[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I disagree, educational standards have declined, student standards have declined....not teaching.
Working for the public sector in any capacity is for the benefit of everyone. They do contribute to it , its not free money.
I can see you are not open to this, teachers , firefighters,police officers,nurses.....They deserve respect for the work they do, recently they are being dumped on from a great height.
Its not right, this country will continue to decline untill we look after those who look after us and the future generation.

Explain what you mean by 'student standards' have declined?

If you mean that students do not respect those in authority (ie the teachers) - that basic and fundamental respect is taught not by teachers, but from the minute the child is old enough to know right from wrong - and is taught by parents. It is then reinforced throughout their education. If a child is disrespectful at home, they will be disrespectful (in the most cases) at school.

We 'look after' the younger ones these days far more than ever children were looked after. That's what's at the root cause: they want for nothing but do nothing to earn what they get on a whim - because some parents think material possessions are far more important.


So tell me again: where did I say I do not respect the jobs of teachers, police, firefighter etc? I didn't.

What I said was that to go on strike because of changes to their jobs and primarily because of issues over their pensions in which they benefit FAR FAR greater priviledge to than most in the private section - is not a good enough reason to go on strike.

Again: what benefit exactly do you see from a one day strike. What precisely is going to be the resultant effect that will be a positive effect for 'their cause' (other than it getting some attention - to no avail - and with no real impact).

BTW: you'll never make a profit on your psychiatric service Kizzy.... you'd make a rubbish business woman - your charges are far too low .....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Explain what you mean by 'student standards' have declined?

If you mean that students do not respect those in authority (ie the teachers) - that basic and fundamental respect is taught not by teachers, but from the minute the child is old enough to know right from wrong - and is taught by parents. It is then reinforced throughout their education. If a child is disrespectful at home, they will be disrespectful (in the most cases) at school.

We 'look after' the younger ones these days far more than ever children were looked after. That's what's at the root cause: they want for nothing but do nothing to earn what they get on a whim - because some parents think material possessions are far more important.


So tell me again: where did I say I do not respect the jobs of teachers, police, firefighter etc? I didn't.

What I said was that to go on strike because of changes to their jobs and primarily because of issues over their pensions in which they benefit FAR FAR greater priviledge to than most in the private section - is not a good enough reason to go on strike.

Again: what benefit exactly do you see from a one day strike. What precisely is going to be the resultant effect that will be a positive effect for 'their cause' (other than it getting some attention - to no avail - and with no real impact).

BTW: you'll never make a profit on your psychiatric service Kizzy.... you'd make a rubbish business woman - your charges are far too low .....

Basically yes, Im suggesting ther is a lack of respect for all forms of authority.
They are primarily not being taught boundries at home therefore as secondary socialisation it cannot be reinforced.....

Teachers are from the off at a disadvantage,which is not a good thing when faced with criteria for learning aside from basic social functions.
If you are a public sector worker my view is the government pays a subsidy to reward your service to the country?
As your working life has been to the benefit of all,and not private industry or yourself?......

Again a strike is a last resort, and it is not for me to suggest an outcome ...However I am in favour.
I offer all my 'services' for free as a rule

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Basically yes, Im suggesting ther is a lack of respect for all forms of authority.
They are primarily not being taught boundries at home therefore as secondary socialisation it cannot be reinforced.....

Teachers are from the off at a disadvantage,which is not a good thing when faced with criteria for learning aside from basic social functions.
If you are a public sector worker my view is the government pays a subsidy to reward your service to the country?
As your working life has been to the benefit of all,and not private industry or yourself?......

Again a strike is a last resort, and it is not for me to suggest an outcome ...However I am in favour.
I offer all my 'services' for free as a rule

Which leads me back to the quality of the teachers that are being brought into the field now? But this is not what the teachers are discussing strike action for - that's just all an offshoot from the real debate here.

How on earth are teachers at a disadvantage? what's that got to do with the reason they are wanting to strike? What disadvantages have they in respect of some changes to their roles and their pensions.

'Service to your country'. Oh come on now Kizzy. Men and women who put their lives on the serious line - military personnel etc - they serve their country. The more docile occupations that many civil servants fall into is not a service - it's a basic job that they choose to enter into - that they get paid a fair salary for, with many perks that come with working in the civil service.

Still - I've asked this question several times over. What difference do you think a one day strike will have - what actual effective impact will it have 'to their cause'? How exactly so you think 'they think' it will change anything - all it is will be a one day strike, with no real impact other than today's news, tomorrow's fish n chip wrappers.

[Livia]

The only impact a one-day strike will have is that parents will have to find alternative childcare for the day. Parents who probably go to work every day, work hard and don't get a massively subsidised pension. Meanwhile, the teachers will gain an extra day off to add to the twelve weeks they already get.

[arista]

The Teachers Strike
is a Last Resort.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by arista

The Teachers Strike
is a Last Resort.

A one day strike isn't much of a resort really. It's pretty pathetic.

It still doesn't answer the question: what is likely to be the resultant impact for their benefit. NONE. It's pointless.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Livia

The only impact a one-day strike will have is that parents will have to find alternative childcare for the day. Parents who probably go to work every day, work hard and don't get a massively subsidised pension. Meanwhile, the teachers will gain an extra day off to add to the twelve weeks they already get.

for Livia and someone who has the exact same view on it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Which leads me back to the quality of the teachers that are being brought into the field now? But this is not what the teachers are discussing strike action for - that's just all an offshoot from the real debate here.

How on earth are teachers at a disadvantage? what's that got to do with the reason they are wanting to strike? What disadvantages have they in respect of some changes to their roles and their pensions.

'Service to your country'. Oh come on now Kizzy. Men and women who put their lives on the serious line - military personnel etc - they serve their country. The more docile occupations that many civil servants fall into is not a service - it's a basic job that they choose to enter into - that they get paid a fair salary for, with many perks that come with working in the civil service.

Still - I've asked this question several times over. What difference do you think a one day strike will have - what actual effective impact will it have 'to their cause'? How exactly so you think 'they think' it will change anything - all it is will be a one day strike, with no real impact other than today's news, tomorrow's fish n chip wrappers.

I think they feel they are at a significant disadvantage regarding their role and pensions otherwise there would be no need for action...
It is a Public Service. Not military but equally vital imo.
I am hoping it will have a positive impact, if the government continue to ignore the view of these teachers who knows?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The only impact a one-day strike will have is that parents will have to find alternative childcare for the day. Parents who probably go to work every day, work hard and don't get a massively subsidised pension. Meanwhile, the teachers will gain an extra day off to add to the twelve weeks they already get.

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

The Teachers Strike
is a Last Resort.

Well well well....Mr 'anti union' arista......
Strike a chord with you this one does it?.....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I think they feel they are at a significant disadvantage regarding their role and pensions otherwise there would be no need for action...
It is a Public Service. Not military but equally vital imo.
I am hoping it will have a positive impact, if the government continue to ignore the view of these teachers who knows?

You are saying 'they are this/that' but you what you aren't doing is validating your reasons for saying so.

Why are they at a significant disadvantage? In what way?

The men who drive the street cleaning machines for example - they are serving the public - are they included in your sympathy vote - do you think their role is as equal to those young men and women who serve their country and put their lives on the line - and in the line of battle fire?

I realise you are hoping it will have a positive impact - clearly as you would not be in support of it. What I am asking though is what type of impact do you truly believe a one day strike is liable to achieve?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous

I'm getting my popcorn supplies for this one!! Sorry Kizzy - no offence intended - I'm laughing and you'll understand why very soon.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Do you work in the public sector?...Im guessing no.
Why do people think teachers dont work in holiday times....haha its ridiculous

To answer both your questions...

No, I don't work in the public sector, although you already knew the answer to that. My father though - first a soldier and then a paramedic with the London Ambulance Service - has never been on strike. In fact, he's crossed picket lines because he disagrees with militant people striking and putting other people's lives (and in this case, educations) in jeopardy. Considering the amount of money people pay to their unions you think they'd expect them to drag themselves out of the 1970s and represent them a little more effectively, frankly.

I think teachers don't work in holiday times because one of my best friends is a teacher in an inner-city primary school, and her husband is a teacher in an inner-city secondary school. While there is some lesson prep and marking etc. they generally don't work during the holidays.

I work with the public sector. Not directly with public services... but I do have contact with city, council and district councils and I have to say that most of the people I'm forced to deal with wouldn't be able to hold down a job in the private sector... and in many cases couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I'm getting my popcorn supplies for this one!! Sorry Kizzy - no offence intended - I'm laughing and you'll understand why very soon.

ooooh can hardly contain my excitement...lol

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Livia

To answer both your questions...

No, I don't work in the public sector, although you already knew the answer to that. My father though - first a soldier and then a paramedic with the London Ambulance Service - has never been on strike. In fact, he's crossed picket lines because he disagrees with militant people striking and putting other people's lives (and in this case, educations) in jeopardy. Considering the amount of money people pay to their unions you think they'd expect them to drag themselves out of the 1970s and represent them a little more effectively, frankly.

I think teachers don't work in holiday times because one of my best friends is a teacher in an inner-city primary school, and her husband is a teacher in an inner-city secondary school. While there is some lesson prep and marking etc. they generally don't work during the holidays.

I work with the public sector. Not directly with public services... but I do have contact with city, council and district councils and I have to say that most of the people I'm forced to deal with wouldn't be able to hold down a job in the private sector... and in many cases couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands.

Having worked on both sides of the fence - I have to agree here. I've never seen so much laziness, waste of efficiency, time, equipment and work to rule as I did when I worked in several sectors of both civil service and in the public sector.

So much so that I went back into the private sector - so pissed off it made me watching people on inflated wages, booze hidden away in drawers, topping up their coffee with a quick slash and not one person bothering their arses, 2 hour lunches down at the boozers and coming back half cut - and watching the temps bust their guts and doing far better jobs for far less money.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You are saying 'they are this/that' but you what you aren't doing is validating your reasons for saying so.

Why are they at a significant disadvantage? In what way?

The men who drive the street cleaning machines for example - they are serving the public - are they included in your sympathy vote - do you think their role is as equal to those young men and women who serve their country and put their lives on the line - and in the line of battle fire?

I realise you are hoping it will have a positive impact - clearly as you would not be in support of it. What I am asking though is what type of impact do you truly believe a one day strike is liable to achieve?

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

[Jords]

Im well behind the teacher striking /student

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

Do you work in the public sector?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

I don't honestly see that you have.

If you seriously, in all honesty: believe that the people who clean our streets serve their country on the same level as those who put their lives on the line in war torn battle - I honestly can't take you seriously on this subject.

sorry, but I can't.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

To answer both your questions...

No, I don't work in the public sector, although you already knew the answer to that. My father though - first a soldier and then a paramedic with the London Ambulance Service - has never been on strike. In fact, he's crossed picket lines because he disagrees with militant people striking and putting other peopleand in this case, educations's lives () in jeopardy. Considering the amount of money people pay to their unions you think they'd expect them to drag themselves out of the 1970s and represent them a little more effectively, frankly.

I think teachers don't work in holiday times because one of my best friends is a teacher in an inner-city primary school, and her husband is a teacher in an inner-city secondary school. While there is some lesson prep and marking etc. they generally don't work during the holidays.

I work with the public sector. Not directly with public services... but I do have contact with city, council and district councils and I have to say that most of the people I'm forced to deal with wouldn't be able to hold down a job in the private sector... and in many cases couldn't find their arse in the dark with both hands.

The term 'militant' is an unfair generalisation of all union members.....
Are you suggesting a one day strke will have an adverse affect on educational attainment?...
If teachers choose not to use the off term time to plan lesssons , mark work, appraise students, complete paperwork then yes they will have lots of 'free time'
In what capacity do these people work in the public sector who cannot find their arses....And why would you say that about them?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I don't honestly see that you have.

If you seriously, in all honesty: believe that the people who clean our streets serve their country on the same level as those who put their lives on the line in war torn battle - I honestly can't take you seriously on this subject.

sorry, but I can't.

I didn't say that though....You are suggesting I said that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kizzy

The term 'militant' is an unfair generalisation of all union members.....
Are you suggesting a one day strke will have an adverse affect on educational attainment?...
If teachers choose not to use the off term time to plan lesssons , mark work, appraise students, complete paperwork then yes they will have lots of 'free time'
In what capacity do these people work in the public sector who cannot find their arses....And why would you say that about them?

I think it's a perfectly fair generalisation. My Dad's been called a "scab" by colleagues and had stuff chucked at him by them while he was trying to get out in an emergency ambulance with his blues and twos on. What would YOU call it? And in fact, I didn't call union members militant, I said "militant people striking".

Seeing as we're coming up to exam time, I'd say every day counted, wouldn't you?

I would say that about them because it's true. I have to endure their endless ineptitude. I'm talking about all areas of councils... planning, refuse collection, children's services (especially children's services), housing, council tax, electoral services... in fact any area that a constituent may have a problem with. So that's pretty much all of them.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I have done nothing else in many posts but validate my reasons to be fair, I have made many posts explaining my view.....
Yes , I am including the men/women who clean streets...
That is not the issue and has no relevance street cleaners and soldiers?...
I have no clue....That is the honest answer....apart from affirming the feelings of those affected.

Originally Posted by kizzy

I didn't say that though....You are suggesting I said that.

I think you need to check back on what you replied to the question I asked - your reply being above for ease.

I did not suggest anything. I quoted your very own sentiments/comment which is exactly what you said.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Having worked on both sides of the fence - I have to agree here. I've never seen so much laziness, waste of efficiency, time, equipment and work to rule as I did when I worked in several sectors of both civil service and in the public sector.

So much so that I went back into the private sector - so pissed off it made me watching people on inflated wages, booze hidden away in drawers, topping up their coffee with a quick slash and not one person bothering their arses, 2 hour lunches down at the boozers and coming back half cut - and watching the temps bust their guts and doing far better jobs for far less money.

Thats the only people who will have jobs soon, those on temporary 12 week contracts...no holiday pay, no pension, no job security ...That will be a thing of the past.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I think it's a perfectly fair generalisation. My Dad's been called a "scab" by colleagues and had stuff chucked at him by them while he was trying to get out in an emergency ambulance with his blues and twos on. What would YOU call it? And in fact, I didn't call union members militant, I said "militant people striking".

Seeing as we're coming up to exam time, I'd say every day counted, wouldn't you?

I would say that about them because it's true. I have to endure their endless ineptitude. I'm talking about all areas of councils... planning, refuse collection, children's services (especially children's services), housing, council tax, electoral services... in fact any area that a constituent may have a problem with. So that's pretty much all of them.

Its a generalisation then to suggest striking people are militant...Maybe they feel that if enough people voice the same view it will make a difference?
Hmmmm, who mentioned miners?....haha

Better tell the government every child matters.....

Let me guess...Especially in child services they 'don't have any funding available'.....
Everywhere else it is not their department, and you get so frustrated you give up?