[the truth]

Originally Posted by Piipp

We run work schemes in my workplace all the time and the large majority of those who have taken them have ended up with a job at the end of it. They work very well, provided those on the placement actually want to work.

work placements are always the best step forward

[joeysteele]

To be fair to the govt; the original proposals of this was to have the age set at under 25s,it seems they have conceded a little that was perhaps too high and have made it under 21s

Any policy that helps, 'genuinely helps',rather than dictates, has to be welcomed so young people are never left to feel failures

I would like to see this work and am pleased to see it has been reduced to under 21s,rather than under 25s.
However, it would be even nicer if it took other circumstances into consideration too as on a personal level rather than a blanket policy overall.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

To be fair to the govt; the original proposals of this was to have the age set at under 25s,it seems they have conceded a little that was perhaps too high and have made it under 21s

Any policy that helps, 'genuinely helps',rather than dictates, has to be welcomed so young people are never left to feel failures

I would like to see this work and am pleased to see it has been reduced to under 21s,rather than under 25s.
However, it would be even nicer if it took other circumstances into consideration too as on a personal level rather than a blanket policy overall.

Agree with all your points Joey

[the truth]

this is awesome news, bravo cameron

[user104658]

I have no problem with this so long as these young people are paid for any hours they're doing. Having a slightly lower wage for under 21's is fine, so long as we're still talking at least £4.50 - £5 an hour and not something ridiculous like the situations where some people are doing voluntary work for the equivalent of less than £2 an hour. That's never acceptable and, of course, if it really is about teaching people about the real world of work... In the real world, people get paid for their work.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have no problem with this so long as these young people are paid for any hours they're doing. Having a slightly lower wage for under 21's is fine, so long as we're still talking at least £4.50 - £5 an hour and not something ridiculous like the situations where some people are doing voluntary work for the equivalent of less than £2 an hour. That's never acceptable and, of course, if it really is about teaching people about the real world of work... In the real world, people get paid for their work.

there is a minimum wage for 18 to 21 yr olds....at that age I did any and every job for peanuts often to get experience and find contacts make relationships and get my foot under the door....some of the best times of my life and a zillion light years better than queuing in the job centre for a giro cheque

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have no problem with this so long as these young people are paid for any hours they're doing. Having a slightly lower wage for under 21's is fine, so long as we're still talking at least £4.50 - £5 an hour and not something ridiculous like the situations where some people are doing voluntary work for the equivalent of less than £2 an hour. That's never acceptable and, of course, if it really is about teaching people about the real world of work... In the real world, people get paid for their work.

Yeah, I'd be all for this if it was paid work but you just know it's basically going to be community service and that **** is useless, you can't even put it on your CV since it makes you look bad.

[Samuel.]

What will the loss of housing benefit mean for the many 18 to 21 year olds relying on youth hostels?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

What will the loss of housing benefit mean for the many 18 to 21 year olds relying on youth hostels?

Orphans...who cares about them?
This is the beginning of some horrific proposals, hold on to your hat.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Orphans...who cares about them?
This is the beginning of some horrific proposals, hold on to your hat.

there are exceptions to the rule....but more will work , more will develop skills and develop discipline and work ethic...the sick and disabled will be protected rightly and the muppets who breed for benefits will be curtailed

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Orphans...who cares about them?
This is the beginning of some horrific proposals, hold on to your hat.

I was pleased to see that age down from under 25s to under 21s, although we are still talking about 'official' adults here, aged 18 to 21.

You are right however,this is going ahead,I dread what is coming for the sick and disabled,it was way too severe and unacceptable the last 5 years.
Never mind what is being planned now against them.

Had he shifted Ian Duncan Smith, I may have hoped for a bit better,with that creep still in place,I almost despair for the most vulnerable now.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I was pleased to see that age down from under 25s to under 21s, although we are still talking about 'official' adults here, aged 18 to 21.

You are right however,this is going ahead,I dread what is coming for the sick and disabled,it was way too severe and unacceptable the last 5 years.
Never mind what is being planned now against them.

Had he shifted Ian Duncan Smith, I may have hoped for a bit better,with that cretin still in place,I almost despair for the most vulnerable now.

there is more money with the tories due to enormous jos growth and rise in gdp...so theres more to spread around and the tories have drawn a line between who deserves and who doesn't....so theres more chance of the real deserving recipients getting money than ever before....nothing has been done against the disabled? the benefits have gone up with inflation, Cameron said he wouldn't touch them...although a lot of the cheats have been caught out..... in fact more money has been invested into the nhs under the tories than labour plus they've scaled back the enormous waste corruption and middle management. all of which means more money for the front end....Cameron is targeting the workless people , the people who breed for benefits. his policies already clearly are targeting those non disabled people who choose not to work

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

there is more money with the tories due to enormous jos growth and rise in gdp...so theres more to spread around and the tories have drawn a line between who deserves and who doesn't....so theres more chance of the real deserving recipients getting money than ever before....nothing has been done against the disabled? the benefits have gone up with inflation, Cameron said he wouldn't touch them...although a lot of the cheats have been caught out..... in fact more money has been invested into the nhs under the tories than labour plus they've scaled back the enormous waste corruption and middle management. all of which means more money for the front end....Cameron is targeting the workless people , the people who breed for benefits. his policies already clearly are targeting those non disabled people who choose not to work

Sorry that is nonsense, and 10 billion pounds of cuts are now having to be found by this govt; that they would not say what they would be cutting.
Only what they wouldn't
Pensioner entitlements,child benefit.the only things left are jobseekers, they cannot save much from that it is only a palty weekly figure anyway.
They can hit carers allowance,which will hit the disabled.

Also if you think they did nothing against the sick and disabled, then get along to some of these re-assessments the sick and disabled have to attend and see how rotten they are treated there too.

PIP replacing DLA,is a nightmare to get, people have avoided claiming it unless they are pushed by some authority to do so.

People really ill with cancer, dementia and incurable conditions, worse still those with mental health problems, taken off what was incapacity, told they can do some work ad to claim jobseekers,or put in the wrag as to ESA, rather than the support group of ESA, where they should be.
having to endure endless months and up to a year or moreof fighting to get their rightful benefits restored to them.

People having to go to court who are sick and disabled,just to get their rightful entitlements, needing social workers and Doctors to provide endless evidence to support their claims.

That is what has happened to the sick, disabled and most vulnerable during this rotten heartless govt's; last 5 years in power.
maybe not where you are as you seem to live in a state of Utopia, in the rest of the real world however that is what is happening.
Try to get yourself along to the ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled,you may just get an eye opener.

[jennyjuniper]

To make this possible, first you have to be able to stop thousands of migrant workers from coming to Britain. That's not possible thanks to the bloody EU. Because as long as migrant workers are willing to work for less than the minimum wage, then bosses will continue to employ them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

To make this possible, first you have to be able to stop thousands of migrant workers from coming to Britain. That's not possible thanks to the bloody EU. Because as long as migrant workers are willing to work for less than the minimum wage, then bosses will continue to employ them.

How can they be employed legally on less than minimum wage, how is it the fault of the employees that employers are exploiting them?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How can they be employed legally on less than minimum wage, how is it the fault of the employees that employers are exploiting them?

Realism is needed here dear. Jenny DID NOT specify 'legally employed', she said; " Because as long as migrant workers are willing to work for less than the minimum wage, then bosses will continue to employ them" which covers the very real FACT that thousands of immigrants are employed in this country by unscrupulous employers for far LESS than the minimum wage because:

A) The employment is illegal and not 'on the books'.
B) The immigrants - unlike our home grown 'unemployed' - willingly undertake such 'employment.

This REALITY is existent in diverse industries, from Construction to 'Winkle Picking' and CANNOT be DENIED - even by extreme Left Wingers.

This being so, then the fact remains, that because our 'Home Grown' UNEMPLOYED are NOT WILLING to SUPPLY this DEMAND for workers on an 'OFF THE BOOKS' paltry wage basis, but immigrants ARE WILLING, then the employers are NOT BEING FORCED to employ genuine workers ON THE BOOKS for at least the MINIMUM WAGE - something which they would be forced to do otherwise.

Therefore, Jenny is CORRECT.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Realism is needed here dear. Jenny DID NOT specify 'legally employed', she said; " Because as long as migrant workers are willing to work for less than the minimum wage, then bosses will continue to employ them" which covers the very real FACT that thousands of immigrants are employed in this country by unscrupulous employers for far LESS than the minimum wage because:

A) The employment is illegal and not 'on the books'.
B) The immigrants - unlike our home grown 'unemployed' - willingly undertake such 'employment.

This REALITY is existent in diverse industries, from Construction to 'Winkle Picking' and CANNOT be DENIED - even by extreme Left Wingers.

This being so, then the fact remains, that because our 'Home Grown' UNEMPLOYED are NOT WILLING to SUPPLY this DEMAND for workers on an 'OFF THE BOOKS' paltry wage basis, but immigrants ARE WILLING, then the employers are NOT BEING FORCED to employ genuine workers ON THE BOOKS for at least the MINIMUM WAGE - something which they would be forced to do otherwise.

Therefore, Jenny is CORRECT.

Don't patronise me please. If they are employed legally or illegally it is still not the fault of the employee, if Jenny wishes to clarify I'm sure she will.

Here is a government compiled list of those failing to pay their employees the national minimum wage, they cross many sectors.

'A further 70 employers who failed to pay their workers the National Minimum Wage (NMW) have been named today (24 February 2015) by Business Minister Jo Swinson, bringing the overall total named and shamed to 162.

Between them, these 70 employers owed workers a total of over £157,000 in arrears and have been charged financial penalties totalling over £70,000.

The government has already named 92 employers since the new naming regime came into force in October 2013. They had total arrears of over £316,000 and total penalties of over £111,000.

To support the minimum wage crackdown, the government will also be increasing HMRC’s £9.2 million enforcement budget by a further £3 million, helping to fund more than 70 extra compliance officers.'

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...wage-offenders

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Don't patronise me please. If they are employed legally or illegally it is still not the fault of the employee, if Jenny wishes to clarify I'm sure she will.

Here is a government compiled list of those failing to pay their employees the national minimum wage, they cross many sectors.

'A further 70 employers who failed to pay their workers the National Minimum Wage (NMW) have been named today (24 February 2015) by Business Minister Jo Swinson, bringing the overall total named and shamed to 162.

Between them, these 70 employers owed workers a total of over £157,000 in arrears and have been charged financial penalties totalling over £70,000.

The government has already named 92 employers since the new naming regime came into force in October 2013. They had total arrears of over £316,000 and total penalties of over £111,000.

To support the minimum wage crackdown, the government will also be increasing HMRC’s £9.2 million enforcement budget by a further £3 million, helping to fund more than 70 extra compliance officers.'

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...wage-offenders

I am no more patronising you Kiz than you do me when you tell me to get 'perspective' (well, perhaps just a smudging so - but teasingly so)

The point is our different perspectives;

to you - it is ALL the fault of the unscrupulous employers.

To me the immigrants ACCEPTING the illegal jobs-On-The-Side are just as culpable - more so, because they have come to a country which has welcomed them in but then blatantly break laws which they know to be wrong in any language.

The end result is that - as Jenny stated - it is damaging to our economy.

[MTVN]

^ Agree, that's a problem of law enforcement not immigration

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How can they be employed legally on less than minimum wage, how is it the fault of the employees that employers are exploiting them?

Originally Posted by MTVN

^ Agree, that's a problem of law enforcement not immigration

[JoshBB]

For gods sake. Cutting jobseekers allowance is ridiculous, how the hell are people supposed to get by without a job now? :/

edit: I hope they're serious about cracking down on tax avoidance by big companies too. Would save a lot of cuts from having to go ahead.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

For gods sake. Cutting jobseekers allowance is ridiculous, how the hell are people supposed to get by without a job now? :/

There are jobs Josh,people cant expect something for nothing all the time,there are agencies that will find you a job.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

There are jobs Josh,people cant expect something for nothing all the time,there are agencies that will find you a job.

Yes but there is not a wide range of non-zero hours jobs available for people to just go and do. If there was, the move would be a little more understandable.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yes but there is not a wide range of non-zero hours jobs available for people to just go and do. If there was, the move would be a little more understandable.

I think what is being proposed will help young people to develop a work ethic, everyone has to start somewhere, we can't all expect to walk into full time employment with no skills and no experience, if the government back up this initiative by increasing the number of apprenticeships, and work opportunities to develop skills, then it is all good in my eyes, no able bodied 18 year old should be sat on their arse at home getting benefits.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think what is being proposed will help young people to develop a work ethic, everyone has to start somewhere, we can't all expect to walk into full time employment with no skills and no experience, if the government back up this initiative by increasing the number of apprenticeships, and work opportunities to develop skills, then it is all good in my eyes, no able bodied 18 year old should be sat on their arse at home getting benefits.

How is a zero hr contract going to instill a work ethic if the work is part time and or sporadic?
It instills the worst message for me that you are not a valued member of an organisation, you are temporary and dispensable and that you have no pride or loyalty for or to the company.
Apprenticeships in many areas are a joke and used as cheap disposable labour in many areas, young people are undervalued and exploited by these practices.
If there's a full time position in a sandwich shop give them a job, don't call it apprentice sandwich technician to get away with paying £2 a hour :/

I agree that any job is better than benefits but as the cost of living is so high a fair days work deserves a fair days pay.