[Stu]

Mind you our idea of democracy is a sham too. One vote per one person should litteraly mean what it implies. The people ask for something and they get it. Instead we just pick a puppet who then more or less makes most of the decisions for us. It's still a ruling elite, only we get to pick them.

None of us are really completely free. We just have the illusion of freedom. We are the most free, but that's about it.

[Tom]

Communism just makes aspirations pointless. Might as well get on the dole instead of attempting a career

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by angus58

There ARE other choices, but the only realistic hope of getting this corrupt New Labour government out of power is to vote Tory. Unfortunately I think a lot of voters will vote for LibDems so we could end up with a hung parliament. I truly believe another term of New Labour will put the final nail in the coffin so far as this country is concerned.

New Labour turned out to be the same old labour with a sexed up new image, and using the same old strategies as always, unrestricted borrowing and spending. Even if we get them out we will be left with a legacy of massive debt that will take decades to repay.

They have also shown themselves to be the most corrupt and dishonest government in living memory, leading us into an illegal war with lies and deceit, that has left Britain vulnerable to global terrorism on a scale we have never faced before.

Meanwhile Blair remains unapologetic and he and his vile harridan of a wife are self servingly exploiting their "celebrity" to line their pockets, whilst we have been left with an unelected and criminally inept Prime Minister who, with his henchmen Mandelson and Darling, cling on to power to the bitter end.

Voting Tory is only asking for more of the same. They are opportunists not to be trusted as far as they can be thrown. Refusing to vote is the only real act of defiance.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

Voting Tory is only asking for more of the same. They are opportunists not to be trusted as far as they can be thrown. Refusing to vote is the only real act of defiance.

If you don't want to exercise your democratic right to vote, then you have no business to whinge and complain about whichever government gets in. If no-one voted then anarchy would prevail. It is impossible to accommodate the wishes of EVERY individual since one person's rights and desires will always infringe on someone else's. Democracy, for better or worse, is the only fair way to govern - "The greatest good for the greatest number" (Jeremy Bentham). Not voting is not an act of defiance, its a cop out. All it demonstrates is apathy. If you don't want the Tories to win the next election vote for some other party or start your own!

[Stu]

I hate that argument. You have every right to compain even if you don't vote. Nobody should be forced to vote from the best of a bad bunch just to be able to complain.

Anarchy sounds pretty good to me.

[Angus]

Do you then advocate no government at all, and a state of chaos, disorder and lawlessness?
This seems to always be the typical response from people who rubbish the current electoral system and government, but have no valid or viable alternative propositions that would actually improve the quality of our lives and ensure fair distribution of resources. Anarchy, in theory, could work if there was collective agreement about goods, services and distribution thereof, etc, but how would such collective collaboration come about in a fractured and segregated society like the one in which we now all live? We don't all share the same goals, aspirations and values. There would probably be civil unrest, even war, where stronger factions would crush the weaker with no opposition or consequences.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by angus58

Do you then advocate no government at all, and a state of chaos, disorder and lawlessness?
This seems to always be the typical response from people who rubbish the current electoral system and government, but have no valid or viable alternative propositions that would actually improve the quality of our lives and ensure fair distribution of resources. Anarchy, in theory, could work if there was collective agreement about goods, services and distribution thereof, etc, but how would such collective collaboration come about in a fractured and segregated society like the one in which we now all live? We don't all share the same goals, aspirations and values. There would probably be civil unrest, even war, where stronger factions would crush the weaker with no opposition or consequences.

Of course I don't advocate a state of chaos, disorder and lawlessness. Don't you think you are being a little unrational here? I can still rubbish all the current options while not providing an alternative. That's not my job. I'm not a political theologist. It's entirely within my right to be unhappy with all the present options on the table and to thus not vote. I do vote, mind you, but I'm talking in theory here.

And for the record, yes, I do believe a certain system of Anarchy would be the closest thing we would get to keeping everyone happy. Democracy seems to cause it's fair share of civil unrest and war too.

And obviously I am realistic and I realise that a vision of an incredibly co-operative anarchic state is far too idyllic a proposition given the human condition. The love of power outweights the power of love.