[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's a world of difference between your situation Pyramid and the situation facing the largest demographic of the unemployed which is the younger folk just fresh out of Education and looking for that first job.

It's a cruel circle for younger people at the moment because a lot of places require experience but there's few opportunities to gain any since most employers will opt for someone with experience rather then a fresh candidate. The typical first job roles are highly competitive and there's few opportunities for the more specialised careers.

On the other hand you've probably been working for years and have a wealth of experience and references to back it up. Your situation is incomparable to that of younger people in this economical climate.

Yeah, this is a good point actually.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I have always said that if you want (hard enough) to work and want a job: you will get one - and if you want to work: you will chose the avenues available that will source work for you. I'm very pleased to have been proven correct on this one.

Myself and no less than 5 others that I worked with - within weeks of being given notice of impending redundancies - each and every one of us secured new employment even before our final working day.

Not one of us had to downgrade either on position/ renumeration /package: in fact, every one of us found employment which included higher salaries and better Company benefits than we had - after only one interview each - and all with different companies.

so please... someone care to explain to me why there are those in society who bleat on about it being so hard to get work - or work that pays well.... because from the evidence I've seen over the past few weeks: getting a new job is far from difficult.

What happens to people fresh out of school with no experience? It's all well and good saying you and your workmates found new jobs, but you probably have a lot more on your CVs than some young school leaver.

I actually have a job btw, I just think its a little unfair claiming that its so easy to get a job.

[Tom4784]

Retail's incredibly competitive at the moment since it's everyone's go to option. I remember being told by an advisor around a year ago not to bother with retail unless you have experience since Entry level jobs in the sector are just heavily applied for by everyone and more often then not it tends to be a matter of luck getting a job a shop.

That might only apply to my area though since Retail is definitely the main work option where I live.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Retail's incredibly competitive at the moment since it's everyone's go to option. I remember being told by an advisor around a year ago not to bother with retail unless you have experience since Entry level jobs in the sector are just heavily applied for by everyone and more often then not it tends to be a matter of luck getting a job a shop.

That might only apply to my area though since Retail is definitely the main work option where I live.

I think the answer is to literally take any job you can get... even if it is just a 3 hour stint on a Saturday night waiting on tables... at least then you can claim to have experience in customer, service, cash handling, housekeeping duties etc

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

I think the answer is to literally take any job you can get... even if it is just a 3 hour stint on a Saturday night waiting on tables... at least then you can claim to have experience in customer, service, cash handling, housekeeping duties etc

If you have no ties and transport then yes.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by lostalex

no, I would love to work and have a CAREER and provide for myself.

Taking any old JOB that you can get, i don't think anyone wants that. Obviously everyone wants and needs money though. I was pointing out that just because you CAN get a job doesn't mean that you WANT to get a job, and just because you HAVE a JOB, doesn't mean that it's always worth it, especially since a lot of these JOBS you are talking about don't even pay a living wage or provide any kind of decent lifestyle that makes it worth the miserable work.

A lot of the JOBS you are talking about them being able to get are just JOBS, and offer no CAREER potential at all. so they are a waste of time. People don't want a JOB, they want a CAREER.

Your very first quote on this thread completely contradicts your change of stance.

A career can only come through having a job and starting off - that's a very good way start to build on a that and decide if that's the career you may want.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's a world of difference between your situation Pyramid and the situation facing the largest demographic of the unemployed which is the younger folk just fresh out of Education and looking for that first job.

It's a cruel circle for younger people at the moment because a lot of places require experience but there's few opportunities to gain any since most employers will opt for someone with experience rather then a fresh candidate. The typical first job roles are highly competitive and there's few opportunities for the more specialised careers.

On the other hand you've probably been working for years and have a wealth of experience and references to back it up. Your situation is incomparable to that of younger people in this economical climate.

I don't disagree with you in all fairness Dezzy - there is some validation to what you've said but I never at any point said my situation was comparible (or not) to those far younger than I.

I also made clear reference to several others that I worked with who also gained employment very quickly ...... a few of them being in their early twenties (23) , some in their 30's and old me in my late 40's - I'd say that was a good all round example. However, there are plenty of people who aren't just out of education, who do have experience for plenty of jobs that could suit them - if they so wanted - as I've explained.

Originally Posted by Chewy

What happens to people fresh out of school with no experience? It's all well and good saying you and your workmates found new jobs, but you probably have a lot more on your CVs than some young school leaver.

I actually have a job btw, I just think its a little unfair claiming that its so easy to get a job.

See above - I don't necessarily disagree in respect of immediate school leavers etc: but again: it depends on how keen the person is to work - ie: work to start with regardless if it's what they intend to keep doing - or take some work to look for their preferred option in the interim.

I think it is fair to say it is so easy to get a job - when I and others in the same boat as me all managed to obtain new positions within a few short weeks. As far as I have experience only last month - 5 people all being made redundant - all secured other postion very quickly: that's the reality of it - so I am guided by has actually happened.

Originally Posted by kizzy

There is obviously, I meant that there are other means to access goods and services now is all..

Online....

Call centers and warehouse staff to replace a skilled retail sector eh?..great

Seeing as we are discussing the 'high street' I would say that includes customer facing roles yes.

childcare and travel costs? time is not the only constraint.

Is childcare while you are unemployed to attend these courses also free?

Work for your benefits?...Makes you wonder how there are any jobs doesen't it...if you have the unemployed taking the positions of people who REALLY want to work

Where do you get the notion that those who are not in work DON'T want to work?...I cannot understand your thinking here pyra honestly.

You may be discussing the 'high street' Kizzy... I am not - retail does not mean 'high street' only.

You do realise Kizzy the amount of people who work, who have children who require childcare, and do not have their own mode of transport - there are tens of thousands who are able to have children, no car and work. It doesn't hamper them any in finding work.


Skilled retail sector?? ... Perhaps if you expanded on what particular 'specialist retail skills' that you are referring to that make it so very difficult to secure employment with such a sector? It must be highly specialised that it invalidates all possible other invovlment within the retail world. Or does this revert back to what I mentioned earlier in the thread in general: about people who are unemployed - just being far too selective, being far too fussy in the type of work they are prepared to do? It's a valid question.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Retail's incredibly competitive at the moment since it's everyone's go to option. I remember being told by an advisor around a year ago not to bother with retail unless you have experience since Entry level jobs in the sector are just heavily applied for by everyone and more often then not it tends to be a matter of luck getting a job a shop.

That might only apply to my area though since Retail is definitely the main work option where I live.

Something may be competitive but that does not make it elusive or exclusive. The old thing of Saturday jobs / weekend work being a great starting point to gain experience with people, in customer facing roles, handling cash, stock etc is as valuable a training (and earning) role - now as much as it was when I first began work. I began my working life in retail - in the bill collection counter in my local electricity shop..... moved on from taking money from people paying their electricity bills to being offered full time work and so it continued - all from a Saturday job.

Originally Posted by kizzy

If you have no ties and transport then yes.

I fail to see how having children and no transport prevents a person from working - it does not stop thousands upon thousands of others from getting work - perhaps you can explain how all of those thousands of others manage to work with no car and children.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by kizzy

If you have no ties and transport then yes.

I was talking about schooleavers who can't get a job through lack of experience. Dizzy was saying that that is the biggest problem when it comes to young uns looking for work.

Incidentally, to the young uns on here who are maybe struggling; Next take on young staff with no experience and provide an extensive training programme. At first you may find that you are only given an 8 hour contract, but if you appear keen and hard working, it is a good company to work your way up the ladder in.

[lostalex]

I blame China.

[Kizzy]

I blame dave

[arista]

"It's a cruel circle for younger people at the moment "


Yes Dezzy
some are doing well
many are not in some places.
(thats been like that for to many years)

[InOne]

Well, Scotland might be totally different for getting a job. The UK is vastly different in terms of job prospects. It's basically the area you live in and who you know.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by InOne

Well, Scotland might be totally different for getting a job. The UK is vastly different in terms of job prospects. It's basically the area you live in and who you know.

You think so? I don't.


I'll be working for a company that I know no one in. So too are 3 of my other ex-colleagues.

As for geographical area: not so either: given that we are spread out over various parts of the country - East & west Lothian, Lanarkshire, Aberdeen and region covering Newcastle to Birmingham - it's certainly not tied down to one area.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You think so? I don't.


I'll be working for a company that I know no one in. So too are 3 of my other ex-colleagues.

As for geographical area: not so either: given that we are spread out over various parts of the country - East & west Lothian, Lanarkshire, Aberdeen and region covering Newcastle to Birmingham - it's certainly not tied down to one area.

I wasn't on about one company though I meant jobs and opportunites in general. And if definitely does depend on the area in that respect, you can't deny that.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

QUOTE:
You may be discussing the 'high street' Kizzy... I am not - retail does not mean 'high street' only.

You do realise Kizzy the amount of people who work, who have children who require childcare, and do not have their own mode of transport - there are tens of thousands who are able to have children, no car and work. It doesn't hamper them any in finding work.


Specialist retail skills. Perhaps if you expanded on what particular 'specialist retail skills' that you are referring to that make it so very difficult to secure employment with such a sector? It must be highly specialised that it invalidates all possible other invovlment within the retail world. Or does this revert back to what I mentioned earlier in the thread in general: about people who are unemployed - just being far too selective, being far too fussy in the type of work they are prepared to do? It's a valid question.

I raised the issue of retail, suggesting that online retail had affected the high street and customer facing roles in the retail sector.

On the flip side it affects many in regard to where, when and how long they work.

I never mentioned 'specialist retail skills' I reffered to a skilled retail sector..You may be confused?

And here we are again, it's like a merry go round. If you are skilled in a field and your position, status and salary are removed would it not be understandable to look for a similar position in your area of experience to maintain your current needs?

QUOTE:
I fail to see how having children and no transport prevents a person from working - it does not stop thousands upon thousands of others from getting work - perhaps you can explain how all of those thousands of others manage to work with no car and children

This was my reply to lee and the suggestion that someone may work for 3 hours on a saturday night.... For many this is not a viable option due to having to pay sitters and travel costs, meaning you would be basically working for nothing...

too much going on in that post Kizzy with quotes out of synch, bolds, colours.....

I'll ask you again since you have avoided providing an answer. 'Skilled retail sector''.. the words you have chosen to use. What precise skills are so exclusive within the retail sector that make getting a job within such a huge sector - difficult? What do you regard as being the requirements of someone in the 'skilled retail sector'. Which skills in particular? I'm very interested to learn what you regard as such special skills: enlighten me, please.

the last part in red ...... proves what I have said: you are using this 'no car, no baby sitters' as an excuse for people not working. If they wanted to work: they would get around such things: in the same way a many thousands of others do. Indeed part time / evening / weekend work often suits parents of younger children - because they CAN find babysitters far more easily via friends / family etc.

Originally Posted by InOne

I wasn't on about one company though I meant jobs and opportunites in general. And if definitely does depend on the area in that respect, you can't deny that.

I'm not meaning one company either. We all found work in different companies as I said in my very eary posts. f

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

too much going on in that post Kizzy with quotes out of synch, bolds, colours.....

I'll ask you again since you have avoided providing an answer. 'Skilled retail sector''.. the words you have chosen to use. What precise skills are so exclusive within the retail sector that make getting a job within such a huge sector - difficult? What do you regard as being the requirements of someone in the 'skilled retail sector'. Which skills in particular? I'm very interested to learn what you regard as such special skills: enlighten me, please.

the last part in red ...... proves what I have said: you are using this 'no car, no baby sitters' as an excuse for people not working. If they wanted to work: they would get around such things: in the same way a many thousands of others do. Indeed part time / evening / weekend work often suits parents of younger children - because they CAN find babysitters far more easily via friends / family etc.



I'm not meaning one company either. We all found work in different companies as I said in my very eary posts. f

I know haha it does look a bit odd, nevermind eh?
I haven't avoided giving you an answer pyra, the 'skilled retail sector' means just that those whose quals are in this sector,retail management, customer service..
It most certainly doesen't prove what you have said at all...
It is in no way an excuse..As lee clarified she was using that evening/ weekend example for school leavers, my saying it would be unworkable for parents is valid as your wage would be swallowed up with sitters and travel costs.
Unfortunately I never found my friends and family that accomodating..Not to give up their evenings and weekends indefinately anyway.
I am aware you have all found work and I am very happy for you all, however my initial point was, and still is it is not that easy for everyone.

[Kizzy]

QUOTE:
You may be discussing the 'high street' Kizzy... I am not - retail does not mean 'high street' only.

You do realise Kizzy the amount of people who work, who have children who require childcare, and do not have their own mode of transport - there are tens of thousands who are able to have children, no car and work. It doesn't hamper them any in finding work.


Specialist retail skills. Perhaps if you expanded on what particular 'specialist retail skills' that you are referring to that make it so very difficult to secure employment with such a sector? It must be highly specialised that it invalidates all possible other invovlment within the retail world. Or does this revert back to what I mentioned earlier in the thread in general: about people who are unemployed - just being far too selective, being far too fussy in the type of work they are prepared to do? It's a valid question.

I raised the issue of retail, suggesting that online retail had affected the high street and customer facing roles in the retail sector.

On the flip side it affects many in regard to where, when and how long they work.

I never mentioned 'specialist retail skills' I reffered to a skilled retail sector..You may be confused?

And here we are again, it's like a merry go round. If you are skilled in a field and your position, status and salary are removed would it not be understandable to look for a similar position in your area of experience to maintain your current needs?

QUOTE:
I fail to see how having children and no transport prevents a person from working - it does not stop thousands upon thousands of others from getting work - perhaps you can explain how all of those thousands of others manage to work with no car and children

This was my reply to lee and the suggestion that someone may work for 3 hours on a saturday night.... For many this is not a viable option due to having to pay sitters and travel costs, meaning you would be basically working for nothing...

[Me. I Am Salman]

My brother got his degree last year in Maths & Finance (I think it's that) at a Russell Group University, yet he still hasn't got a job. It is difficult.

[Z]

As a young person I think it can be very difficult to get your foot in the door - a lot of places that are willing to hire young people will only hire those who have had previous experience in that field of work - so for example, how are you to get experience working in retail if you've never worked in retail, and places will only hire you if you've had experience in retail? It's a problem that goes round in circles. I'm currently hunting for part time work now that I'm back at uni and I'm struggling so far - all my work experience has been in offices or working in a school - neither of which are particularly relevant to pulling pints or selling clothes, y'know?

[Saph]

I've never had a job and I don't really want one either.. I'd like money but i'm far to self conscious to work in public and would never work somewhere that I thought was 'beneath' me incase anyone I knew saw me. Schools should really be teaching about different jobs, I never knew about jobs that could be done at home, when you leave school it seems like the only options are working in shops/restaurants etc

(i'm not saying shops/restaurants are beneath me )

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by SaphLiike

I've never had a job and I don't really want one either.. I'd like money but i'm far to self conscious to work in public and would never work somewhere that I thought was 'beneath' me incase anyone I knew saw me. Schools should really be teaching about different jobs, I never knew about jobs that could be done at home, when you leave school it seems like the only options are working in shops/restaurants etc

(i'm not saying shops/restaurants are beneath me )

ie; shops being the retail sector - the one place that people are saying it's so hard to get into.

There is not one thing wrong with working in shops / restaurants - we'd all be missing much if they didn't exist !

Many people start work in such places - it's a great starting place and it's these type of jobs that then show what areas an individual is particularly good at and allows for progression if they so wish.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

ie; shops being the retail sector - the one place that people are saying it's so hard to get into.

There is not one thing wrong with working in shops / restaurants - we'd all be missing much if they didn't exist !

Many people start work in such places - it's a great starting place and it's these type of jobs that then show what areas an individual is particularly good at and allows for progression if they so wish.

Nobody said it was hard to get into

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

If your area of education and experience is retail for example the recession has changed the face of the high street.

Those who were managers in these fields are having to re-train in a different fields or take a large pay cut in lower paid positions.

BIB above suggests that it is hard to find work in the retail field unless you are prepared to accept large pay cuts. I disagree.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Retail's incredibly competitive at the moment since it's everyone's go to option. I remember being told by an advisor around a year ago not to bother with retail unless you have experience since Entry level jobs in the sector are just heavily applied for by everyone and more often then not it tends to be a matter of luck getting a job a shop.

That might only apply to my area though since Retail is definitely the main work option where I live.

Dezzy appears to agree with my own thought that getting retail jobs is not that difficult: mostly due to saturation levels, yet we have another differing opinion below from Zee, that it is difficult to get into.


[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Zee

As a young person I think it can be very difficult to get your foot in the door - a lot of places that are willing to hire young people will only hire those who have had previous experience in that field of work - so for example, how are you to get experience working in retail if you've never worked in retail, and places will only hire you if you've had experience in retail? It's a problem that goes round in circles. I'm currently hunting for part time work now that I'm back at uni and I'm struggling so far - all my work experience has been in offices or working in a school - neither of which are particularly relevant to pulling pints or selling clothes, y'know?

Originally Posted by kizzy

Nobody said it was hard to get into

The above posts, say differently depending on the view.

According to several posters (including your good self) - you can't get into retail - (either at all or at a certain level) unless you have experience or are prepared to drop grade... both of these indicate it is not an easy sector to gain employment..... yet now you are saying no one said it was hard to get into.

Getting a job within the retail sector I do not believe to be a difficult task.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

BIB above suggests that it is hard to find work in the retail field unless you are prepared to accept large pay cuts. I disagree.




Dezzy appears to agree with my own thought that getting retail jobs is not that difficult: mostly due to saturation levels, yet we have another differing opinion below from Zee, that it is difficult to get into.

The above posts, say differently depending on the view.

According to several posters (including your good self) - you can't get into retail - (either at all or at a certain level) unless you have experience or are prepared to drop grade... both of these indicate it is not an easy sector to gain employment..... yet now you are saying no one said it was hard to get into.

Getting a job within the retail sector I do not believe to be a difficult task.[/QUOTE]

I have heard from many people that once made redundant at a retail management level it is hard to gain the same post at the same salary, wether you agree with this or not is irrelevant.
You took what I did say on the subject out of context.
Good for you.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Dezzy appears to agree with my own thought that getting retail jobs is not that difficult: mostly due to saturation levels, yet we have another differing opinion below from Zee, that it is difficult to get into.

Yes that post of mine does seem to agree with yours, as long as you disregard 80% of it and take the two points you highlighted out of context.

[Iceman]

Older people have more experience than the younger generation. I know from personal experience that older people get jobs ahead of younger ones. Quite simple really.