[Kyle]

I'm going to bookmark this thread because I have a feeling this is going to be a good one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I'm going to bookmark this thread because I have a feeling this is going to be a good one.

Woman has a friend who is writing a book on subject.

Woman says all the conspiracy theories are bogus


Not looking good for thread

[Novo]

She is still alive hiding out in Costa Rica

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by NovoBaratheon

She is still alive hiding out in Costa Rica

Riding Shergar with Elvis at the back of her and Lord Lucan shouting his support from the 92nd floor of a nearby vanilla skyscraper.

[Marsh.]

I have a friend who was there the night she died and is making a film based around the events that lead to her murder.

True dat.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I have a friend who was there the night she died and is making a film based around the events that lead to her murder.

True dat.

Oh Lord Marsh.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh Lord Marsh.

Don't diss my friend.

[Cal.]

Marilyn was different from the others as she was threatening to expose the Kennedys, and apparently had a journal logging everything about her respective affairs with each of them.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

Marilyn was different from the others as she was threatening to expose the Kennedys, and apparently had a journal logging everything about her respective affairs with each of them.

Ok then explain why Judith Exner or Mimi Alford was able to do the same thing while they had both been having affairs at the same time as Marilyn, they had also knew about secret information about the Cuban missile crisis amongst other private things, the Kennedy's were simply reckless men and really didn't care about these woman who might of known those things, they were certainly Not worried about any of these woman going public or exposing the Kennedy family... could you imagine how that would of wrecked Marilyn public image? Judith was actually pregnant by JFK late 1962 so why wasn't she disposed by him or Bobby...? it just seems odd that everyone assume's that Marilyn's relationship was more special...it really wasn't as i have said these woman that JKF or bobby were involved with knew exactly what Marilyn had known so what?

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

Marilyn was different from the others as she was threatening to expose the Kennedys, and apparently had a journal logging everything about her respective affairs with each of them.

The one thing that nobody from the conspiracy camp can seem to tell me is HOW did the Kennedy's actually kill Marilyn?
how did they make Marilyn take those pills without being forced to do it.

She died from a drugover dose...is this the normal way to kill somebody? if i was one of the Kennedy brother's
i would of come up with a better murder plan then a bottle of pills...not the usual way to have someone killed is it?

[Cal.]

She was sedated and then smothered. In the Channel 5 documentary, a man who had heard the tapes from Marilyn's house (the FBI had the whole place rigged up with audio recording devices) heard Robert Kennedy and two other men arrive at Marilyn's home. This is backed up from neighbours who were having a gathering at home, who had seen Robert Kennedy and Entourage arrive at the house. Robert came to confront Marilyn a final time over her repeated threats that she was going to expose the Kennedys. The documentary also said JFK was at the home, and was heard saying 'Give her something to calm her down' when Marilyn was screaming '**** you! I'm Marilyn Monroe!'. This implies Marilyn was sedated by the men, and then according to the man in the documentary who heard the tapes, it was implied that Robert Kennedy proceeded to smother her to death. Then followed the cover up: Marilyn's body being placed in the unusual position it was found in, the bottle of empty pills conveniently nearby, and the whole room looking very tidy: fresh linen was even on the bed.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

She was sedated and then smothered. In the Channel 5 documentary, a man who had heard the tapes from Marilyn's house (the FBI had the whole place rigged up with audio recording devices) heard Robert Kennedy and two other men arrive at Marilyn's home. This is backed up from neighbours who were having a gathering at home, who had seen Robert Kennedy and Entourage arrive at the house. Robert came to confront Marilyn a final time over her repeated threats that she was going to expose the Kennedys. The documentary also said JFK was at the home, and was heard saying 'Give her something to calm her down' when Marilyn was screaming '**** you! I'm Marilyn Monroe!'. This implies Marilyn was sedated by the men, and then according to the man in the documentary who heard the tapes, it was implied that Robert Kennedy proceeded to smother her to death. Then followed the cover up: Marilyn's body being placed in the unusual position it was found in, the bottle of empty pills conveniently nearby, and the whole room looking very tidy: fresh linen was even on the bed.

She was Not smothered there was no signs of any struggle where is your actual proof of this? it certainly was Not in the official autopsy report... where are you getting your information from and please don't mention the murder theory books, you are better off putting those books in the trash IMO

That man was not telling the truth, there was no actual evidence of any tapes being shown on that program? why would you believe someone that had said that by hear say...speculation...and lies? why would you believe that person without hearing the actual real tapes that doesn't make any sense.

[Livia]

Marilyn Monroe was a big fan of enemas. She spoke quite candidly about them and the fact she was a fan. A lot of famous people were back then, it was kind of fashionable.

People can write volumes about what they think happened but the weight of your evidence doesn’t increase with your word count. The fact is that if there was as much real evidence as people claim the case would have been solved years ago. I think many people would be happier to think there was a great conspiracy involving the premature death of one of the world’s most famous and beautiful women, admired by men from the president down. However, the unglamorous truth in my opinion is that she was famously an insecure, sad, depressive woman who died of an overdose administered via an enema by her housekeeper - a service she'd performed for Marilyn many times before.

Eunice Murray, Marilyn’s housekeeper, was the women who alerted the police that she’d found Marilyn dead. When the police arrived, the washing machine was running. Seems strange to me that at a time like that, doing a load of washing was of paramount importance. Unless… it was to destroy evidence.


So, I’m going with… the Housekeeper… in the bedroom… with an enema.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Livia

Marilyn Monroe was a big fan of enemas. She spoke quite candidly about them and the fact she was a fan. A lot of famous people were back then, it was kind of fashionable.



So, I’m going with… the Housekeeper… in the bedroom… with an enema.

Again there was no actual signs of any struggle in the autopsy report and there was nothing suspicious with anything entering that part of Marilyn's body? i'm not sure how Mrs Murray who was also quite a smallish framed lady would of been able to sedate Marilyn unconscious then lift her body weight so she could self -administrate an enema...? in fact enema's were not fashionable and was never something ever reported in that era of the 1960's?

Can i ask have you read the entire official autopsy report obviously Not because you would of read the following FACTS - if an enema had been used then how was a stool found in her system at the autopsy, don't you think the enema would expel any contents from the colon opening of the rectum, who ever you think was administrating this to Marilyn would of had great difficulty even applying this type of procedure if the other person was unconscious? What is the actual purpose of an enema, it is for clearing out contents from the colon by expelling and Not by absorbing, so do you see the dilemma there?

Here are some of the facts found in the official autopsy report :


A, The discoloration found in her colon was on the OUTSIDE of the colon wall. It was also further up than the colon entrance where an enema would have taken place. There was no inflammation at the colon entrance.

B, There was a stool present in the colon. Something that would have been gone had an enema taken place don't you think?

C, Marilyn's bloodstream contained the very drugs she had bought herself the day before in a quantity matching the prescription. She also had a lethal amount of chloral hydrate in her blood. Was THAT in the enema too???

D, The inflamed stomach lining is a clear give away that the drugs were taken orally. Enema conspiracy people ignore this entirely.

This proves that no enema had been used as a means to administer drugs to Marilyn, it was her daily habit to take them orally (as the pill bottles on her nightstand attest to this?.

WHO in their right mind would want to have an enema anyways? it isn't pleasant....especially when pills were handy...let's get realistic here!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

Again there was no actual sign's of any struggle in the autopsy report and there was nothing suspicious with anything entering that part of Marilyn's body? i'm not sure how Mrs Murray who was also quite a smallish framed lady would of been able to sedate Marilyn unconscious then lift her body weight so she could self -administrate an enema...? in fact enema's were not fashionable and was never something ever reported in that era of the 1960's?

There weren't any signs of a struggle because Marilyn was a regular enema recipient and I suggest that it was given at Marilyn's request. And in fact they were very fashionable about that time and used for weight loss, mainly. She wouldn't have to lift the body, just roll it.

Like jack the Ripper, like the Kennedy assassination, there is never going to be a right answer after all this time.

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

She was Not smothered there was no signs of any struggle where is your actual proof of this? it certainly was Not in the official autopsy report... where are you getting your information from and please don't mention the murder theory books, your are better off putting those books in the trash IMH.

That man was not telling the truth, there was no actual evidence of any tapes being shown on that program? why would you believe someone that had said that by hear say...speculation...and lies? why would you believe that person without hearing the actual real tapes that doesn't make any sense.

I said many times I was getting my information from the documentary - the man said she was smothered on the tape, I can't remember how he knew this - how would a gentle smothering (considering she had been sedated so wouldn't have struggled) show up on an autopsy anyway? And I don't read murder theory books, I never mentioned murder theory books - where are you getting this information from?

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by Who Is She?

I said many times I was getting my information from the documentary - the man said she was smothered on the tape, I can't remember how he knew this - how would a gentle smothering (considering she had been sedated so wouldn't have struggled) show up on an autopsy anyway? And I don't read murder theory books, I never mentioned murder theory books - where are you getting this information from?

And like i have said why would you believe hear say and speculation without hearing the actual real tapes? all of those theories mentioned on that program have all since been debunked, i was very disappointed that it went over the same old murder theories without having any actual evidence to back it up?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

And like i have said why would you believe hear say and speculation without hearing the actual real tapes? all of those theories mentioned on that program have all since been debunked, i was very disappointed that it went over the same old murder theories without having any actual evidence to back it up?

Source please.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

She was Not smothered there was no signs of any struggle where is your actual proof of this? it certainly was Not in the official autopsy report... where are you getting your information from and please don't mention the murder theory books, you are better off putting those books in the trash IMH.

That man was not telling the truth, there was no actual evidence of any tapes being shown on that program? why would you believe someone that had said that by hear say...speculation...and lies? why would you believe that person without hearing the actual real tapes that doesn't make any sense.

Listen to yourself! You are guilty of the same practices which you are critising others on here for.

Why do you believe that there were no tapes? The tapes did exist - numerous credible witnesses heard them, and if they never existed, then why were they seized by the Secret service and why did Otash lodge a law suite in 1966 to have them returned?

What are your sources for stating your theories with such conviction? Or should I be asking where do you keep your Time machine?

I personally welcome any debate on here but please don't attempt to belittle other people because they don't agree with you, and please don't respond to a post by merely ridiculing that post and reiterating your own viewpoints without also answering the original points with valid counterpoints supported by rational reasons for those counterpoints.

[Mazz01]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Listen to yourself! You are guilty of the same practices which you are critising other on here for.

Why do you believe that there were no tapes? The tapes did exist - numerous credible witnesses heard them, and if they never existed, then why were they seized by the Secret service and why did Otash lodge a law suite in 1966 to have them returned?

What are your sources for stating your theories with such conviction? Or should I be asking where do you keep your Time machine?

I personally welcome any debate on here but please don't attempt to belittle other people because they don't agree with you, and please don't respond to a post by merely ridiculing that post and reiterating your own viewpoints without also answering the original points with valid counterpoints supported by rational reasons for those counterpoints.

Hmm i wasn't trying to belittle anyone it's how i come across when i write on these type of forums, i have not said anything to insult anyone i'm not sure why you are getting so defensive? i made my points but you seem to have taken it out of context has me trying to say that i'm right and everyone is wrong, No that is not what i was doing...i just wanted to know why people are so easily swayed with believing these FACTS that do not show any real evidence to the contrary? you say that there were actual tapes of Marilyn's house being bugged so where are these tapes now... and who are these people saying that they had actually heard them, it seems odd that anyone can make these claims without showing any real evidence to back up their claims, and why would you believe those people if you had not heard the evidence for yourself?

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And what a 'police report' - Jack Clemmons a 15 year LA Police Veteran, who is the first officer on the scene, sees through the B.S staged death scene, notes rigor mortis in the corpse, detects Housekeeper Eunice Murray's 'vagueness and evasiveness, and perceives how overly desperate Marilyn's psychiatrist Ralph Greenson was to convince him that Marilyn committed suicide by swallowing the contents of all the empty pill bottles so conveniently arranged on her bedside table - complete with their caps all neatly screwed back on. Clemmons does not buy into this 'suicide' and declares that Marilyn was murdered. Within one hour Clemmons is replaced by Det Sgt Sergeant Marvin Iannone Bobby Kennedy's own personal 'dirty Tricks' cop and the very cop who'd been at the house earlier.

Clemmons views were 'dismissed' as was the evidence of Marilyn's neighbour along with other witness evidence not favourable to the 'official' sanitised Kennedy-friendly version of events.

As to the glass on the floor which 'turned up' on later photographs, the original officers on the scene swear it was not there when they inspected Marilyn's bedroom upon their arrival. That's a big a mystery as the blood smears on the bedroom wall seen in early police photographs but which magically have disappeared in later versions, and Eunice Murrays changing testimony - among other 'mysteries'.

Lets see, you must of read several murder theories provided by Clemmons who had actually changed his official eye witness statement on that death report? see i think it's very important to not get wrapped up in all these conspiracy books and read from the official police report stated in 1962, where do you see any of Clemmons evidence suggesting Marilyn's body had been moved and a missing glass or Mrs Murray washing bed sheets in that 1962 report? all these details had suddenly changed in a book written by murder theorist Robert Slatzer in the 1970's when he had contacted Clemmons, Slatzer who is a notorious liar a man who confessed that he was once married to Marilyn in 1952, this was certainly Not true which had been debunked by many of Marilyn's close friends?

I really think you have been HAD on why Clemmons had changed his official police testimony, this officer had actually been fired from the Police department on grounds of ill practices that went against all police rules, he then decides to give a tell all story to Robert Slatzer about missing evidence of Marilyn's body being moved and the mysterious bed sheets being washed? and all this right in front of other police officers at the scene who had Not even witness any of this going on?...i mean come on!!! it's all lies i'm afraid.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Mazz01

Hmm i wasn't trying to belittle anyone it's how i come across when i write on these type of forums, i have not said anything to insult anyone i'm not sure why you are getting so defensive? i made my points but you seem to have taken it out of context has me trying to say that i'm right and everyone is wrong, No that is not what i was doing...i just wanted to know why people are so easily swayed with believing these FACTS that do not show any real evidence to the contrary? you say that there were actual tapes of Marilyn's house being bugged so where are these tapes now... and who are these people saying that they had actually heard them, it seems odd that anyone can make these claims without showing any real evidence to back up their claims, and why would you believe those people if you had not heard the evidence for yourself?

There were several witnesses who had heard these tapes on the Channel 5 documentary which you purport to have studied. How did you miss them? Ray Strait listened to over 11 hours of these tapes.

Fred Otash secreted the tapes but upon his death the Secret Service stripped all three properties which Otash owned and the tapes - along with other documents - disappeared never to be seen again. At the same time, a filing cabinet containing Otash's most sensitive material was taken from his apartment by his lawyer and the contents of that too was never seen again.

The evidence from varied sources that these tapes existed is compelling, which is one of the reasons why I personally believe that they existed. Fred Otash's 1966 law suite to have them returned is conclusive proof.

Because they existed, and because there is also compelling evidence that Otash did bug Marilyn's house (as he bugged Rock Hudson's and others) and because the witnesses who claim to have heard the tapes come across as honest and very credible, and because their links to Otash and Marilyn are proven, then I also believe what they say regarding the contents of the tapes.

Again Mazz - what source do you rely on for you not to believe all this very credible evidence and testimony?

[Cal.]

If you're so adamant your friend has never read up on these enemas - then they clearly haven't been doing very good research considering the subject is brought up in pretty much every speculation article on Marilyn's death. A brief Google search brings me to that conclusion.