[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zee

How condescending. Firstly, the protests are in part an angry reaction be being deceived by the Liberal Democrats who did a complete U-Turn on one of their manifesto promises; and considering that many students voted for the Lib Dems based on that promise, they've alienated their student support. Nobody is claiming that students are the only demographic of this country that are suffering; on the contrary the issue at hand is that these proposed changes are going to cause students to suffer more than they currently do - hence the riots. Your attitude towards students comes across as completely stereotypical and filled with hatred; so I'd like to explain my own situation in the hope that you'll stop and think for a minute that we're not all scrounging off the government and deserve to be penalised heavily for wanting to pursue academia.

I do not have a student loan and I have a part time job. I am a Scottish student, so my tuition fees are paid for by the government so long as I apply for them to be paid for before the academic year begins. That is the only aspect of my education that is paid for by somebody other than myself/my family; as a knock on effect of English universities raising their fees, many English school leavers hoping to go on to university will look to going places further afield: Scotland's significantly cheaper fees will attract lots more English students; making competition for places more difficult and disappointing students whose grades aren't good enough. What comes across in your post to me is that you're rolling your eyes at the idea of further education and think it's a waste of time - that's your opinion, but the fact remains that thousands of people of all different ages and backgrounds go to university to study each year and need some kind of financial support. Do your views apply to a single mother who is struggling to find employment so has gone to university as a mature student to get a good degree to aid her attempts to find a job? That's just an example of one type of person who isn't the 'typical student' that you seem to loathe.

There is no guarantee that someone who studies for a degree will get a well paid job - the job market is extremely competitive, a degree is no guarantee of employment. Being massively in debt (due to these proposed increases) and being unable to get a job because your CV still doesn't stand out from the crowd despite earning a degree, does that sound like an attractive prospect to you? In fact, it's a similar position to "the rest of us" who "have to struggle to survive in the real world" that you talked about in your post. We're all financially setback; if anything you're being prejudiced against students because of some preconceived stereotype that all students are lazy and just sit around getting drunk and doing nothing with their lives and then being handed a fantastic job - that's not the real world and I would have thought you of all people would know that, you're an intelligent poster!

I do agree with you about the rioting though - I firmly believe that the people causing trouble were, for the most part, hooligans who were there to cause trouble, and not students who were there to support the protest. Scenes like those captured in the media are just ridiculous displays of anti social behaviour and, you're spot on, do absolutely nothing to change anyone's mind about anything; instead it will only set people firmly against students. I really hope you read my post and at least concede that we're not all scroungers and wasters, some of us are here to learn and achieve something without being a burden on others.

I do not see how I have been at all condescending I have expressed a legitimate opinion about the standard of students who go to Uni these days, only a minority of whom actually achieve a worthwhile degree that is going to supposedly enrich our society in the future.

I would point out that it was the CONSERVATIVES won the last election NOT the LIB-DEMS, and the coalition is merely a marriage of convenience. Personally, I would have preferred the Conservatives to form a government without hindrance from a wishy washy party like the Lib-Dems (just Labour in a different form). It was the hypocritical LABOUR party that introduced fees in the first place, and used their 13 years in power to mortgage this country for the next couple of generations at least, so put the blame where it deserves to be.

Students are like a bunch of spoilt brats throwing their toys out of the pram because they can't get what they want. How about all the poor sods who have been made redundant or are subjected to wage freezes and are struggling to bring up families in this recession? What would happen if we all went on the rampage? What exactly would it achieve?

Going to University is a lifestyle choice and students should not expect others to fund it. They have already had free education up to the age of 19 which, sad to say, evidenced by some of the posts on this forum, has had little impact on some members' grammatical, spelling,mathematical and logic skills. As to stereotyping students, I haven't done that, they've managed it all by themselves by their appalling and unreasonable behaviour. There is also a degree of arrogance on their part since they believe themselves to be more deserving of funding than other members of society who are struggling to cope in this recession. Well they are not.

I had to leave school at 16 because I had to help to contribute to my family's finances, but I joined the Open University later on in life and achieved two degrees, a BA(Hons) and a BSc(Hons) as well as several diplomas, whilst being a single parent, bringing up two children and WORKING FULL TIME. I did NOT expect anyone else to pick up the tab because I had CHOSEN further study. I have no problem with further education, but why expect someone else to pay for it?

I note that a lot of your concern is about the fact that English students might start looking to go to Scottish universities, thereby reducing the number of places available to Scottish students! Welcome to our world here south of the border where the world and his wife clamour for scarce resources on every front: housing, schools, doctors, dentists, jobs etc etc. That's life, and students would do well to keep in mind what they are supposed to be preparing themselves for.

[Legend killer]

I have to say some of the banners i saw where hilarious

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...01011415826275

For ZEE

3mins Video of Zoe Williams
the one Girl Student who wanted the Thug Students to stop
talking after the fight.


Well Done SkyNews

[Judas]

Bloody hell Arista, you love your sky news! Are you on commision for every click they get?!

[arista]

Originally Posted by Judas

Bloody hell Arista, you love your sky news! Are you on commision for every click they get?!

No I am not
I have 4 TV's on
SkyNewsHD (On my Sony 32" HD LCD) is the better one,
as unlike the BBC news (on my flat screen Samsung CRT 14") they do not block fights.


I was also on the IranianTV PressTV
as they also took the SkyCopter feed and put it full screen.


CNN covered it with there own reporters
France24News covered it well.

FoxNews USA used the SkyNews Footage , of course.


I use 2 SkyHD feeds
1 VirginHD
1 FreesatHD

[Judas]

Originally Posted by Shaun

So many of these protestors seem to be arguing against other cuts - I can see a few EMA signs in there. What the Hell has that got to do with the tuition fee cuts?

I think today has been organised by 'The National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts' - and they include cuts to EMA to. (Which I don't really agree with)

Originally Posted by arista

No I am not
I have 4 TV's on
SkyNewsHD (On my Sony 32" HD LCD) is the better one,
as unlike the BBC news (on my flat screen Samsung CRT 14") they do not block fights.


I was also on the IranianTV PressTV
as they also took the SkyCopter feed and put it full screen.


CNN covered it with there own reporters

FoxNews USA used the SkyNews Footage , of course.


I use 2 SkyHD feeds
1 VirginHD
1 FreesatHD

WOW, why do you have so many TVs? Do you work for some kind of media organisation or are you just rich and engaged in the TV?

[Shaun]

So many of these protestors seem to be arguing against other cuts - I can see a few EMA signs in there. What the Hell has that got to do with the tuition fee cuts?

And ugh, I cringe every time I see a photo of some wannabe stood on a platform with some "OMG I'M CHE GUEVARA" pose.

[arista]

[arista]

This Wrecked Police Van
has now been removed.
The Police Lady in Charge said it was not safe to go in and arrest them,
of course due to the Massive Daily Mail Photos
some of those thug students will be caught soon.

[arista]

Sure Zee
But you must understand the Roots of these Charges - New Labour brought them in
then spent every penny.
Nick Clegg changed his view after viewing the mess New Labour left for the Conservative-LibDem power.

Everything changes
it has Worldwide , so it can not be stopped by attacking a empty Police Van.

As for your 'Future Divide' Vision
that is wrong as many poor students will get funding help.


And you bring up Class
Labour right now has a Oxford Toff Boy in charge


Life is not going the way
you have been banged on the Head With
whoever is behind you , that is.

[Z]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure Zee
But you must understand the Roots of these Charges - New Labour brought them in
then spent every penny.
Nick Clegg changed his view after viewing the mess New Labour left for the Conservative-LibDem power.

Everything changes
it has Worldwide , so it can not be stopped by attacking a empty Police Van.

As for your 'Future Divide' Vision
that is wrong as many poor students will get funding help.


And you bring up Class
Labour right now has a Oxford Toff Boy in charge


Life is not going the way
you have been banged on the Head With
whoever is behind you , that is.

Then why up the fees if "poor students will get funding help"? Those students will number few and far between. I'm not even going to be a student that's directly affected by these increases and I can see it's an unfair proposal.

As for the police van, I would bet money that the people attacking it weren't students, just vandals who saw an opportunity to cause chaos without facing consequences.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Zee

Then why up the fees if "poor students will get funding help"? Those students will number few and far between. I'm not even going to be a student that's directly affected by these increases and I can see it's an unfair proposal.

As for the police van, I would bet money that the people attacking it weren't students, just vandals who saw an opportunity to cause chaos without facing consequences.

They are Students
There names are in some Newspapers tomorrow


This one wants to be a SuperStar

[Z]

Originally Posted by arista

They are Students
There names are in some Newspapers tomorrow


This one wants to be a SuperStar

Really? Because to me, it looks like some people are covering up their distinguishable features so they could turn up to a protest and turn it into a violent affair. Maybe they are students, but they're not students who are there to protest peacefully or achieve anything constructive, that's for sure.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Zee

Then why up the fees if "poor students will get funding help"? Those students will number few and far between. I'm not even going to be a student that's directly affected by these increases and I can see it's an unfair proposal.

As for the police van, I would bet money that the people attacking it weren't students, just vandals who saw an opportunity to cause chaos without facing consequences.

Because it will give the universities greater financial freedom and so that the UK's leading institutions can continue to provide the best service possible and compete with the best Unis worldwide.

As Arista has said poorer students will get financial support, and they wont have to start repaying the money until they're earning over £21,000 and it will be written off if it cannot be repayed after 30 years.

Hopefully, this wont be too much of a deterrent to those who do want to go to University. The average return on a degree is apparently £160,000 so the benefits will still far outweigh the cost for most people. I'm incredibly fortunate really, I'll be the last year who only has to pay £3,000 a year, although I dont think I'd be put off if I wasnt. Dont get me wrong, I do feel for the students who will be hit by this increase, but I dont think it is as unreasonable as it is being made out to be

[M X]

Me and my friends went down in Newcastle, but after a while just ended up walking around and went to Basement.

[arista]

Zee that Evil Attack from a Roof on the Last Time Protest
was tracked as a Full Time Student
Fact.



Edward Woollard leaving Westminster Magistrates' Court today. He has admitted a charge of violent disorder after throwing a fire extinguisher from the roof of Millbank tower during the student protest

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz16E9ozWps

[Angus]

Originally Posted by arista

Zee that Evil Attack from a Roof on the Last Time Protest
was tracked as a Full Time Student
Fact.



Edward Woollard leaving Westminster Magistrates' Court today. He has admitted a charge of violent disorder after throwing a fire extinguisher from the roof of Millbank tower during the student protest

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz16E9ozWps

Some of the worst offenders are from affluent homes. Now this stupid idiot has a criminal record, that's really going to help him in the job market!

[Ammi]

I havn't posted on this topic before because I really don't know what to say tbh, I find it so upsetting to see this violence, destruction and hatred from the students. How is this helping? this is a situation we are all in and the future is bleak enough without having this. What must the rest of the world think of us. There is not one person in this country that is not going to suffer in the coming years and some will worry about even putting food on their table. There was a student on Daybreak today and he used the expression 'an injury to one is an injury to all' in that he was speaking for the general public and he said he allied himself to the pensioners and their lack of funding. I didn't see any students protest for pensioners or child benefit cuts or anything for that matter that effects the taxpayers or any citizens in this country. And yet when it effects them, even though they are not tax payers they're rioting in the streets. Costing us even more money for extra policing and to repair damage done. They are not helping they are just costing us more. These are people we assume use 'brain' over 'brawn' - and yet they cannot find another way, a non violent way - a civilised way. Is this the way they solve problems. Is this the product of their University education-somethings gone wrong somewhere then

[arista]

Zee said "Maybe they are students, but they're not students who are there to protest peacefully or achieve anything constructive, that's for sure. "





His name will be posted on here soon.

They are Students that want something Worse than you.
And they Hijack the Event in London.

[arista]

Zee
A Report and Live on Ch4 News now
had it all .
Even Student Thuggs


also Live on SkyNews Business Report with Jeff Randal.

[arista]

Hey look
a student that can Spell.

[arista]

[arista]

Nice Shoes Love

[billy123]

Should of turned the water cannons on the scum half of them look like they need a good wash!
That police van was apparently £80,000 of taxpayers money down the drain which will be nothing compared to the cost of the repair for the damage and the cleanup these selfish little scrotes arent happy even though their education is still being heavily subsidised by the tax payer and they are given interest free loans to pay for the courses that they dont have to pay back until they are earning a good wage.

Well guess what tough crap if you want something you have to be willing to contribute to it and not expect to be handed it on a plate.

[arista]

A Few Nasty Girls were there last night.



Rage of the girl rioters: Britain's students take to the streets again - and this time women are leading the charge

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz16HE6Rm00




And Zoe Williams (on the SkyNews Videos) Good Student is on
the Free Metro Front page