[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes, a friend of mine..her kid ended up with brain damage because of a jab. The autism thing is clearly ridiculous and Wakefield should probably be locked up for spreading mass panic, but there ARE side effects, sometimes serious ones so not sure I would be comfortable with forcing people to go through with it. Now, what happened was a huge allergic reaction, which wasn't dealt with that well by the nurse who fannied about so he ended up going a while without oxygen to his brain...so it was a few failures at once, but it did make me quite..releuctant. I knew it had to be done mind and that it would help them (and other kids) in the long run but when I got Skyes I was ****ing terrified. I also think that they should spread them out a bit more than they do, from memory there were many many different illnesses all going into her tiny body over the space of like 3 months, and she was only a few weeks old when she got the first one too! I was a bit more chilled at James', but still quite scared tbh. Also with James I was told the truth, and told there was very small (but existant) a chance of very serious consequences and that, wih Skye...I wasn't and was basically given the whole 'some people are scared of vaccinations for their kids, and theres absolutely no reason for that!' stuff which made me rage quite a lot and I ended up arguing with the nurse and they threatened to remove me from the doctors list for not being compliant enough and agreeing weith what I knew was bull****. So..not telling parents the truth doesn't help matters really, and does leave the door wide open for people to 'research' theirself..which tends to mean a 5 min google followed by lots of 'omg autism!' horror.

I tend to stay out of these conversations as I know that even bringing this up will get me labelled an 'anti-vaxxer' as say anything at all against them and..you are as bad as a flat earther. So yeah, the autism link is nonsense, and can be proven to be nonsense, but some go on as if injections are totally harmless, which is (as with near everything in life really) not the case at all. And having someone I know who had horrendous side effects from them..it makes me rage a little bit when reading all the 'people who don't vax should have their kids taken' stuff tbh.

Brain Damage
can just happen at the same time, though
I would think.
"Coincidence"

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Brain Damage
can just happen at the same time, though
I would think.
"Coincidence"

Erm, well no it was not coincidence as the allergic reaction was directly caused by the injection..the brain damage did not 'just happen', it was caused by the reaction to the jab given to the kid.

Of course its true that near anything can cause such a reaction though. If that was a bit of a hamfisted way of saying that.

[Candy Annie Cane]

What I don't like to see is people dictating to others. People become horrified that states are outlawing abortion as it is the woman's body and rightly should be her decision but when they are making their decisions about their children they shouldn't have that right or face losing their children?? Should we wait till kids can make their own informed choices whether to vaccinate themselves? Or should we allow the parents to choose?

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

What I don't like to see is people dictating to others. People become horrified that states are outlawing abortion as it is the woman's body and rightly should be her decision but when they are making their decisions about their children they shouldn't have that right or face losing their children?? Should we wait till kids can make their own informed choices whether to vaccinate themselves? Or should we allow the parents to choose?

Exactly Annie, I see it as the same thing, my body, my choice, kids bodies parents choice, that said my are vaccinated for everything they can be vaccinated for, I had measles as a kid and its not pleasant

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

What I don't like to see is people dictating to others. People become horrified that states are outlawing abortion as it is the woman's body and rightly should be her decision but when they are making their decisions about their children they shouldn't have that right or face losing their children?? Should we wait till kids can make their own informed choices whether to vaccinate themselves? Or should we allow the parents to choose?

Completely different things.

Banning abortions is basically restricting a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, an abortion isn't a health risk to anyone other than the woman in question. By not vaccinating a child, the parent is making a choice that can harm that child as well as younger children around them who are too young to be vaccinated. Why should someone else's child who is too young to be vaccinated get sick because of another parent's ignorance?

Anti-Vaxxer beliefs are unfounded, it was all based on the lies of a doctor who has since been struck off the register. Are vaccinations completely risk free? Nope, but are they typically more dangerous to children than the illnesses they vaccinate against? Certainly not.

Anti-vaxxers are dumb ***** that don't deserve to be parents.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Anti-Vaxxer beliefs are unfounded, it was all based on the lies of a doctor who has since been struck off the register. Are vaccinations completely risk free? Nope, but are they typically more dangerous to children than the illnesses they vaccinate against? Certainly not.

Not enough IMO. His lies will affect people for many years to come.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Completely different things.

Banning abortions is basically restricting a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, an abortion isn't a health risk to anyone other than the woman in question. By not vaccinating a child, the parent is making a choice that can harm that child as well as younger children around them who are too young to be vaccinated. Why should someone else's child who is too young to be vaccinated get sick because of another parent's ignorance?

Anti-Vaxxer beliefs are unfounded, it was all based on the lies of a doctor who has since been struck off the register. Are vaccinations completely risk free? Nope, but are they typically more dangerous to children than the illnesses they vaccinate against? Certainly not.

Anti-vaxxers are dumb ***** that don't deserve to be parents.

and people who get the flu can potentially infect and kill other people with underlying conditions or elderly people etc but we don't all rush out and get the flu jab now do we?

[bots]

You play the %'s game with vaccines. You have to weigh up the chances of an issue with taking a vaccine versus chances of infection if you don't get it. In all cases that I am aware, a vaccine is far preferable to the consequences of infection. **** happens for sure, and some are badly affected by vaccines, but if i'm playing the numbers game, i prefer to go for the best odds

[Ammi]

....with measles in young children there is a high risk of complications I believe and some of those complications are life threatening...it’s not the same high risk of any complications when contracting influenza though...which is why they’re not really compatible imo and also a flu vaccination doesn’t prevent a disease, its just some protection for the more vulnerable in some cases...

.....hmmm I also agree with Dezzy that this ‘choice’ doesn’t really compare to a pregnancy either because surely pro choice in pregnancy applies to before a birth becomes viable...in many things, parents sadly do not always make choices which are best for a child...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

and people who get the flu can potentially infect and kill other people with underlying conditions or elderly people etc but we don't all rush out and get the flu jab now do we?

That's a really silly comparison tbh mainly because the people at risk from the flu are usually the first to be offered the flu jab.

It also doesn't really contradict what I'm saying at all. People don't get the flu jab so it's okay for illnesses that can be vaccinated againt to spread among children? Weird argument but k.

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

That's a really silly comparison tbh mainly because the people at risk from the flu are usually the first to be offered the flu jab.

It also doesn't really contradict what I'm saying at all. People don't get the flu jab so it's okay for illnesses that can be vaccinated againt to spread among children? Weird argument but k.

Many people can be unaware that they have an underlying condition? My point is many healthcare workers in hospitals and clinics have the flu jab routinely offered but they don't have to take it up and no one is accusing them of being negligent by not doing so

[RileyH]

[Twosugars]

Parents are usually not medically qualified to make such decisions. My default position would be to listen to medical professionals

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Parents are usually not medically qualified to make such decisions. My default position would be to listen to medical professionals

There's a difference between highly encouraging people to take medical advice, and legally mandating them to undergo medical procedures. The latter is a very, very slippery slope in my opinion. Personal bodily autonomy is a cornerstone of a free society and taking that right away will never be the right path.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's a difference between highly encouraging people to take medical advice, and legally mandating them to undergo medical procedures. The latter is a very, very slippery slope in my opinion. Personal bodily autonomy is a cornerstone of a free society and taking that right away will never be the right path.

Yeah but its not personal bodily autonomy though, it's either parents deciding for their kids or medical professionals

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah but its not personal bodily autonomy though, it's either parents deciding for their kids or medical professionals

That's the thing

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah but its not personal bodily autonomy though, it's either parents deciding for their kids or medical professionals

Parental consent should always come before intervention by the authorities other than in really extreme circumstances, surely?

[user104658]

Speaking of ignorance and something that the general public is mostly ignorant to:

Influenza is SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous than measles. Yet people react to news of someone having the flu like its the common cold, and react to an outbreak of measles like ebola or the plague. The general level of knowledge around basic health is abysmal.

[user104658]

So we're now advocating for medical professionals and the government having the final say over parents wishes?

Well. **** do I even have to respond to that?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So we're now advocating for medical professionals and the government having the final say over parents wishes?

Well. **** do I even have to respond to that?

It'd stop genital mutilation

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It'd stop genital mutilation

Genital mutilation should be illegal anyway, and legally blocking a medical procedure is entirely different to legally obligating one.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So we're now advocating for medical professionals and the government having the final say over parents wishes?

Well. **** do I even have to respond to that?

What about adding fluorine to water? Or any form of sanitary intervention?
Do you want an opt out from that too?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

What about adding fluorine to water? Or any form of sanitary intervention?

Do you want an opt out from that too?

You can opt out of that quite easily by not using tap water as drinking water. What other bodily intervention is legally mandated? Also why would you put vaccination under the heading of sanitation?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You can opt out of that quite easily by not using tap water as drinking water. What other bodily intervention is legally mandated? Also why would you put vaccination under the heading of sanitation?

As it's designed to stop spreading diseases then yes
Not that different from sanitation designed to stop spreading diseases

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

As it's designed to stop spreading diseases then yes

Not that different from sanitation designed to stop spreading diseases

It is entirely different but I don't even know where to start in stating why, if it's not just plain obvious. Nanny state gone wild here. I find this genuinely scary . Not sure if people realise that they are effectively advocating for universal state guardianship? It's actually BEYOND Orwell at this point.