[MeMyselfAndI]

I hope they're killed in prison

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Lets kill them. That'll show everyone what a powerful country we are, and how acts like this won't be tolerated. Oh, actually it won't - it'll just placate some weird blood lust in us and we'll all pretend that justice has been served.

I'll never understand why murder, if it's done for revenge, is seen as acceptable.

Or... we could send them to prison and keep them warm and comfortable at our own expense for the rest of their lives. Then some hand-wringing liberals who are already worrying about the wellbeing of this pair of *******ers, use the Human Rights Act to ensure they aren't mistreated. They'll be ensured access to books and education, religious freedom, a special diet fed to them in three square meals a day, medical treatment, recreation, protection from other prisoners and a pretty cushy time for the rest of their pathetic lives considering what they did to that young soldier and his family.

Oh no wait... that's what we've done.

Hang them, stop them existing in this world. I don't think that's blood-lust or revenge, I think that's justice - the kind of justice they themselves would recognise.

[Kizzy]

Well that's not an option is it? we can only hand down certain sentences in this country... It's a shame but thats how it is.

[Livia]

Yes.... as I said yesterday. At length.

Ideally they should be hanged, like ideally the bloke who punched the pedestrian should have got a longer sentence. I am just voicing my opinion.

Originally Posted by Livia

Or... we could send them to prison and keep them warm and comfortable at our own expense for the rest of their lives. Then some hand-wringing liberals who are already worrying about the wellbeing of this pair of *******ers, use the Human Rights Act to ensure they aren't mistreated. They'll be ensured access to books and education, religious freedom, a special diet fed to them in three square meals a day, medical treatment, recreation, protection from other prisoners and a pretty cushy time for the rest of their pathetic lives considering what they did to that young soldier and his family.

Oh no wait... that's what we've done.

Hang them, stop them existing in this world. I don't think that's blood-lust or revenge, I think that's justice - the kind of justice they themselves would recognise.

Yeah - what a shame it is that the human rights act can prevent us mistreating them. Such a shame that as a species we got together and declared what is the minimum we have to provide for people.

They committed a crime and they've been rightly sent to prison, probably for both of their lives. The rest is irrelevant.

Being locked up in a prison cell all day for 50 years is as close to hell as I could imagine, and if I had the opportunity to take my open life in that situation, I would - without any hesitation, so prison isn't the easiest option.

Why is the aim to murder or mistreat them? How does that make us in any way better than them?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Yeah - what a shame it is that the human rights act can prevent us mistreating them. Such a shame that as a species we got together and declared what is the minimum we have to provide for people.

They committed a crime and they've been rightly sent to prison, probably for both of their lives. The rest is irrelevant.

Being locked up in a prison cell all day for 50 years is as close to hell as I could imagine, and if I had the opportunity to take my open life in that situation, I would - without any hesitation, so prison isn't the easiest option.

Why is the aim to murder or mistreat them? How does that make us in any way better than them?

I wonder who's worrying about Lee Rigby's partner? About his little boy who one day is going to see those pictures - that film... Who's worrying about his parents and what it feels like to see your son hacked to death in the street? They've got a life sentence that I wouldn't want to serve. But hey... let's make sure their killers have plenty of cushions in their cells otherwise they might suffer and we might be accused of being the dispicable ones.

I don't want to mistreat them. I want to take away their privilege of existing. No ceremony, no build up, just - dead. I don't worry about their welfare, they have forfeited any right to my worrying about their feelings. I hope they have a terrible time in there.

The Human Rights Act is all well and good, but it's often used to protect the most vile, the cruellest, the most dispicable and unworthy people in society. As in this case. When it's being used for what it was developed for, then it's another story.

[Kizzy]

In a civilized society you set in place provisos to ensure against vigilantism and savagery, it's called the law.
You cant pick and choose who is entitled to human rights, everyone is regardless of who they are or what they have done.
The removal of civil liberty is the highest punishment we have, it's never going to please all the people all the time is it? I was disappointed at the lenient sentencing handed down for the manslaughter of the vulnerable adult yesterday, and it seems many are unhappy with the whole life term today.

Originally Posted by Livia

I wonder who's worrying about Lee Rigby's partner? About his little boy who one day is going to see those pictures - that film... Who's worrying about his parents and what it feels like to see your son hacked to death in the street? They've got a life sentence that I wouldn't want to serve. But hey... let's make sure their killers have plenty of cushions in their cells otherwise they might suffer and we might be accused of being the dispicable ones.

I don't want to mistreat them. I want to take away their privilege of existing. No ceremony, no build up, just - dead. I don't worry about their welfare, they have forfeited any right to my worrying about their feelings. I hope they have a terrible time in there.

The Human Rights Act is all well and good, but it's often used to protect the most vile, the cruellest, the most dispicable and unworthy people in society. As in this case. When it's being used for what it was developed for, then it's another story.

I was out in the car yesterday with the radio on, and I heard LR's father talking about how he believed justice has been done. However, there really isn't any punishment that could truly act as justice for the family he left behind.

Lets say we kill them quietly without fanfare, then another 5 of these kill another 5 British soldiers in the UK, so we kill them, then another 10 are killed. How exactly is this in anyway benefitting anyone?

The way the people of the UK took to the streets to protest the Iraq war, has actually taken us off some of Islamic terrorist hitlists. That's just one example of how being better than the lowest common denominator will work out better in the long run in the continuing struggle, than fighting death with more death.

[Kyle]

Lee Rigby's partner was on 'this morning' and she specifically stated that executing them would have been giving them exactly what they wanted.

Just thought I would mention that.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Lee Rigby's partner was on 'this morning' and she specifically stated that executing them would have been giving them exactly what they wanted.

Just thought I would mention that.

yes she is right

[Tom4784]

Let them rot in prison and be forgotten , they wanted to be martyrs and now they'll be forgotten losers. Killing them would have just given them what they wanted.

As for the whole 'we're paying to keep them alive' stuff, it costs more to execute someone then it does to keep them alive.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Lee Rigby's partner was on 'this morning' and she specifically stated that executing them would have been giving them exactly what they wanted.

Just thought I would mention that.

Yeah a quote from her from an interview she did thats in the Sun today:

"They wanted to die. They wanted to become martyrs. They said they wanted to be ransomed back to their own people or be killed. They will be denied that in jail, where they will be spending the rest of their days. They dont deserve anything less. If you kill them or ransom them off thats what they want - thats not justice for Lee. They need to be locked up forever because that's what they didnt want. Thats the only thing that gives me comfort"

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I was out in the car yesterday with the radio on, and I heard LR's father talking about how he believed justice has been done. However, there really isn't any punishment that could truly act as justice for the family he left behind.

Lets say we kill them quietly without fanfare, then another 5 of these kill another 5 British soldiers in the UK, so we kill them, then another 10 are killed. How exactly is this in anyway benefitting anyone?

The way the people of the UK took to the streets to protest the Iraq war, has actually taken us off some of Islamic terrorist hitlists. That's just one example of how being better than the lowest common denominator will work out better in the long run in the continuing struggle, than fighting death with more death.

When are they going to stop the killing and "be the better person", or is it just the responsibility of this society in this country? It seems it is. Make exceptions for people who terrorise and act like savages but at least we get to say we didn't retaliate. We just took it. Again.

I'd like to see the evidence that backs up this country having got off lightly because people protested against the Iraq war. I'm sure that's a great comfort to all the people who've suffered from terrorist attrocities. So all we have to do is keep taking it and not retaliate. You know, eventually we will run out of cheeks.

That's very magnanimous of Lee Rigby's family to say they feel justice has been done. Personally speaking, if I could get my hands on the person who set the IED that led to my husband's death I'd happily tear him apart with my bare hands, and I'd take my time... and I'd smile while I was doing it.

Originally Posted by Livia

When are they going to stop the killing and "be the better person", or is it just the responsibility of this society in this country? It seems it is. Make exceptions for people who terrorise and act like savages but at least we get to say we didn't retaliate. We just took it. Again.

I'd like to see the evidence that backs up this country having got off lightly because people protested against the Iraq war. I'm sure that's a great comfort to all the people who've suffered from terrorist attrocities. So all we have to do is keep taking it and not retaliate. You know, eventually we will run out of cheeks.

That's very magnanimous of Lee Rigby's family to say they feel justice has been done. Personally speaking, if I could get my hands on the person who set the IED that led to my husband's death I'd happily tear him apart with my bare hands, and I'd take my time... and I'd smile while I was doing it.

This isn't a new scenario, where the terrorism of one religion dominates the world. You don't change peoples ideologies by having bigger guns, and being more or equally lethal, you do it through actions and dialogue over time. I've never heard of anyone changing their mind on an issue after being beaten into submission. You beat them through debate in the public sphere. You show our values against their values. You show the majority of them the best of us, and they will take care of their own minority.

It's not a fight to see who has the most strength, and who can kill the most people, it's a fight of competing ideologies and methods. It's that simple - we've tried meeting fire with fire and how exactly has that worked out for us?

Youtube video

Watch from about 4:10 to the end.

And I'm sure us taking the piss out of them since the crusades to the present day, offers them equal comfort when we say our troops aren't over there to cause them any harm. Just as another drone lands.

We can go back and forth on this issue as many times as you like, but it just comes down to our own personal beliefs on how a modern Britain should respond to terrorism.

Killing more people has never been the answer to anything, ever. That's just my world view. It doesn't mean I want to fan them with big leafs and feed them grapes as I'm gazing and my naval, and wringing my hands, or any other cliche about liberalism, it just means that I don't want people to be murdered as a means of a punishment.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

This isn't a new scenario, where the terrorism of one religion dominates the world. You don't change peoples ideologies by having bigger guns, and being more or equally lethal, you do it through actions and dialogue over time. I've never heard of anyone changing their mind on an issue after being beaten into submission. You beat them through debate in the public sphere. You show our values against their values. You show the majority of them the best of us, and they will take care of their own minority.

It's not a fight to see who has the most strength, and who can kill the most people, it's a fight of competing ideologies and methods. It's that simple - we've tried meeting fire with fire and how exactly has that worked out for us?

Youtube video

Watch from about 4:10 to the end.

And I'm sure us taking the piss out of them since the crusades to the present day, offers them equal comfort when we say our troops aren't over there to cause them any harm. Just as another drone lands.

We can go back and forth on this issue as many times as you like, but it just comes down to our own personal beliefs on how a modern Britain should respond to terrorism.

Killing more people has never been the answer to anything, ever. That's just my world view. It doesn't mean I want to fan them with big leafs and feed them grapes as I'm gazing and my naval, and wringing my hands, or any other cliche about liberalism, it just means that I don't want people to be murdered as a means of a punishment.

It must be nice to be personally unaffected by all this and assume you have all the answers. I don't agree. I will never agree. We might as well leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Livia

It must be nice to be personally unaffected by all this and assume you have all the answers. I don't agree. I will never agree. We might as well leave it at that.

I don't know why you're acting as my opinions on this matter should come as a surprise. I've been pretty consistent in my views throughout, and you quoted me in this thread this morning, not the other way round. I didn't go looking for this discussion with you.

I don't assume I have all the right anything, but if that's how you felt able to be dismissive towards me for absolutely no good reason, then fill your boots.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I don't know why you're acting as my opinions on this matter should come as a surprise. I've been pretty consistent in my views throughout, and you quoted me in this thread this morning, not the other way round. I didn't go looking for this discussion with you.

I don't assume I have all the right anything, but if that's how you felt able to be dismissive towards me for absolutely no good reason, then fill your boots.

Your opinions don't surprise me. Similarly mine shouldn't come as a surprise to you, surely. I'm dismissive toward you because I disagree entirely. With everything. It's allowed.

Originally Posted by Livia

Your opinions don't surprise me. Similarly mine shouldn't come as a surprise to you, surely. I'm dismissive toward you because I disagree entirely. With everything. It's allowed.

No of course they don't, but I didn't feel the need to be dismissive of you in quite the same way. Like you've already said, we might as well leave it at that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

No of course they don't, but I didn't feel the need to be dismissive of you in quite the same way. Like you've already said, we might as well leave it at that.

I apologise if you felt I was being dismissive. And yes... we should leave it.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Or... we could send them to prison and keep them warm and comfortable at our own expense for the rest of their lives. Then some hand-wringing liberals who are already worrying about the wellbeing of this pair of *******ers, use the Human Rights Act to ensure they aren't mistreated. They'll be ensured access to books and education, religious freedom, a special diet fed to them in three square meals a day, medical treatment, recreation, protection from other prisoners and a pretty cushy time for the rest of their pathetic lives considering what they did to that young soldier and his family.

Oh no wait... that's what we've done.

Hang them, stop them existing in this world. I don't think that's blood-lust or revenge, I think that's justice - the kind of justice they themselves would recognise.

Oh a really brilliant post Livia and the real depressing thing is that every word is true.

The comparisoon oif the 2 scenarios,the brutal murder of Lee and the massive pain inflicted on his family not to mention his young son,all negative.
Then these 2 as you say getting this treatment as the other scenario.

Me, I would have handed them over to the army and turned a blind eye to whatever they saw fit to do with them.
Sorry but this murder really sickened me.

A dog that more than likely knew no better but bit someone badly enough that they died would get put down right off, what these did is an insult to any behaviour and decency as to human and animal existence.

So annoying that they only get what you have so eloquently outlined in your many posts above.
Really well said Livia.

[arista]

[Facebook kept quiet about Rigby killer's plotting: Damning report into soldier's slaughter
by fanatics reveals social media giant's silence over extremist's messages]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3K7wXV8dl


http://news.sky.com/story/1380228/fa...illers-message

[joeysteele]

Okay, facebook have some questions to answer on this, no doubt at all, I hate facebook anyway but in the end facebook cannot be the scapegoat here.

We have security forces that should always be on the lookout for things like this,face book are not security forces, I am just so furious still that Lee Rigby lost his life in this brutal way in his own country.
I really hope soldiers are more looked out for now, this has gone on from last year when this tragic cruel murder took place.

I do find it astonishing that no one else on facebook, if they read this intent to kill a soldier,didn;t alert some authority to it and if anyone did, then why wasn't more done.
Also since this vile pair of things were known and even under suspicion, why weren't they kept under surveillance too.
It seems as in many things ike this, results of what has been concluded, raise more questions than any it answers.

I still can feel really physically sick when I think of what happened to Lee Rigby and my fury at his barbaric murderers just hasn't abated at all.

[lostalex]

is this the cop that killed a black guy that lead to the London riots?

[Ninastar]

Well the woman who was beheaded in public in america a month or so back, had something similar to this...

The man who beheaded her, posted anti-american things all over his facebook... apparently some of it was really violent too...

Surely facebook should be able to see what is posted on their website?

[Northern Monkey]

These two f'cks need strapping to the next two bombs bound for ISIS in Iraq.