[reece(:]

I hope to god they aren't put in for PM again, all they do is ruin ****!! It's even worse now than Gordon Brown's run

[GypsyGoth]

The homeless should be picking up litter while they're out and about, they shouldn't really be sleeping on the job.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

The homeless should be picking up litter while they're out and about, they shouldn't really be sleeping on the job.

If Osbourne/IDS happened to read this forum, you would be getting a job immediately for that post

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If Osbourne/IDS happened to read this forum, you would be getting a job immediately for that post

[MTVN]

Fail to see the relevance of the Mail, am I supposed to be their representative or something

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Tad melodramatic..

Originally Posted by MTVN

Fail to see the relevance of the Mail, am I supposed to be their representative or something

Woah chill out, the relevance is their attitude if late, the right wing rally cry that suggests in to me that nazism was a more attractive option than anything advocated by Ralph Milliband.
That was my logic there, I don't feel you are the tibb spokesperson for the mail, no need to get so defensive haha.

[MTVN]

Didn't think my comment was a particularly angry one lol, I just didn't see how your post about the Mail related to my first one

[Kizzy]

Your ' tad melodramatic' was a bit glib, to what seemed a fair analysis of what is happening today.
The media use sensationalism and lies to influence people daily and yet an opinion like that is seen as melodramatic?
Am I being oversensitive again? My bad.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Your ' tad melodramatic' was a bit glib, to what seemed a fair analysis of what is happening today.
The media use sensationalism and lies to influence people daily and yet an opinion like that is seen as melodramatic?
Am I being oversensitive again? My bad.

Well it is a bit melodramatic to compare the Conservatives to the Nazis and say they are trying to 'kill off the poor', that goes beyond even the most sensationalist media

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well it is a bit melodramatic to compare the Conservatives to the Nazis and say they are trying to 'kill off the poor', that goes beyond even the most sensationalist media

Not at all, there is a comparison to be drawn here imo. The views of the current
Government and the media they control were and are still are more in line with facism than anyone would care to admit.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not at all, there is a comparison to be drawn here imo. The views of the current
Government and the media they control were and are still are more in line with facism than anyone would care to admit.

Can you elaborate?

In my view anyone who tries to equate the current government with fascism has very little understanding of what fascism actually was

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Your ' tad melodramatic' was a bit glib, to what seemed a fair analysis of what is happening today.
The media use sensationalism and lies to influence people daily and yet an opinion like that is seen as melodramatic?
Am I being oversensitive again? My bad.

Kizzy The Daily Mail (it sells massive amounts)
is putting views not lies.


Just like
the Daily Mirror does


did you miss question time BBC1?
its free to watch online

[Joelle.]

An offence to sleep rough? How exactly are those geniuses going to enforce that. They can't exactly fine them if they have no money and I'm sure anyone sleeping in a cold, damp doorway would welcome a warm prison cell, with food. Hence defeating the object of this whole exercise...

[Kizzy]

Don't patronise me please.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't patronise me please.

I do not need to
i respect you

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

I do not need to
i respect you

That was to MTVN arista.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That was to MTVN arista.

Sorry

[Vicky.]

I don't honestly think its too melodramatic to suggest that they want to kill off the poor

Removing disability benefits from those who needs them while telling them there are plenty of push button with your nose jobs..cutting HB knowing full well that there are no alternatives..seeming to want to abolish benefits altogether..slave labour..when the whole safety net goes as they seem to want, the options will be turn into a criminal (may aswell, being unemployed seems akin to being a criminal now anyway) or die off :S

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't honestly think its too melodramatic to suggest that they want to kill off the poor

Removing disability benefits from those who needs them while telling them there are plenty of push button with your nose jobs..cutting HB knowing full well that there are no alternatives..seeming to want to abolish benefits altogether..slave labour..when the whole safety net goes as they seem to want, the options will be turn into a criminal (may aswell, being unemployed seems akin to being a criminal now anyway) or die off :S

But IDS said those that need help will get it.

"Abolish them" - For Slackers - even Labour will do that

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

But IDS said those that need help will get it.

"Abolish them" - For Slackers - even Labour will do that

If IDS told me the sky was blue I would go outside to check. The man talks so much crap I doubt even he believes it.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't honestly think its too melodramatic to suggest that they want to kill off the poor

Removing disability benefits from those who needs them while telling them there are plenty of push button with your nose jobs..cutting HB knowing full well that there are no alternatives..seeming to want to abolish benefits altogether..slave labour..when the whole safety net goes as they seem to want, the options will be turn into a criminal (may aswell, being unemployed seems akin to being a criminal now anyway) or die off :S

I don't think that could ever be possible though. In reality the amount being spent on welfare is actually still rising year on year, and we're spending far more than we were even just a decade ago, the Tories are more trying to arrest it's growth than overturn it. You are probably more aware of what's being done than me but if there wasn't some kind of reform to welfare the system would have collapsed under the weight of it, even though I can see why people think they are going about the reform in the wrong way

Also all the signs seem to be showing that things are picking up in this country; unemployment is down, housing prices are up, growth is getting stronger and the forecasts for this keep getting revised upwards, it was even being reported yesterday that Britain currently has the fastest rate of growth in the developed world, compared to a lot of Europe right now we're in a comparatively stable position

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I don't think that could ever be possible though. In reality the amount being spent on welfare is actually still rising year on year, and we're spending far more than we were even just a decade ago, the Tories are more trying to arrest it's growth than overturn it. You are probably more aware of what's being done than me but if there wasn't some kind of reform to welfare the system would have collapsed under the weight of it, even though I can see why people think they are going about the reform in the wrong way

Also all the signs seem to be showing that things are picking up in this country; unemployment is down, housing prices are up, growth is getting stronger and the forecasts for this keep getting revised upwards, it was even being reported yesterday that Britain currently has the fastest rate of growth in the developed world, compared to a lot of Europe right now we're in a comparatively stable position

Its rising year on year because we have an aging population. The Tories are doing nothing to arrest its growth as its impossible to do so without touching pensions..and OAPs vote. They KNOW that over half the welfare budget goes on pensions/pension credit and such but they CHOSE to make out that its all JSA and cut away at what little those people have. When in reality they make up a tiny portion of the bill, but are baring the massive brunt of all of this rubbish. Hell, a few sheep even think that JSA/sickness benefit are actually the reason the country is in debt, with special thanks to the daily mail and its ilk.

The economy is picking up (IMO) in spite of the austerity measures, not because of. You cannot cut your way out of a recession.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its rising year on year because we have an aging population. The Tories are doing nothing to arrest its growth as its impossible to do so without touching pensions..and OAPs vote. They KNOW that over half the welfare budget goes on pensions/pension credit and such but they CHOSE to make out that its all JSA and cut away at what little those people have. When in reality they make up a tiny portion of the bill, but are baring the massive brunt of all of this rubbish. Hell, a few sheep even think that JSA/sickness benefit are actually the reason the country is in debt, with special thanks to the daily mail and its ilk.

The economy is picking up (IMO) in spite of the austerity measures, not because of. You cannot cut your way out of a recession.

Pensions is a big part of it but welfare is also rising, in 2005 there was £78b being spent, this year there is close to £117b

Do agree that they are making JSA etc. bear the brunt because like you say it would be political suicide to go after pensions, there's already enough criticism about that we don't do enough to look after our ageing population

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Pensions is a big part of it but welfare is also rising, in 2005 there was £78b being spent, this year there is close to £117b

Do agree that they are making JSA etc. bear the brunt because like you say it would be political suicide to go after pensions, there's already enough criticism about that we don't do enough to look after our ageing population

Comparing to 2005 is a bit iffy really..considering we went through a huge recession

Obviously the bill will rise when more and more people are getting laid off and HAVE to claim benefits to live. Also, a massive proportion of benefits goes to people already in work..since we now have a load of 4 hour per week jobs and 0 hour contracts. This is why I tend to ignore the 'oh we have 100000 more people in work' stuff. Because most of the time, its not a 'real' job, simply a shuffling round and taking a few hours from existing staff to give to other people.

I absolutely disagree that anyone working fulltime (or near to fulltime) hours should have to claim benefits. I suspect if companies were made to pay a living wage (or the cost of living went down, whichever) the benefit bill would drop sharply.

Also, your chart includes pensions anyway, does it not? An looking at that, for the past 4 years or so, everythings been pretty steady

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't honestly think its too melodramatic to suggest that they want to kill off the poor

Removing disability benefits from those who needs them while telling them there are plenty of push button with your nose jobs..cutting HB knowing full well that there are no alternatives..seeming to want to abolish benefits altogether..slave labour..when the whole safety net goes as they seem to want, the options will be turn into a criminal (may aswell, being unemployed seems akin to being a criminal now anyway) or die off :S

I agree with this,a very thought provoking and also a worrying post.

To arista too, I have to say, Duncan Smith, who is someone I would consign to the political scrapheap tomorrow if I had my way, says those who need the most support will get it from his changes.
In fact those people are the very people who are being hit the hardest by his changes and he knows that only too well.
Organisation after organisation has told him but he ignores totally their concerns.

I hate to even allow the thought into my head that any Govt would put into practice a sort of vendetta against the poorest and weakest in society,however everything this Govt does as to welfare reform particularly, totally lacks compassion as to the policies and stinks of some sort of cleansing programme rather than genuine reform.

So back to Vicky's point in her post and I think she makes a very good case indeed as to the real intention behind this Govts welfare policies.