[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

He'll say anything for votes. His reign so far has been shambolic and the sooner we can kick him and Clegg out the better.

As will every politician though in fairness

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

As will every politician though in fairness

It's all pointless now, It's been the same for years. We try to pick the best out of a bad bunch each time but even then crap is still crap. We've got a snake and a turncoat with his tongue wedged firmly in the snake's arse now. I think I prefer Gordon Brown.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's all pointless now, It's been the same for years. We try to pick the best out of a bad bunch each time but even then crap is still crap. We've got a snake and a turncoat with his tongue wedged firmly in the snake's arse now. I think I prefer Gordon Brown.

Yeah it's just become a case of trying to pick the lesser evil, the opposition party will always be offering all the answers and then you vote them in and they fail to live up to their promises. People talk about Clegg breaking promises and not living up to his word - which obviously he hasnt - but the Tories are just as guilty.

I think I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with politics tbh, I dont intend to vote for any of the main three when I become eligible

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

He'll say anything for votes. His reign so far has been shambolic and the sooner we can kick him and Clegg out the better.

Yeah, cos we all really wanted another 5 years of overspending, mass immigration, and the cancer that is political correctness to spread even further into our daily lives restricting our freedoms. Cameron was voted in by the electorate on the mandate that he would clear up the economic mess left by Labour (hence the need for savage and inevitable cuts) and tackle the shambolic immigration system that has led to a society where people live in isolation from one another (hence this latest initiative). It's not like it's a surprise now is it?

Labour couldn't get enough votes to even form a coalition. LibDems got a pitiful amount of seats so clearly the majority of the electorate were left unimpressed, and they're bloody lucky to have any say at all now.

Like it or not the Tories won the most seats, which shows that there's a hell of a lot of people who don't want the asylum run by the lunatics any more.
Tough if those who support the Labour Party don't like it - the rest of us have had to bide our time for 13 long years as we watched in frustration and despair as Labour ran our country into the ground. I shudder to think what would happen if Milliband, the Union's puppet, were to ever be voted in. You could kiss democracy goodbye as the country would be held to ransom by the bully boys.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yeah, cos we all really wanted another 5 years of overspending, mass immigration, and the cancer that is political correctness to spread even further into our daily lives restricting our freedoms. Cameron was voted in by the electorate on the mandate that he would clear up the economic mess left by Labour (hence the need for savage and inevitable cuts) and tackle the shambolic immigration system that has led to a society where people live in isolation from one another (hence this latest initiative). It's not like it's a surprise now is it?

Labour couldn't get enough votes to even form a coalition. LibDems got a pitiful amount of seats so clearly the majority of the electorate were left unimpressed, and they're bloody lucky to have any say at all now.

Like it or not the Tories won the most seats, which shows that there's a hell of a lot of people who don't want the asylum run by the lunatics any more.
Tough if those who support the Labour Party don't like it - the rest of us have had to bide our time for 13 long years as we watched in frustration and despair as Labour ran our country into the ground. I shudder to think what would happen if Milliband, the Union's puppet, were to ever be voted in. You could kiss democracy goodbye as the country would be held to ransom by the bully boys.

You make the right judgements on some of Labours failure Angus58, I however do not think at this time David Camerons comments are helpful and may well increase tensions and suspicions on both sides of the Immigration debate.
It is an issue I believe should not be a party political one,so I would prefer to see 'all' parties working on the issue together.

Your analysis of the Election is a fair one however I would have to say,this being the first election I was voting in, I looked back and researched past elections and from the so called chaos of the Labour govt and the failure of Gordon Brown as a leader, I remain stunned the Conservatives didn't walk this election,clearly the voters didn't like what they were offering and nearly two thirds of voters (just under 64%) voted against the Conservatives and voted for other parties who all in the main had similar policies.
For my sins I voted Lib Dem but will never do so again or trust them again.

It is also a fact David Cameron does concede this problem has been there for 30 years at least,also likely getting worse under Labour,but in those 30 years plus, there has been firstly 18 years of unbroken Conservative govt and then 13 years of unbroken Labour govt.

Well, to me putting it simply,if both the main parties cannot get most or all right in that time with 2 periods of longevity of govt with good overall majorities, then they are both serving the Country badly and really neither deserve to govern again unbridled.

As I said earlier in this thread, I think this Country is treated very badly by whoever gets into power and like Dezzy I have to say I am already massively disillusioned with politicians,its even possible that this coalition is shaping up to cause at least as much devastation as the last govt did.

The problem being that they listen to get the votes but then do what they like and stop listening once they have the votes and power.

Back on topic though, I believe its time that immigration was taken out of party politics altogether and that consensus on policy is worked on rather than dangerous whims of popular rather inappropriate language from any single party or leader.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

Yeah, cos we all really wanted another 5 years of overspending, mass immigration, and the cancer that is political correctness to spread even further into our daily lives restricting our freedoms. Cameron was voted in by the electorate on the mandate that he would clear up the economic mess left by Labour (hence the need for savage and inevitable cuts) and tackle the shambolic immigration system that has led to a society where people live in isolation from one another (hence this latest initiative). It's not like it's a surprise now is it?

Labour couldn't get enough votes to even form a coalition. LibDems got a pitiful amount of seats so clearly the majority of the electorate were left unimpressed, and they're bloody lucky to have any say at all now.

Like it or not the Tories won the most seats, which shows that there's a hell of a lot of people who don't want the asylum run by the lunatics any more.
Tough if those who support the Labour Party don't like it - the rest of us have had to bide our time for 13 long years as we watched in frustration and despair as Labour ran our country into the ground. I shudder to think what would happen if Milliband, the Union's puppet, were to ever be voted in. You could kiss democracy goodbye as the country would be held to ransom by the bully boys.

If you believe Cameron's any better then Brown then you're a fool. They're all self serving snakes. We haven't had a worthy PM in years.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If you believe Cameron's any better then Brown then you're a fool. They're all self serving snakes. We haven't had a worthy PM in years.

I am delighted that the Tories are in power, and I sure ain't no fool. The fools are the morons who voted BLAIR's government back in even after he had led us into an ILLEGAL war only to see him then hand over the leadership (without so much as a "by your leave" to the electorate) to an incompetent,dangerous unelected idiot.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by angus58

I am delighted that the Tories are in power, and I sure ain't no fool. The fools are the morons who voted BLAIR's government back in even after he had led us into an ILLEGAL war only to see him then hand over the leadership (without so much as a "by your leave" to the electorate) to an incompetent,dangerous unelected idiot.

Labour, Liberal Democrats, Tories. They're all the same beast. Not one of those parties are fit to lead the UK and none of them have offered up a worthy candidate since before I was born. To throw your support behind one while deriding another is foolish, It's like being chased by three big animals that want to eat you but favouring one in particular, they won't thank you for your support and they'll still end up killing and eating you whether you like them or not.

...not the most elegant metaphor but still. The Tories will end up f*cking everyone over just like labour did. It's all the same and there's no point taking part in it since it's just the same thing over and over again. Cameron won't keep any promises, and he'll keep saying buzzwords and phrases 'immigration limits' 'Multiculturism has failed' in order to lure the fools out of their armchairs to take part in the farce they call a vote. It's all empty words and he's just like the rest of them. F*CKING USELESS. I'm sick of the mediocrity we're made to suffer, where's the REAL PMs? I've had enough of the Jesters ruling the court.

[Tom4784]

I'm not gonna vote anymore myself, I wanna vote for a prime minister not the dregs of semen that regurlarly get offered up.

[Angus]

No party is perfect, but as far as I'm concerned the Tories are the lesser of all evils. Clearly a lot of other people thought so too, since neither Labour or the LibDems convinced enough of the electorate to vote for them - in fact put the total of the seats they polled together and it was still not enough for them to form a coalition.

I, for one, am horrified at the recklessness of the Labour Party who completely lost control of our borders during their time in office. I need to know that any party in power is going to tackle the problem, and as for "dangerous whims of popular rather inappropriate language", what exactly does that mean? That we must pussyfoot and skirt around the nitty gritty of such a serious and contentious issue as immigration, for fear of offending WHO precisely? People like Sadiq Khan screaming "racism" everytime anyone has the audacity to mention the subject are completely unhelpful and hinder any meaningful cross party attempts to reach a consensus.

The fact is that we are a small island with finite resources which can only stretch so far. The social infrastructure necessary to support the numbers that have been settling in this country is totally inadequate, resulting in an unfair distribution of limited resouces. It is in everybody's interest to get some sort of handle on the situation, since Labour's irresponsible solution was to just leave the doors open, whilst throwing more and more borrowed money at the problem. I've yet to hear any viable alternative solutions from anyone opposing Cameron's proposals.

[MTVN]

And what exactly is Cameron's proposals? The majority of immigration to Britain recently has been from European countries, he is completely powerless to stop that with us being a member of the EU and will not stop that. The only thing he is claiming to be able to do is cap the number of non-EU immigrants, a cap that he is yet to give a figure on. It is also the workers from outside the EU that are often the most skilled, and are also often students, they are the ones providing the most benefit to this country.

[joeysteele]

Dangerous in that not carefully worded or planned statements can fuel suspicion,lso between peoples living in this Country, further afield in the rest of the World some of what David Cameron vaguely stated could be taken as an attack on certain peoples and faiths which could fuel even more hatred.

No one party has the answers to this problem,the whims part of my post is in my opinion David Camerons bad judgement on not actually being able to spell out clearly to everyone else just what his proposals may be, could be or should be,albeit in the absence of even him likely not knowing what his proposals really are himself yet.

Immigration is too big an issue for one man or one party to solve in a consensual and practically correct way, as is rightly pointed out, Labour made a mess of this when in power, but so did the Conservatives before them for near 18 years in power.

I would have much more respect and faith in a leader who said, this issue needs to be sorted once and for all,not from one ideological point of view or policy but from full consensus and agreement with all the UK parties,that would be a statement that would command respect and support rather than looking for short term political gain from a badly made and badly planned stab at Immigration like this with no meat to the bone.

That should be the case for all political parties and leaders in my opinion,its not an appropriate game to play politics with this issue.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Dangerous in that not carefully worded or planned statements can fuel suspicion,lso between peoples living in this Country, further afield in the rest of the World some of what David Cameron vaguely stated could be taken as an attack on certain peoples and faiths which could fuel even more hatred.

No one party has the answers to this problem,the whims part of my post is in my opinion David Camerons bad judgement on not actually being able to spell out clearly to everyone else just what his proposals may be, could be or should be,albeit in the absence of even him likely not knowing what his proposals really are himself yet.

Immigration is too big an issue for one man or one party to solve in a consensual and practically correct way, as is rightly pointed out, Labour made a mess of this when in power, but so did the Conservatives before them for near 18 years in power.

I would have much more respect and faith in a leader who said, this issue needs to be sorted once and for all,not from one ideological point of view or policy but from full consensus and agreement with all the UK parties,that would be a statement that would command respect and support rather than looking for short term political gain from a badly made and badly planned stab at Immigration like this with no meat to the bone.

That should be the case for all political parties and leaders in my opinion,its not an appropriate game to play politics with this issue.

Unfortunately, that's not how politics work or ever will work. The ideological divide between the Labour Party and the Tories is unbridgeable. Are you saying that Labour's policy of unrestricted mass immigration is just as bad as that of the previous Tory policy of controlled immigration. Are you suggesting that neither policy is viable, or do you back one over the other?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by angus58

Unfortunately, that's not how politics work or ever will work. The ideological divide between the Labour Party and the Tories is unbridgeable. Are you saying that Labour's policy of unrestricted mass immigration is just as bad as that of the previous Tory policy of controlled immigration. Are you suggesting that neither policy is viable, or do you back one over the other?

I don't back either of them in full, I believe Immigration is an issue that should be above party politics, I think all parties of the UK with elected MPs should have input to Immigration policy and since single party plans have failed with both main parties for decades its time they were made to form consensus policy on this issue.

If the statis quo of single party politics on this issue continues then just as it has for decades now it will fail and fail everytime.
Cameron has not got the answer with his party alone, the Lib Dems have not either and definately Lbaour has not but there should be enough brains in all those parties to get Immigration out of party politics so party point scoring cannot be done on this issue thereby ensuring failure of all that's tried.

I actually think there is now little to choose between the main parties except for the cuts programme and the NHS. On immigration and the fact its such a sensitive issue its time all the parties got heads together not tongues yelling nonsense at each other now.
These are very different times from over 30 years ago.

[letmein]

Cameron was NOT voted in by the electorate. God, how can you people not know how voting works in the UK??! With everything supposedly bad that Labour did, the Tories still could not get a majority. The public wasn't buying what they were selling.

This "multicuturalism is bad" meme, is only going to show the rest of the world that the UK can no longer tout itself as a progressive society. That will go straight to the Americans, who have made it work to their benifit. It's not perfect there, but they've made it work incredibly for generations.

The UK is a Nanny State. Everyone needs to be babyproofed from everything. No one can think for themselves. The UK has a lot to learn from the Americans. Get a grip peeps! You've turned into a bunch of whiny babies. Now go cry to Ofcom!

[joeysteele]

[QUOTE=letmein;4099396]Cameron was NOT voted in by the electorate. God, how can you people not know how voting works in the UK??! With everything supposedly bad that Labour did, the Tories still could not get a majority. The public wasn't buying what they were selling.



I absolutely agree with the above. In fact from the 1997 election according to the figures when the Conservatives fell to just over 30% in the polls in the whole 13 years following they could only get to just over 36% in the 2010 election.64% nearly two thirds of those who voted voting against them,the main opposition.
Hardly an endorsement of any kind at all to them.

[Angus]

I am very pleased that the majority of Labour MPs have distanced themselves from Khan and refused to back his inflammatory accusations of racism - perhaps being kicked out of office have given them the time to get back in touch with reality.

I am delighted too that Trevor Phillips has praised Cameron's speech. Phillips has been saying for a while that it's about time the Government tackled this issue.

[Harry!]

I am not being racist but when I went down town on sunday there was more foriegn people then I had ever seen down town before.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Harry!

I am not being racist but when I went down town on sunday there was more foriegn people then I had ever seen down town before.

Yes, you are racist. You have the right to be, but don't pretend that you're not.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by letmein

Yes, you are racist. You have the right to be, but don't pretend that you're not.

It's people like you who make it worse for the people who do actually have to suffer from racism. You can't just bat it around with every comment made

[Harry!]

Originally Posted by letmein

Yes, you are racist. You have the right to be, but don't pretend that you're not.

There wasnt many but there was more then I had seen before. Thats all. I repect forigners in the UK as long as they stay in the law and do not come to our country illigally (Taking money and jobs).

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Harry!

There wasnt many but there was more then I had seen before. Thats all. I repect forigners in the UK as long as they stay in the law and do not come to our country illigally (Taking money and jobs).

Take no notice of the race card punters - you are in good company in your observations: Trevor Phillips has been making similar observations and statements for a while now but no-one dare accuse HIM of racism I would have thought, too, that Phillips is in poll position to actually know what he's talking about regarding numbers, as opposed to the fake statistics we were force fed by the outgoing Labour scum trying to cover up their years of incompetence on this issue.

[Beastie]

France is an "EU" country. It is bigger than the UK but yet has dramatially a lot less people living in it. I don't get why some people don't immigrate to France? The UK is not the only rich EU country....

Our country is too lenient and needs to be more strict.

Edit - Oh there is about the same population in France as there is in the UK but there is still a lot less people living per square mile in France than there is in the UK..

[Livia]

The turnout for the general election was pretty low. If everyone who moaned, voted... the outcome might have been different.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

The turnout for the general election was pretty low. If everyone who moaned, voted... the outcome might have been different.

It doesn't matter who won, that's the point. All the candidates were spineless and impotent leaders. Give me a PM and I'll vote for them, I'm not voting again if these candidates are the only options. I want real leaders, not cumstains.