happened to know" the club or that it was "just the place he stumbled into" is utterly ridiculous. Whatever his larger motivation, there is no question that the attack was targetted against people that he, for whatever reason, specifically hated for their sexuality. It is uttely blinkered to argue otherwise.

What gave you that idea? Was it when I said that the homophobia was possibly an aspect of it and that people are more than one dimensional?

You have no evidence that he specifically targeted this club because he hated gays. If he had attacked a straight club, would you have claimed he targeted them because of their sexuality?


It is a wrong assumption. It could be true but you have no evidence for it right now. Everything points to this being a regular haunt for him and mass shooters tend to shoot up places they know.

[Glenn.]

Can we close this thread now. It's making me feel sick