[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

I have noticed that in your profile, it says nothing of you being related to Mystic meg so until Helen goes up for public scrutiny, we will need to shelve this hero worship. If you think Ashleigh is a be all and end all winner then show me the money honey, place a bet on her and if you don't bet, then your undying love will do. Sadly Helens supporters don't need to go on the campaign trail like a failing politician to convince people she is good, we already know this fact.

I don't get Helen is good, exceedingly protected and unfairly so.

She has given little except for temper tantrums, made the tone of the house scared and tip toeing around her and contributes less to the house than anyone, she was there because of her notoriety and would have gone weeks ago if BB hadn't thought she needed protection.

Of course her supporters don't need to go on the campaign trail, she has a pass to the final, all Ashleigh supporters can hope for is that her two faces are shown, her rages are shown, her threats against others are shown and her false nice persona gets ripped to shreds when she gets what has been thrown at others, all in the week she is up for eviction.

Just want a level playing field.

BTW Well done Ashleigh, you have shown Helen and the public that a young decent clever girl can play the game better than wannabes, notorious women, pretty boys and nasty people.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I'm cutting through the bullsh*t love. This forum loves the "one rule for one and another for everyone else" line of thinking.

But I notice the responses I get from you when you've ran out of counter arguments.

There is no counter - argument. Ashleigh is the last original female HM standing, as voted by the public and the new HM's. Do you disagree with that or something?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Ashleigh is still there because the public kept her there, and the new HM's kept her there, so she is there legitimately. It's Helen who is very very fortunate to be still there.

We cannot say that Helen would still not be there had she been up, the downfall and eviction of Ash has been predicted for the whole series for instance,yet he has defied the odds,as many past housemates have in past series too.

There have at times,despite being kept in, been chants of get Ashleigh out on eviction nights.
She is doing better now admittedly and has appeared so far to turn things around for herself but she has come close to going and it may well have been too that Helen may have come close to going but actually not gone either.

I still think after the female power week, that Ashleigh for her part in that,is fortunate to still be there,she would have been out for me just as for you Helen would be out anyway anytime.

I want Ashleigh out but I want Steven out more so I will be voting to evict him this week, that doesn't mean Ashleigh has won any of my support despite the fact she will stay.
It is just I want someone else out this week more than her so she won't get the high volume of votes she would have got from me had Steven not been up for eviction.

Sometimes it is simply a case of the public wanting several up for eviction in a week out but wanting one out more than the others at the time.
It doesn't mean they necessarily like or support the other housemate/s saved.

[jet]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I don't get Helen is good, exceedingly protected and unfairly so.

She has given little except for temper tantrums, made the tone of the house scared and tip toeing around her and contributes less to the house than anyone, she was there because of her notoriety and would have gone weeks ago if BB hadn't thought she needed protection.

Of course her supporters don't need to go on the campaign trail, she has a pass to the final, all Ashleigh supporters can hope for is that her two faces are shown, her rages are shown, her threats against others are shown and her false nice persona gets ripped to shreds when she gets what has been thrown at others, all in the week she is up for eviction.

Just want a level playing field.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

There is no counter - argument. Ashleigh is the last original female HM standing, as voted by the public and the new HM's. Do you disagree with that or something?

Yes, because Helen - an original female - is still in there too.

Both Helen and Ashleigh have been saved by twists and without those twists both would have likely been evicted before now.

Again, it's not one rule for one and another for the other.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by jet

There is no counter - argument. Ashleigh is the last original female HM standing, as voted by the public and the new HM's. Do you disagree with that or something?

I disagree, the show is run on a set of rules, guidelines and scenarios. Just because one person has been up for eviction and another has taken a different route, you cant say one is better or more popular than the other.

This question gets answered when they are both put before the jury and the votes are counted. Circumstantial and pretty weak hero worship tactics citing facts not in evidence amounts to a Kangroo court verdict, which in real life holds no judicial value at all.

I think that puts the argument to bed now does it not.

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

I disagree, the show is run on a set of rules, guidelines and scenarios. Just because one person has been up for eviction and another has taken a different route, you cant say one is better or more popular than the other.

This question gets answered when they are both put before the jury and the votes are counted. Circumstantial and pretty weak hero worship tactics citing facts not in evidence amounts to a Kangroo court verdict, which in real life holds no judicial value at all.

I think that puts the argument to bed now does it not.

Absolutely not

When Helen and Ashleigh stand face to face for eviction then your argument will stand.

A free pass to the final, 15 warnings and a final warning does not make an even playing field against someone who has been up for eviction several times and survived every time.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, because Helen - an original female - is still in there too.

Both Helen and Ashleigh have been saved by twists and without those twists both would have likely been evicted before now.

Again, it's not one rule for one and another for the other.

How can you actually compare Helen being give a pass to the final right at the start of the show with what Ashleigh has survived? Mind boggles if you actually serious

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Achilles

How can you actually compare Helen being give a pass to the final right at the start of the show with what Ashleigh has survived? Mind boggles if you actually serious

Because they were both saved by twists.

Why's it so hard for you to wrap your brain around it?

[Shaun]

People seriously believe Helen would have survived ANY eviction? lol

OK, fair enough, maybe against Pauline.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because they were both saved by twists.

Why's it so hard for you to wrap your brain around it?

Helen was never "SAVED". She was given a final pass right at the beginning and so completely avoided everything that has followed.
You cannot be saved if you are in no danger to begin with.
HELEN HAS BEEN IMMUNE SINCE THE BEGINNING

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Absolutely not

When Helen and Ashleigh stand face to face for eviction then your argument will stand.

A free pass to the final, 15 warnings and a final warning does not make an even playing field against someone who has been up for eviction several times and survived every time.

Sadly opinions are just what they say, opinions. Facts overtrump opinions so till that day of reckoning arrives, we remain advisories in the wonderful world of reality tv and cyber warriorhood.

[DigitalMethod]

Its a shame this board doesn't allow users to insult each other because some of the delusional idiots that post here would be sent crying with their tails between their legs if we could truly GO IN on them.

As if Helen would survive any public vote. The stupidity i tell ya.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Achilles

Helen was never "SAVED". She was given a final pass right at the beginning and so completely avoided everything that has followed.
You cannot be saved if you are in no danger to begin with.
HELEN HAS BEEN IMMUNE SINCE THE BEGINNING

Yes.... that finale pass...... is a twist...... you're getting there.....

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, because Helen - an original female - is still in there too.

Both Helen and Ashleigh have been saved by twists and without those twists both would have likely been evicted before now.

Again, it's not one rule for one and another for the other.

But Helen is untested because she has a free pass - and would almost certainly have gone long ago. How anyone could think Helen would still be there the first few weeks when she was vile and obnoxious and given a final warning for bullying is beyond me - unless they admire that sort of behaviour - and the British public don't, as no one like that has ever won.

As I said before Ashleigh is the only original top female HM left standing LEGITIMATELY, as voted for by the public and the new HM's.
I wish I didn't have to keep repeating myself Winston.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

I wish I didn't have to keep repeating myself Winston.

It's a shame when you have to resort to lame attempts at personal insults because you've ran out of things to say.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because they were both saved by twists.

Why's it so hard for you to wrap your brain around it?

Because your argument is so weak the brain discards it as worthless.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's a shame when you have to resort to lame attempts at personal insults because you've ran out of things to say.

I'm just speechless actually, because you are usually smarter than you are being right now, which makes me think you are pulling a Winston.

And it is you who have run out of things to say as you didn't even respond to what I DID say...

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Sadly opinions are just what they say, opinions. Facts overtrump opinions so till that day of reckoning arrives, we remain advisories in the wonderful world of reality tv and cyber warriorhood.

And the facts are

Helen is immune

Ashleigh survived several evictions

Improvise all you like.

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

And the facts are

Helen is immune

Ashleigh survived several evictions

Improvise all you like.

Discussions cause arguments, facts solve them. Discussing a might be, is a waste of time. Facts will solve this issue when they go up. Their paths to the final are different but they are both paths still within the rules and guidelines of BB and therefore the same regardless of you or anyone elses opinions.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

And it is you who have run out of things to say as you didn't even respond to what I DID say...

I've not. My response is the same as before. I won't repeat myself.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Because your argument is so weak the brain discards it as worthless.

It's not weak.

The both of them only remain in the house at this point due to twists. A very simple fact.

[Achilles]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's not weak.

The both of them only remain in the house at this point due to twists. A very simply fact.

Here is another fact.
Ashleigh has only been put in danger as a result of multiple twists.
Helen has NEVER been in danger EVER.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Achilles

Here is another fact.
Ashleigh has only been put in danger as a result of multiple twists.
Helen has NEVER been in danger EVER.

Which is irrelevant to the point of the thread which is that they are both the last remaining original females.

You can't exclude Helen because she's been kept in via a twist, Ashleigh has too.

[jet]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Discussions cause arguments, facts solve them. Discussing a might be, is a waste of time. Facts will solve this issue when they go up. Their paths to the final are different but they are both paths still within the rules and guidelines of BB and therefore the same regardless of you or anyone elses opinions.

It's a fact that Ashleigh is the only female HM left standing without the benefit of a pass.

It's therefore a fact she is the one who has come out on top of all the females, as the whole point is to stay in the house as long as possible even though you are legible for nomination and eviction.

It's a fact that we can't possibly say whether Helen would still be there or not is she didn't have the pass.

It's a fact that Ashleigh is still there.
Agreed?