[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Sadly, I think you're right. Shame. I must ask joeysteele his thoughts on this.

Hello Livia.

Just seen this so am happy to say how I see things.

The Labour Party membership has now twice, along with the MPs and Unions at Labour conferences voted to adopt PR .
The last time overwhelmingly so.

It's estimated 80+% of members support PR.
The Unions overwhelmingly do.
Plus more than half the last number of MPs too.

Infuriatingly Starmer stated, PR was not a policy for the manifesto in this election just passed.
However the Labour movement wants it so will still keep on for it.
I will and despite this election win I've seen no change from the membership as to still wanting it.

In 1997 Labour won big then it was gone after 2 more elections.
That will definitely happen again after the next election or one after that.
I think Starmer knows that too.

The votes were poor in this election.
Only 34% to Labour.
A Conservative revival would soon get their votes rising.
So while powerful this government can be, it hasn't had a massive vote endorsement.

Now, I'll never vote Reform or want Reform to do well.
However I believe in fairness and justice.
No electoral system that sees the Parties winning power on a paltry number of votes is right in my view.

Reform got 14% and 5 seats.
LibDems got 12% and 72 seats.
The Greens, they got less than 7% but only one seat less than Reform on 4.

No wonder over a third of voters don't even vote.

I would hope and would fight for PR, it has to come from in the present, Conservative or Labour Parties.
Because if one of them is weak the other is likely to be strong and this ridiculous electoral system will go on.

If Labour are doing okay but not moving much forward in 3 to 4 years
I can see PR being in the next manifesto.
Because that would I believe, ensure Labour wins easily again.
Since even Reform would be supporting that.
Along with every other Party and Independents elected to this parliament.
Plus it's already been passed and called for at 2 Labour conferences.

PR in my view would be fairer.
Seats for votes, not seats as gifts.
Real change to votes being made to really count and decide more representative government..

If that meant Reform broke through then so be it.
That's what's called democracy.
PR would ensure that no single Party could likely win a big majority for a minority of votes
So the government would be of at least 2 Parties to govern with real authority.

If too, however, Starmer and Labour were successful this time in government.
Then the way they could likely best protect their successes would be to have PR in place.
So no way could the Conservatives with a majority alone tear up any successes.

The argument for me however is one of fairness and justice.
I came to this view in 2005 aged 13.
When I saw Labour get 35.2% of the votes, the Conservatives getting 32.3%, yet Labour in with a 68 overall majority.
No way right.
A voting system that can create that outcome has to be unfair.

I rarely agree with Nigel Farage however he calls this fair votes when he talks of PR.
He's right on that.

Starmer can ride high now, as Blair did and even Thatcher did.
However it will crash again because of this electoral system which may well give strong government but not the right and fair government.

That's why I support PR.
I also believe it's closer than ever before now.
Since it has been passed at 2 Labour conferences.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Hello Livia.

Just seen this so am happy to say how I see things.

The Labour Party membership has now twice, along with the MPs and Unions at Labour conferences voted to adopt PR .
The last time overwhelmingly so.

It's estimated 80+% of members support PR.
The Unions overwhelmingly do.
Plus more than half the last number of MPs too.

Infuriatingly Starmer stated, PR was not a policy for the manifesto in this election just passed.
However the Labour movement wants it so will still keep on for it.
I will and despite this election win I've seen no change from the membership as to still wanting it.

In 1997 Labour won big then it was gone after 2 more elections.
That will definitely happen again after the next election or one after that.
I think Starmer knows that too.

The votes were poor in this election.
Only 34% to Labour.
A Conservative revival would soon get their votes rising.
So while powerful this government can be, it hasn't had a massive vote endorsement.

Now, I'll never vote Reform or want Reform to do well.
However I believe in fairness and justice.
No electoral system that sees the Parties winning power on a paltry number of votes is right in my view.

Reform got 14% and 5 seats.
LibDems got 12% and 72 seats.
The Greens, they got less than 7% but only one seat less than Reform on 4.

No wonder over a third of voters don't even vote.

I would hope and would fight for PR, it has to come from in the present, Conservative or Labour Parties.
Because if one of them is weak the other is likely to be strong and this ridiculous electoral system will go on.

If Labour are doing okay but not moving much forward in 3 to 4 years
I can see PR being in the next manifesto.
Because that would I believe, ensure Labour wins easily again.
Since even Reform would be supporting that.
Along with every other Party and Independents elected to this parliament.
Plus it's already been passed and called for at 2 Labour conferences.

PR in my view would be fairer.
Seats for votes, not seats as gifts.
Real change to votes being made to really count and decide more representative government..

If that meant Reform broke through then so be it.
That's what's called democracy.
PR would ensure that no single Party could likely win a big majority for a minority of votes
So the government would be of at least 2 Parties to govern with real authority.

If too, however, Starmer and Labour were successful this time in government.
Then the way they could likely best protect their successes would be to have PR in place.
So no way could the Conservatives with a majority alone tear up any successes.

The argument for me however is one of fairness and justice.
I came to this view in 2005 aged 13.
When I saw Labour get 35.2% of the votes, the Conservatives getting 32.3%, yet Labour in with a 68 overall majority.
No way right.
A voting system that can create that outcome has to be unfair.

I rarely agree with Nigel Farage however he calls this fair votes when he talks of PR.
He's right on that.

Starmer can ride high now, as Blair did and even Thatcher did.
However it will crash again because of this electoral system which may well give strong government but not the right and fair government.

That's why I support PR.
I also believe it's closer than ever before now.
Since it has been passed at 2 Labour conferences.

Thank you joey, a very interesting read.

[smudgie]

Out of that lot putting their names in the hat, I don’t think I could vote for any of them.
Time to find someone new altogether with a better out look to boot.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Out of that lot putting their names in the hat, I don’t think I could vote for any of them.
.

You could say exactly the same about Labour


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Out of that lot putting their names in the hat, I don’t think I could vote for any of them.
Time to find someone new altogether with a better out look to boot.

What about Tom Tugendhat MP?

[bots]

Originally Posted by arista

What about Tom Tugendhat MP?

he is a knob

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

he is a knob

OK


Tom or Suella?

[bots]

none of the names suggested, they have all proven themselves to be crap

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

none of the names suggested, they have all proven themselves to be crap

They need New Names in this mix
which may start next week.........

[Crimson Dynamo]

The party is finished in its current guise

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The party is finished in its current guise

Depends what a New Leader does

[bots]

the party isn't finished, they are the official opposition for the next 5 years. It's up to them to understand where they went wrong

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the party isn't finished, they are the official opposition for the next 5 years. It's up to them to understand where they went wrong

People have been telling them for the last year exactly what they did wrong -if any of them don't know by now they should f off and go work in KFC

absolute shower of twats

[bots]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

People have been telling them for the last year exactly what they did wrong -if any of them don't know by now they should f off and go work in KFC

absolute shower of twats

they don't yet seem to understand that it was their own behaviour that caused their downfall. They didn't give a crap about voters until Rishi called the election, and then they went holy ****

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

they don't yet seem to understand that it was their own behaviour that caused their downfall. They didn't give a crap about voters until Rishi called the election, and then they went holy ****

I bet people like Mordant was shocked when she lost her seat

[bots]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I bet people like Mordant was shocked when she lost her seat

you can almost say with certainty given that plymouth is a naval base, that she lost her seat the moment Rishi knocked off early from the d day event

[Livia]

Penny Mordaunt was an officer in the Royal Naval Reserve and is how an honorary commander.

[joeysteele]

Penny Mordaunt was also shaping up to be a good Defence secretary.
Then Boris Johnson sacked her when he became leader.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This chap may emerge over the coming weeks

[bots]

James Cleverly has thrown his hat in the ring

[GiRTh]

Has Suella Braverman joined reform yet?

[bots]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Has Suella Braverman joined reform yet?

not yet, she wants to make it at a point of maximum impact, so it could be a few years

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

not yet, she wants to make it at a point of maximum impact, so it could be a few years

[arista]

Sky News Text:
[After announcing he will run to be leader
of the Conservative Party,
Tom Tugendhat MP has written in The Telegraph
that he is willing to leave the
European Convention on Human Rights.]

[arista]

Was debated on Newsnight
last night.


They showed clips of the last debate
which had Liz Truss in it.