[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Possession shouldnt be illegal anyways, but thats a whole other story

From my experience, you are MUCH less likely to be violent or anything on drugs anyways. Personally I just go into my own happy little world and talk a load of ****e.

I agree, alcohol tends to make people far more violent and aggressive but you always hear people say "Oh, he must have been on something"! eh no he was drunk.........

[Stu]

I do love that happy little world.

[Tom.]

Rehabilitation is what drug addicts need, not locking up. Some people are beyond help, in which case the NHS should start withdrawing funding for drug related illnesses.

Locking them up will lead to increases in incarcerated suicide and if the prisons will help them then it defeats the object of the help, because it could be done willingly in a hospital environment and not forcefully in a prison environment. There would be a higher liklihood of a relapse in a prison environment because people would have the mentality to get clean so they can get out.

If people don't want the help its up to them, its their health they're damaging but linking back to the start of the post, if thats the case then that person shouldn't be allowed treatment for drug related illnesses on the NHS.

[Stu]

The prison system is awash with drugs anyway. It's like sending a wino to a speakeasy.

Drugs should be treated as purely a health matter. Not a judicial one. If someone on drugs commits an act that infringes on the rights of others then yes, the act itself should be treated as a criminal matter.

[Grimnir]

Originally Posted by Shasown

A reasonable argument I suppose, unfortunately its not backed up by any evidence whatsoever.

If you educated yourself on the subject, lets say for example going onto the Ministry of Justices website and looking at re offending rates, you would know that prisoners who serve in the more harsher regimes within the prison system have higher re-offending rates.

The lowest re-offending rates within the whole justice system occur when the criminal is involved with some form of community work and rehabilitating education. Either in or out of prison.

who do you think you are telling people to educate themselves as if you are some all knowing wise monk, stop being condescending

your logic is all screwed up on reasons for re offending rates

the reason the more hardline prisoners have a higher re offending rate is not because they served sentence in the "harsher regime" it is because they are more hardline criminals! that is why they are there in the first place

the ones with low re offending rates taking part in community service are the lower level criminals so naturally there is a much greater chance they will not repeat offend once they are released

to lower the re offending rate, hardline criminals should be given much longer sentences and prison be made more punishing (no violence and torture as you exaggerated)
if they are in prison for longer, which they should be anyway, they cannot commit crimes can they
if the prison is a hellhole then they are much less likely to re offend as they will not want to go back ever
and the threat of going to a hellhole prison will lower crime rates

[Tom.]

But it isn't necessarily a conscience decision whether you'll reoffend or not. Some people are just predispositioned to crime.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

who do you think you are telling people to educate themselves as if you are some all knowing wise monk, stop being condescending

your logic is all screwed up on reasons for re offending rates

the reason the more hardline prisoners have a higher re offending rate is not because they served sentence in the "harsher regime" it is because they are more hardline criminals! that is why they are there in the first place

the ones with low re offending rates taking part in community service are the lower level criminals so naturally there is a much greater chance they will not repeat offend once they are released

to lower the re offending rate, hardline criminals should be given much longer sentences and prison be made more punishing (no violence and torture as you exaggerated)
if they are in prison for longer, which they should be anyway, they cannot commit crimes can they
if the prison is a hellhole then they are much less likely to re offend as they will not want to go back ever
and the threat of going to a hellhole prison will lower crime rates

There really is no limit to the depths of your ignorance is there? I take it from your answer you didnt go to the Ministry of Justice's site?

All prisons have different regimes, practically no two prisons are run the same, nor do they have the same facilities. Classes, rehabilitation & work courses and facilities all vary.

I mentioned community work not community service I also used the term rehabilitation education, you know seeing crime from the victims point of view, anger management etc.

The categories of prisons have more to do with security measures imposed not about the regime inside a prison.

Hardline prisoners who were guilty of serious crimes like murder etc are often released under a condition called life license. If they offend again they go back in.

What violence and torture did I exaggerate?

Prisoners can and do commit crimes in prison.

Incidentally its not my logic on re offending rates its the Ministry of Justice's own figures not mine. I didnt post them on their site.

[Grimnir]

Originally Posted by Shasown

There really is no limit to the depths of your ignorance is there? I take it from your answer you didnt go to the Ministry of Justice's site?

All prisons have different regimes, practically no two prisons are run the same, nor do they have the same facilities. Classes, rehabilitation & work courses and facilities all vary.

I mentioned community work not community service I also used the term rehabilitation education, you know seeing crime from the victims point of view, anger management etc.

The categories of prisons have more to do with security measures imposed not about the regime inside a prison.

Hardline prisoners who were guilty of serious crimes like murder etc are often released under a condition called life license. If they offend again they go back in.

What violence and torture did I exaggerate?

Prisoners can and do commit crimes in prison.

Incidentally its not my logic on re offending rates its the Ministry of Justice's own figures not mine. I didnt post them on their site.

i dont need to go to the website as you have already stated what the figures say. I am not arguing if the figures are true or not

you said that on the website figures show that criminals who spend their time under harsh regime have a higher re offending rate correct?

I am saying the reason the re offending rate is higher is because they are hardline criminals, not because they were prisoners under a harsh regime of the prison.

why do you keep being an arrogant prick and be insulting looking down your nose as you argue with somone calling them ignorant and such
you sound like a right snob

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

i dont need to go to the website as you have already stated what the figures say. I am not arguing if the figures are true or not

you said that on the website figures show that criminals who spend their time under harsh regime have a higher re offending rate correct?

I am saying the reason the re offending rate is higher is because they are hardline criminals, not because they were prisoners under a harsh regime of the prison.

Then you were wrong.

It doesnt say they are hardline criminals it states what sort of regime has what sort of results. Harsher regimes have higher reoffending rates.

As I said maybe you should educate yourself on the situation first before making incorrect statements. Saves looking stupid.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Tom.

But it isn't necessarily a conscience decision whether you'll reoffend or not. Some people are just predispositioned to crime.

Oh diddums. God forbid they take responsibility for their actions like the rest of us have to.

Of course its a conscious decision. They know it's wrong and they choose to proceed. They don't commit crime in a subconscious state!

[Grimnir]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Then you were wrong.

It doesnt say they are hardline criminals it states what sort of regime has what sort of results. Harsher regimes have higher reoffending rates.

As I said maybe you should educate yourself on the situation first before making incorrect statements. Saves looking stupid.

you are just acting like a baby troll now

The prisoners in a tough prison have higher reoffending rates.
We got prisoners, tough prison and higher reoffending rates, right understand?
Lets break it down simply like alphabet for you in case you a bit slow
You are saying B causes C
I am saying A causes C
They dont reoffend because they have been in a tough prison, you seriously think that?
They reoffend because they are criminals scum and have no respect for other people
do you need a diagram and legend to know what A B and C stand for?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

you are just acting like a baby troll now

The prisoners in a tough prison have higher reoffending rates.
We got prisoners, tough prison and higher reoffending rates, right understand?
Lets break it down simply like alphabet for you in case you a bit slow
You are saying B causes C
I am saying A causes C
They dont reoffend because they have been in a tough prison, you seriously think that?
They reoffend because they are criminals scum and have no respect for other people
do you need a diagram and legend to know what A B and C stand for?

Wow your time at school wasn't completely wasted then? You learnt some of the alphabet. I am impressed, I bet mommy is so proud of you.

Could you provide some evidence for that? Any at all, nope thought not.

Or is it just what your miniscule brain tells you should be so. You need to get a grip on reality me old fruit. Just because you say it is so doesnt make it so.

[Tom.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Oh diddums. God forbid they take responsibility for their actions like the rest of us have to.

Of course its a conscious decision. They know it's wrong and they choose to proceed. They don't commit crime in a subconscious state!

I didn't mean it in that sense, I meant that when a lot of criminals commit crime, they do it because they think its right or they think they'll get away with it. They think they'll be able to get away with it or justify it, and so won't be going to prison for it.

[Livia]

I think that you get the justice you can afford. In the early 90s, Ernest Saunders, former chairman of the Guinness Group, was released early from prison on compassionate grounds on account that he was suffering from Alzheimer's disease. Soon after being released he made a full recovery - the first person in the history of the world ever to make a recovery from Alzheimer's. Of course, despite his doctors pleading his Alzheimer's case back then, with copious amounts of "evidence", he now says he was suffering from depression and not Alzheimer's.

Does anyone believe that a working-class Joe Schmoe would be released early from a 30 month sentence because he was suffering from anything?

Money talks, and nowhere does it speak louder than in the courts of justice.

[Grimnir]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Wow your time at school wasn't completely wasted then? You learnt some of the alphabet. I am impressed, I bet mommy is so proud of you.

Could you provide some evidence for that? Any at all, nope thought not.

Or is it just what your miniscule brain tells you should be so. You need to get a grip on reality me old fruit. Just because you say it is so doesnt make it so.

evidence for what? my opinion that serious offenders and hardline type criminals will have higher reoffending rates because they dont give a toss about other people and society and consequences?
you need to accept other people's opinions, you are supposed to be the loony lefty fruity pie

[Livia]

If you two don't pack it in, I'm going to knock your heads together.

[Zippy]

The only really proven way to stop hardcore criminals from re-offending is to lock them away for longer. Which spares numerous victims and destroyed lives.

We need more prisons and longer sentences. No, its not the perfect solution and costs money but its certainly effective in physically preventing criminals committing more crime.

Like I said, more emphasis needs to be put on locking up the ones who are a physical threat to others. They are a menace to society and ruin lives.