[Marsh.]

Sorry, I didn't realise you were an e-cig salesman.

[arista]

Can someone please post the Video


I want to see if she is Pornographic

[Livia]

Oh no, for the sake of the children, keep e-cig adverts off the telly! Because not advertising on TV has worked so well keeping kids off drugs, right?

Kids will try stuff whether it's advertised or not. I'd be far more concerned about cheap booze being advertised on telly. The anti-smoking Gestapo are not going to allow e-cigs to get a foothold, even though they don't contain tobacco. And yes more research is needed because nicotine's addictive. But so it caffeine, and yet drinking coffee is not only socially acceptable, it's positively encouraged. Seems ridiculous...

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

All these 'sexy' vaping products are destined for the UK it seems, so we have spent millions on anti smoking campaigns and now there's some other nicotine based product specifically targeting young people to take their place. :/

[TerryTagnut]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Sorry, I didn't realise you were an e-cig salesman.

I don't sell them. But they saved my life in the most literal sense. Why is it so wrong to be passionate about something so positive?

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Vegetable glycerine is an oil, food isn't absorbed into your lungs is it tel?
You already stated there is 24g or 36g of nicotine in this product, comparatively how much is in a spud?

If I were you I would get a better handle on what you put in your body if you want a career as a personal trainer, who wants to employ a fitness expert who smells of oily custard..

Thankfully, a lot of people in this world will celebrate my change of lifestyle and see the positives. We all have our foibles - some are addicted to trash tv; rotting their mind and soul, some just sit on their backsides all day. However, I think it's good to look for the good in other people though, rather than sit back in judgement waving the finger of self-righteous indignation.

The reason I'm so passionate about ecigs is because they work. I tried every conceivable method to try and quit, every type of NRT, gums, patches, sprays etc. Nothing worked. The first day I tried vaping, I quit - and haven't smoked since. My peak flow is a clear indicator that my health has vastly improved.

Vegetable glycerin is often used to sweeten foods. It is used in both foods, medical and pharmaceutical products. As for nicotine, again, the amounts of nicotine is not really the issue. The quantities used in an ecig pose the same sort of risks as caffeine. People erroneously believe it's the nicotine that is the bad guy, but it's really the tar and the other 4000 chemicals in them. In fact, a lot of recent research are starting to show that nicotine can be beneficial to health, esp for the treatment of alzheimers.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/trave...itte%E2%80%8Br


With smoking there is combustion. Ecigs, there is no combustion.

I laugh when I see the argument that ecigs are targeting children. This is just a mindless argument that has been instilled by the media. Who is targeting children? No, ecigs are targeting adults. Potentially millions upon millions of lives could be saved if people switched to ecigs. It's as simple as that. Real lives, real people.

Let's think of the adults for a change?

And here's the opinion from the world's authority on these types of things:

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by TerryTagnut

I don't sell them. But they saved my life in the most literal sense. Why is it so wrong to be passionate about something so positive?



Thankfully, a lot of people in this world will celebrate my change of lifestyle and see the positives. We all have our foibles - some are addicted to trash tv; rotting their mind and soul, some just sit on their backsides all day. However, I think it's good to look for the good in other people though, rather than sit back in judgement waving the finger of self-righteous indignation.

The reason I'm so passionate about ecigs is because they work. I tried every conceivable method to try and quit, every type of NRT, gums, patches, sprays etc. Nothing worked. The first day I tried vaping, I quit - and haven't smoked since. My peak flow is a clear indicator that my health has vastly improved.

Vegetable glycerin is often used to sweeten foods. It is used in both foods, medical and pharmaceutical products. As for nicotine, again, the amounts of nicotine is not really the issue. The quantities used in an ecig pose the same sort of risks as caffeine. People erroneously believe it's the nicotine that is the bad guy, but it's really the tar and the other 4000 chemicals in them. In fact, a lot of recent research are starting to show that nicotine can be beneficial to health, esp for the treatment of alzheimers.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/trave...itte%E2%80%8Br


With smoking there is combustion. Ecigs, there is no combustion.

I laugh when I see the argument that ecigs are targeting children. This is just a mindless argument that has been instilled by the media. Who is targeting children? No, ecigs are targeting adults. Potentially millions upon millions of lives could be saved if people switched to ecigs. It's as simple as that. Real lives, real people.

Let's think of the adults for a change?

And here's the opinion from the world's authority on these types of things:

Youtube video

I'll look past all the waffle if you don't mind and just say this if you want to stop smoking then stop, using any other contraption or aid as a crutch suggests you are still addicted so this endevour has not helped you in any way whatsoever.
My initial response was to the oil, I see your links and commentary on the comparisons to the food industry but that is irrelevant here.
The claims that nicotine has any specific neurological benefit is not made by any reputable scientific establishment, therefore isn't really of any merit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...te-liquid.html

[arista]

Thats not the UK TV video


Loose Women, yesterday
informed us
it is Pornographic

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Thats not the UK TV video


Loose Women, yesterday
informed us
it is Pornographic

No it isn't, those are the products coming to the UK.

Is this it on here?
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandc...ish-tv-tonight

[Marsh.]

I think they were referring to the ones already airing which had slogans like "Put it in your mouth and taste it" being very sexualised.

You're obsessed with porn arista.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I think they were referring to the ones already airing which had slogans like "Put it in your mouth and taste it" being very sexualised.

You're obsessed with porn arista.

You Can Talk.


It was what the Loose Woman Panel
said yesterday

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by arista

You Can Talk.


It was what the Loose Woman Panel
said yesterday

What are you trying to say?

[lily.]

I am hearing/reading about non-smokers starting to use e-cigs. I don't know if this is just rumour, but it seems a bit mental.

[Kizzy]

I know, look at the expo it's crazy there's a vape thing that looks like a pokemon bong :/

I guess it's just a case of sex sells, and it's just one more thing that's avoidable if you want to stay healthy but the target market is a bit young an that's what sticks in my craw.

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I know, look at the expo it's crazy there's a vape thing that looks like a pokemon bong :/

I guess it's just a case of sex sells, and it's just one more thing that's avoidable if you want to stay healthy but the target market is a bit young an that's what sticks in my craw.

Mine too.

[TerryTagnut]

Waffle?

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-lis...-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by TerryTagnut

Waffle?

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-lis...-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah)

I thought it was a great post Terry. Welcome to the forum

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by TerryTagnut

Waffle?

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-lis...-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah)

I like you already

Welcome!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by TerryTagnut

Waffle?

Damn, I thought a forum was for sharing information and maybe educating ourselves and getting involved and evolving as a person and all that.

But hey, never let facts get in a way of an ingrained but ignorant opinion.

But, if you ever want to dip your toe into some research here's some links:

http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-lis...-their-safety/

Or maybe the following pic is more your cup of tea/coffee (oops sorry, I'm guessing you don't drink these addictive substances - think of the children blah blah blah)

Excuse me but you quoted me first terry, and you still haven't addressed my concerns about the oil in ecigs adequately at least my opinion is based on research and not simply the fact that they are my fix of choice.
Not sure why you're attempting to patronise me about drinking coffee and yes I am thinking of the children actually it's no bad thing is it?

[TerryTagnut]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I thought it was a great post Terry. Welcome to the forum

Thankies!

Originally Posted by LiamPRW

I like you already

Welcome!

Whoohoo lucky me

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Excuse me but you quoted me first terry, and you still haven't addressed my concerns about the oil in ecigs adequately at least my opinion is based on research and not simply the fact that they are my fix of choice.
Not sure why you're attempting to patronise me about drinking coffee and yes I am thinking of the children actually it's no bad thing is it?

Patronising?

I have answered your concerns over vegetable glycerine. I've even linked you to some juicy links which shows the positives of ecigs.

Would you be willing to answer the following questions Kizzy?

Do you drink tea or coffee? They are both drugs.
Do you consume sugar? Most dieticians regard sugar as a recreational drug.
Do you consume alcohol?
Do you take regular exercise?
Are you overweight?

I'll answer those questions first. I might drink a few cups of tea a day (usually black) and have an occasional coffee. Mainly though, I drink herbal tea. I don't drink alcohol, and I avoid sugar. I do regular cardiovascular exercise and train with weights. I train for marathons and currently learning to rock climb. In short, I'm a very very boring person

That said, I have no problems whatsoever if people enjoy getting ratarsed, can't be bothered to do any exercise and drink coffee like it's going out of fashion. It's their life - non of my business (although tbh, I do think of the children sometimes when I see shelf after shelf stacked with sugar-laden chocolate, a recreational drug clearly aimed at children).

However, I do enjoy my nicotine (my drug of choice, just like alcohol or caffeine might be other people's choice). I now enjoy my nicotine in a far healthier manner.

If you answered yes to any of the questions above btw, would you consider me patronising for rebuking you because you enjoy them?

Sorry for the waffle (!) but I think this is important. I have tried over and over again to give up cigarettes (and if used according to the instructions, will probably kill you). Traditional NRT (gums, patches, sprays) have over a 90% failure rate (in other words, they do not work but line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry). NRT never worked for me. You can give me the line about "just give up". But only a non smoker would ever say such a thing. Fact is fact. I have tried and failed. But succeeded by using an ecig.

Now, even the most ardent opponent of ecigs would have to concur that ecigs are without question, far far far safer than using a cigarette. Couple that with the fact that, for some, just giving up smoking is impossible, then what do you do?

Just condemn people to die a horrendous fate, just because you and the Daily Mail can't stand the idea of people enjoying themselves?

I'm not sure how to answer your question about the "think of the children" line tbh. How do you want me to think about them precisely? That line is usually dragged out when there's a lack of supporting evidence to bolster a proper line of argument.

For some reason, the Daily Mail has an agenda against ecigs. It completely ignores the positive, but blatantly lies week after week with half truths and misinformation. That link you gave earlier, about diacetyl. At the moment diacetyl is a contentious issue in the vaping community, but it's only found in some and not all eliquids. It's also a problem being address, making sure future liquids will not contain these chemicals. And even if they did, they would still be far far far far safer than smoking a traditional cigarette. It's scare tactics, it's taking something and completely distorting it to fit an agenda.

If you want to criticise ecigs because of a weakness that can be remedied, then you might as well criticise water because some people drown in it. In other words, you can change things to make them safer. In other words, it's not a legitimate argument against the inherent positives of ecigs.

Anyway, sorry about the waffle. But I look forward to your answers. Is stoicism really the answer? Is pleasure such a bad thing? Who gives anyone the right to pass judgement, just because they personally don't like it? You can drag up as many children as you want, but the fact remains; if you try to prevent people from using ecigs, then you would be condemning millions and millions of people to an early demise. This is fact.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by TerryTagnut

Thankies!



Whoohoo lucky me



Patronising?

I have answered your concerns over vegetable glycerine. I've even linked you to some juicy links which shows the positives of ecigs.

Would you be willing to answer the following questions Kizzy?

Do you drink tea or coffee? They are both drugs.
Do you consume sugar? Most dieticians regard sugar as a recreational drug.
Do you consume alcohol?
Do you take regular exercise?
Are you overweight?

I'll answer those questions first. I might drink a few cups of tea a day (usually black) and have an occasional coffee. Mainly though, I drink herbal tea. I don't drink alcohol, and I avoid sugar. I do regular cardiovascular exercise and train with weights. I train for marathons and currently learning to rock climb. In short, I'm a very very boring person

That said, I have no problems whatsoever if people enjoy getting ratarsed, can't be bothered to do any exercise and drink coffee like it's going out of fashion. It's their life - non of my business (although tbh, I do think of the children sometimes when I see shelf after shelf stacked with sugar-laden chocolate, a recreational drug clearly aimed at children).

However, I do enjoy my nicotine (my drug of choice, just like alcohol or caffeine might be other people's choice). I now enjoy my nicotine in a far healthier manner.

If you answered yes to any of the questions above btw, would you consider me patronising for rebuking you because you enjoy them?

Sorry for the waffle (!) but I think this is important. I have tried over and over again to give up cigarettes (and if used according to the instructions, will probably kill you). Traditional NRT (gums, patches, sprays) have over a 90% failure rate (in other words, they do not work but line the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry). NRT never worked for me. You can give me the line about "just give up". But only a non smoker would ever say such a thing. Fact is fact. I have tried and failed. But succeeded by using an ecig.

Now, even the most ardent opponent of ecigs would have to concur that ecigs are without question, far far far safer than using a cigarette. Couple that with the fact that, for some, just giving up smoking is impossible, then what do you do?

Just condemn people to die a horrendous fate, just because you and the Daily Mail can't stand the idea of people enjoying themselves?

I'm not sure how to answer your question about the "think of the children" line tbh. How do you want me to think about them precisely? That line is usually dragged out when there's a lack of supporting evidence to bolster a proper line of argument.

For some reason, the Daily Mail has an agenda against ecigs. It completely ignores the positive, but blatantly lies week after week with half truths and misinformation. That link you gave earlier, about diacetyl. At the moment diacetyl is a contentious issue in the vaping community, but it's only found in some and not all eliquids. It's also a problem being address, making sure future liquids will not contain these chemicals. And even if they did, they would still be far far far far safer than smoking a traditional cigarette. It's scare tactics, it's taking something and completely distorting it to fit an agenda.

If you want to criticise ecigs because of a weakness that can be remedied, then you might as well criticise water because some people drown in it. In other words, you can change things to make them safer. In other words, it's not a legitimate argument against the inherent positives of ecigs.

Anyway, sorry about the waffle. But I look forward to your answers. Is stoicism really the answer? Is pleasure such a bad thing? Who gives anyone the right to pass judgement, just because they personally don't like it? You can drag up as many children as you want, but the fact remains; if you try to prevent people from using ecigs, then you would be condemning millions and millions of people to an early demise. This is fact.

You didn't answer my concerns and have conveniently glossed over the article I posted voicing said concerns... maybe you could dip your toe and give a response to that?

I don't feel questioning me on my habits would be of any benefit seeing as I'm not addicted to nicotine, nothing else would be comparable would it?
You can't compare one addictive substance to another like that.... nicotine suspended in an oil based solution is nothing like sugar, sugar is a substance in it's natural state, it is ingested and absorbed in a compleatly different way and it's effects are equally diverse.

Why you've aligned me with the daily mail and suggested I don't like people 'enjoying themselves' I don't know
If you vape and are not physically or mentally equipt to rid yourself of your addiction and choose to see what you do as enjoyment that's fine terry.

I never asked you to think of the children, I stated I was considering them due to the target market is all, don't misquote me please. I'm not judging you either, you can surround yourself in a custardy haze all day for all I care, my initial issue was with the aim of the marketing is all.

[TerryTagnut]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You didn't answer my concerns and have conveniently glossed over the article I posted voicing said concerns... maybe you could dip your toe and give a response to that?

I don't feel questioning me on my habits would be of any benefit seeing as I'm not addicted to nicotine, nothing else would be comparable would it?
You can't compare one addictive substance to another like that.... nicotine suspended in an oil based solution is nothing like sugar, sugar is a substance in it's natural state, it is ingested and absorbed in a compleatly different way and it's effects are equally diverse.

Why you've aligned me with the daily mail and suggested I don't like people 'enjoying themselves' I don't know
If you vape and are not physically or mentally equipt to rid yourself of your addiction and choose to see what you do as enjoyment that's fine terry.

I never asked you to think of the children, I stated I was considering them due to the target market is all, don't misquote me please. I'm not judging you either, you can surround yourself in a custardy haze all day for all I care, my initial issue was with the aim of the marketing is all.

From the International Journal of Environmental Research and
Public Health:

Propylene glycol and glycerol are the main ingredients of EC liquids. Both are classified by Food
and Drug Administration (FDA) and by the Flavor and Extracts Manufacturers Association (FEMA) as
additives that are “generally recognized as safe” for use in food (FEMA GRAS numbers 2,940 and
2,525 respectively). They are also used in tobacco cigarettes as humectants; however they may be
pyrolyzed to acrolein and formaldehyde [32,33]. Goniewicz et al. found acrolein and formaldehyde in
EC vapour [34]; however, the levels detected were lower compared to CS by orders of magnitude,
probably because the temperature of evaporation of EC liquid is lower compared to the temperature of
combustion in tobacco cigarettes. Similar observations were made by Lauterbach and Laugesen [35].
Even if such chemicals were released during vapour production in this study, the amount was probably
not enough to produce any significant cytotoxic effect on cultured cells. Nicotine, at levels commonly
found in cigarettes, does not induce cell death and may even have anti-apoptotic properties in
myocardial [36] and other cell lines [37,38].,

Damn, there's probably loads of studies which back up use of vegetable glycerine to be 'safe'. I don't pretend to be a medical expert (actually, medically ignorant would be a better description), but one thing I do know, there's a plethora of peer reviewed research that all come to the same conclusion - that ecigs are a far healthier alternative to smoking. As I've stated before, if cigarettes are deemed 100 (in terms of risk), then ecigs by comparison are somewhere between 1 and 5.

But, not even getting bogged down by the science, you speak to any user of ecigs and they'll all probably be saying the same thing: they can breathe better, they feel far healthier and it's been a life-changing decision for them.

I'm not sure why you're saying that it's unfair to compare one addiction to another. Let's take alcohol for a start. In 2012, about 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 % of all global deaths, were attributable to alcohol consumption. That's quite a number.

Remember, nicotine has the same risk profile as caffeine. So, I'm left unclear why someone would say it's unfair to make a comparison? People think nicotine is the killer, when in fact it's all the other crap in cigarettes. There's mountain evidence that far from being a killer, nicotine in fact might be a wonder drug!

http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

It would be a crying shame if the benefits of nicotine were swept under the carpet just because of some moral fanaticism.

Anyway, I apologise for aligning you with the Daily Mail. I think it was the "think of the children" thing that lead me to this misapprehension. Usually put forward by the zealots without any rational argument. Speaking of which:

http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10...vaping-zealots

I think people's main concern with ecigs is the fact that in some circumstances it can look like smoking. But it's just vapour. Do we ban kettles? Do we ban shaking coke cans in public because it might look like a gratuitous act of onanism? Where do we draw the line?

One thing I know though - the sooner the truth about ecigs becomes apparent, and can be discussed in a sensible and adult fashion, without emotive and nonsensical argument put forward such as "the think of the children" line (which doesn't have one shred of evidence to substantiate it being used), the better it will be. It will give millions of smokers a chance to make an informed decision to switch to a healthier alternative if they so desire.

That said, I have nothing against smokers - it's their choice, and they should have the right to carry on without the constant bullying and chastisement from a pernicious and judgemental society.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think they are a great idea and the sooner they take over from the cancer ridden tobacco cigs the better

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I think they are a great idea and the sooner they take over from the cancer ridden tobacco cigs the better

This!I use one as i used to be a smoker.Started on 2.4mg and cut down to 0.8mg now.My nicotene intake is at an all time low.Soon i'll be on 0 nicotene and then off the vape all together.They are brilliant.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i wonder where one can but that ravishing busty painted lady from the video?

I could do with 20 of her a day

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i wonder where one can but that ravishing busty painted lady from the video?

I could do with 20 of her a day

They'd eat you alive.