[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marc

Yes Denise was definitely in the wrong, she started it all.. but the Twins could have taken it a little better, had a little banter with Denise/the whole house.

..maybe they would have...if she hadn't kept pushing...'you will forgive me though' ....'but you'll forgive me ..you will forgive me..' ....
Karissa already said..not right now...tomorrow

[MTVN]

Great post

[lostalex]

The Twins are insecure about being seen as sluts, and Denise is insecure about being a slut, so she pulled down Karissa's pants, to try to literally bring the twins down to her level. The Twins had more self-respect than Denise bargained for. the Twins proved that they have more self respect, and Denise proved that she has no respect for women at all.

[Samuel.]

I love you.

[lostalex]

Why should the twins have friendly banter and let it go with someone who just NOMINATED them to their FACES??? Obviously the twins and Denise were not friends, so how does Denise say that "i do this with my friends so it's okay" well would you put your friends up for NOMINATION denise??

DENISE VOTED FOR THE TWINS ON NOMNIATIONS< LET"S NOT FORGET THAT> AND SHE DID IT TO THEIR FACE.

[wendywillow]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Why should the twins have friendly banter and let it go with someone who just NOMINATED them to their FACES??? Obviously the twins and Denise were not friends, so how does Denise say that "i do this with my friends so it's okay" well would you put your friends up for NOMINATION denise??

DENISE VOTED FOR THE TWINS ON NOMNIATIONS< LET"S NOT FORGET THAT> AND SHE DID IT TO THEIR FACE.

Yes! Thats what we forget. Its a big deal when the woman youve been calling 'mom' throws a nomination in your face when you hadnt nommed her. That stuff is bubbling under the surface. And ive learned many years ago...NEVER...say 'calm down' to a semi-woman under any circumstances

[HBB1508]

Without taking sides my thoughts are that it would have been a lot less volatile if (and I know this sounds daft) the twins weren't two people. If either were in there on their own the situation could have been contained and dealt with sensibly - I always think twins counting as one contestant have an unfair advantage as they have family to back them up in the house, whereas the rest of them are on their own.

[Livia]

When you say, let's get some perspective... you mean, this is your perspective.

We all saw it, we really don't need to read a long statement about what somebody else saw. What's more, going to all this trouble really does seem like taking it a bit too seriously. All the girls had drunk too much and Frankie is just a gob****e sho doesn't know when to button his lip.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by JH95

She was more than rude to Frankie and Denise, and had she had realised that it was none of her business, things could have died down quicker. What makes me laugh is that the two slappers were fine with Nicola defending their corner (even though it wasn't her place) yet they talked to Frankie like dirt for speaking up for Denise.

Explain how she was rude to Denise and Frankie, please I beg you cause you are going to look silly when you watch it again and see she says nothing rude to either of them up until she herself gets attacked.

Go on I beg you, explain to me how she was rude to anyone? I know you remember it wrong cause you say 'the two slappers were fine with Nicola defending them' when in fact one of the 'slappers' was in the DR the whole time and wasnt even in the argument. And Nicola only got involved after about 30 mins of Denise and Frankie arguing with Kristina.

Originally Posted by Livia

When you say, let's get some perspective... you mean, this is your perspective.

We all saw it, we really don't need to read a long statement about what somebody else saw. What's more, going to all this trouble really does seem like taking it a bit too seriously. All the girls had drunk too much and Frankie is just a gob****e sho doesn't know when to button his lip.

No this is more or less transcribed from the show, its not my perspective. Clearly I put my opinion in there, but remove subjective reasoning and the order of events is the important thing.

People have this image of Denise being ganged up on by Twins + Nicola - that never happened not even close. Thats what this post was about ultimately and it was aimed at people who dont realise that.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by RodHull

Explain how she was rude to Denise and Frankie, please I beg you cause you are going to look silly when you watch it again and see she says nothing rude to either of them up until she herself gets attacked.

Go on I beg you, explain to me how she was rude to anyone?



No this is more or less transcribed from the show, its not my perspective. Clearly I put my opinion in there, but remove subjective reasoning and the order of events is the important thing.

People have this image of Denise being ganged up on by Twins + Nicola - that never happened not even close. Thats what this post was about ultimately and it was aimed at people who dont realise that.

Stop being rude and arrogant. Unlike you, I don't fancy forcing my VIEWS on anyone else. Everyone has different opinions of what they saw, end of.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Livia

When you say, let's get some perspective... you mean, this is your perspective.

We all saw it, we really don't need to read a long statement about what somebody else saw. What's more, going to all this trouble really does seem like taking it a bit too seriously. All the girls had drunk too much and Frankie is just a gob****e sho doesn't know when to button his lip.

Coud not have said it better.

[Glenn.]

The way I see it is all you've done is painstakingly typed something we already knew?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Glenn

The way I see it is all you've done is painstakingly typed something we already knew?

You obviously don't know it. And education is not quick. I understand that it will take a long time.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by RodHull

For 2 days now Twins haters and Denise lovers have been painting THAT argument as some appalling case of bullying directed at Denise, nothing could be further from the truth.

That night the twins and Nicola were having fun on their own, they shouted to Denise when he music started so she could come and join in. Denise then in her own drunken boundary breaking way decided to take things to far with a girl she barely knows and says she doesn't like by yanking her pyjama bottoms down.

Granted this was done as a joke, a really bad ill place joke, but it wasn't done maliciously. Karissa then got a bit weird, said she wasn't cool with it but largely everything was ok, THEN Denise not knowing when to back the **** up decided to pretend she was doing it again... Even then Karissa just gets annoyed goes and tells Frankie and Romeo who happen to be outside, they both laugh it off (probably not helpful) and say to calm down, she then asks Kristina to step in, when she doesn't Karissa then goes to the diary room.

Its at this stage that about 75% of posters here seem to remember a totally different show to what actually happened.

From this point onward Karissa pretty much exclusively spent all her time in the diary room apart from at the very end of the show. She over reacted a bit, was a bit drunk and made some silly threats about sueing BB, which im sure the production team found hilarious. At this stage she has no clue whats going down in the house.

Meanwhile Kristina is discussing with Denise whats just happened, shes telling Denise that Karissa is quite shy and reserved, however silly this might seem to the neanderthals who believe that all glamour models are 1 step away from prostitutes, thats her sister speaking who was at this stage is quite calm and trying to explain to denise that although it doesnt seem a big deal her sister is upset and she will defend her regardless. Remember at this stage as well Kristina doesn't know whats going in the Diary room, she doesn't know what her sister is saying or doing just that shes upset.

Next Frankie gets involved and starts defending Denise saying it was only a joke, despite him not being there and having no clue what happened, he also keeps repeating 'CALM DOWN' in a really annoying tone. At this point Kristina gets quite annoyed, understandably. Her sister is upset and she has a 19 year old perv who has spent weeks making lewd comments at them telling her to clam down while he has no clue what happened.

Then its flashpoint (watch it back) spurred on by Frankies defense Denise says "Look love you do get your tits out for a living" as though to excuse her behaviour, then and only then does Kristina get annoyed. And I totally understand why.

Meanwhile Nicola has decided to try and calm things down by removing Kristina so she could explain that denise is just being drunk denise and didnt mean any real harm. Then Frankie and Denise start attacking Nicola for getting involved. Nicola even stands at the door, the turning point of the argument when it got nasty and says 'Look Denise do me a favour if you want this to kick off I will let her back in' at which point Frankie (everyones HERO) says just 'let them talk', when its clear TALKING is the last thing that will happen.

Then Denise continues to try and defend her actions, meanwhile Frankie is just repeating 'calm down your shouting' which is the single best way to NOT calm someone down who is annoyed and feels they arent being heard. He then continues to push Kristinas buttons to make her more annoyed. THEN Nicola steps in and says "look I might be wrong saying this but I was a page 3 model for years your cool with flashing your boobs, im not, im not comfortable with that if you'd pulled my pants down I would be upset as well"

Its worth noting at this stage this is the first person who has defended or stuck up for Kristina since the argument started, in contrast Frankie has sat goading Kristina and egging Denise on the entire time.

Then what turns out to be the real argument happens, Denise says something like, look Nicola there is stuff I haven't said about you (clearly a childish reaction to Nicola mentioning Denise flashing her boobs) and then spends a minute or two avoiding the issue while she tries to remember some ammunition to attack Nicola with. She then brings up LETTERGATE an issue Denise is completely in the wrong about and hasn't mentioned once to her, indeed she had previously told Nicola she was glad she pressed it. She also says shes jealous of Nicola and the Twins being close since Natalie/Georgia left...

Around this time Kristina gets removed by BB cause Karissa has asked for her. Now its Nicola ON HER OWN. Denise then gets herself more and more worked up and upset, despite the fact nobody has done anything to her all night, and starts wailing like a banshee turning on the tears and throwing all sorts of unfair s*** at Nicola who sits looking bemused and hurt. By the time Nicola asks to leave and properly gets really upset only 1 other HM (Michael) even attempted to defend her, even though she was totally in the right.

When she goes to the diary room the twins then leaving ask why she is so upset and get really annoyed at Gareth and Frankie who are laughing on the couches. Gareth says 'it wasnt me girls ask her yourself' and frankie just laughs.

Frankie, HERO Frankie, who was so MATURE according to some people here then admits OPENLY to Gareth that he enjoyed watching them get angry earlier and did it deliberately.

And this guy is now favourite to win?? Some people seem to have this image of the twins and Nicola ganging up on Denise and good samaritan Frankie defending a poor old lady.

THAT ISNT WHAT HAPPENED.

At no stage all night was Denise ganged up on, the only reason she got so upset was when she attacked Nicola she started screaming and crying about an event 2 days ago. She wasnt even especially upset when the argument was about the Twins.

In fact the only people who were 'ganged up on' was Kristina by Frankie and Denise and Nicola by Frankie and Denise.

Thats the facts. But people remember what they want cause they dont like the twins or nicola, just like frankie doesnt like the twins cause they find him gross and voted out kirk so he saw an opportunity to stitch them up.

In the next episode Denise herself admitted to Nicola
“I thought that you didn’t like me any more, so everything you said I took personally"

Look back at the argument and you clearly see when Denise spots her opportunity to hurt and attack Nicola cause she wanted to punish her. It was despicable.

As an aside, during the first DR visit from Karissa amongst her silly ranting about lawyers she says "I have Frankie in there who sexually harasses me every day and Im fed up with it"

I know lots of people will think, who cares shes a glamour model. But I not only think thats sick thinking but sad that someone like Frankie who basically spurred the whole thing on and treats women like objects is now favourite to win cause the UK is xenophobic toward Americans.

The only HM to show any respect for themself was Romeo, hes a true gentleman and he is going to lose over a yobby kid who enjoys pervving over and winding up women.

Nice one British public...

Spot on.

Certain people will never see past the "playboy" thing and therefore everything that happens is either the girls fault, or they deserve it. Sad but true.

And there are people who will fall for the victim act that Denise pulls out every time she gets drunk and starts causing trouble.

There was two fights in that episode. One involving the twins and Denise, the other involving Denise and Nicola. On both occasions Denise was the instigator, in both she couldn't let it go and in both she played the victim.

[Incensed]

I'm getting bored of all this now. Everything has been said over and over again in all the other threads concerning 'that night'

[Glenn.]

The real perspective is Denise pulled her pants down. So what?

Get over it.

We all need some perspective on this. We're arguing over pants getting pulled down.

Seriously guys. We need a life.

[mizzy25]

Originally Posted by Glenn

The real perspective is Denise pulled her pants down. So what?

Get over it.

We all need some perspective on this. We're arguing over pants getting pulled down.

Seriously guys. We need a life.

cudnt have put it better myself

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Glenn

The real perspective is Denise pulled her pants down. So what?

Get over it.

We all need some perspective on this. We're arguing over pants getting pulled down.

Seriously guys. We need a life.

I for one am debating the continuous bad behaviour of one HM every time they have alcohol.

From this:


To this:


To this:


To this:


Same thing every time. And we always end up with this:



Followed by the "people don't understand me " speech:

[Glenn.]

Its just a TV show.

The way its taken over your lives is a tad sad. Move on.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Its just a TV show.

The way its taken over your lives is a tad sad. Move on.

Well I guess thats a tactic...brush it under the carpet and pretend you are above it all.

Course if you had a life, if BB wasn't interesting to you, would you be posting in this thread? Would you be posting on this site?

I'm guessing that over 6,600 posts tells its own story.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by kefln

Well I guess thats a tactic...brush it under the carpet and pretend you are above it all.

Course if you had a life, if BB wasn't interesting to you, would you be posting in this thread? Would you be posting on this site?

I'm guessing that over 6,600 posts tells its own story.

I've been on the forum nearly 6yrs and have learned not to take Big Brother too seriously.

I won't lose sleep over a Playboy Bunny suddenly having respect for herself and overreacting because someone pulled her knickers down, overreacting because she wasn't getting paid for it.

[Samuel.]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Its just a TV show.

The way its taken over your lives is a tad sad. Move on.

What?

This is a Big Brother, where people discuss Big Brother believe it or not. Not sure how you can jump to the conclusion that it's taking over people's lives.

[MrWong]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Its just a TV show.

The way its taken over your lives is a tad sad. Move on.

Leave the thread if you don't want to discuss this topic and leave others to carry on.

Seems simple enough.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by MrWong

Leave the thread if you don't want to discuss this topic and leave others to carry on.

Seems simple enough.

I can post where the hell I want. It's a public forum so I am entitled to post where I want.

Its easy to say 'get out of the thread if you don't like it' as a response to people who have an opinion that differs from yours.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Glenn

I can post where the hell I want. It's a public forum so I am entitled to post where I want.

Its easy to say 'get out of the thread if you don't like it' as a response to people who have an opinion that differs from yours.

But you just told people to get a life and stop discussing it, as its just a TV show...um am thats what this part of the forum is for discussing TV shows..in this case BB, so why dont you take your own advice ...confused.

Anyway Ive had a great read, thanks to all who contributed to this thread...good debate.