[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I totally agree joey, you put it very poetically and I appreciate your heartfelt post about your friend. It shows what perhaps I was trying to express, that it isn't so much about what you do but the hearts you touch that define you as valuable.

Thank you very much Kizzy and I agree with you, in what you are saying too as to the hearts you touch being something really valuable.

[Kizzy]

You're welcome Joey, I find the example given unacceptable.
I could understand if it had been between a doctor and a criminal, but it isn't and to me that's wrong.

[Ninastar]

there's always going to be better people than others, no matter what you do.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ninastar

there's always going to be better people than others, no matter what you do.

Yes Bang On Right


Thats why Communism has never ever worked



Feel The Force

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Bang On Right


Thats why Communism has never ever worked



Feel The Force

That's got nothing to do with communism not working. Communism will never work because people are inherently selfish.

[joeysteele]

May I just say, I don't think Redway meant offence at all in his opening post to anyone in particular.

I think he was just saying a general comment as to how others may judge or measure value on individuals.
I know of people who see the severely diasbled as having no worth, this Govt for instance for starters.

I really believe Redway was not stating a view that was his as to measuring value but just asking a question, sometimes it is an extreme example that provokes thought and gets the opinions flowing.
Redway is a really good guy and I am sure he meant no offence to anyone in the opening post.

I made my comment in which I higlighted a severely disabled friend of mine as an example of where I saw greater worth because of the disabilities. However I took no offence at the opening post question nor was I offended in anyway by it either.

I think the question brought about some good, strong and well thought out comments and that I firmly believe was the only intention from Redway and his opening post on the thread to gather others thoughts overall..

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

May I just say, I don't think Redway meant offence at all in his opening post to anyone in particular.

I think he was just saying a general comment as to how others may judge or measure value on individuals.
I know of people who see the severely diasbled as having no worth, this Govt for instance for starters.

I really believe Redway was not stating a view that was his as to measuring value but just asking a question, sometimes it is an extreme example that provokes thought and gets the opinions flowing.
Redway is a really good guy and I am sure he meant no offence to anyone in the opening post.

I made my comment in which I higlighted a severely disabled friend of mine as an example of where I saw greater worth because of the disabilities. However I took no offence at the opening post question nor was I offended in anyway by it either.

I think the question brought about some good, strong and well thought out comments and that I firmly believe was the only intention from Redway and his opening post on the thread to gather others thoughts overall..

Joey just to say,I for one believe David Cameron had a severely disabled son,I don't think for one minute he'de have thought he was worthless,infact one of the best pictures I have even seen was one of him cradling his son,so I really don't think its a case of them not caring,they do get a lot of help,my mom looks after an old disabled gentleman and although she doesn't get much in payment ,he does get help with the items he needs and altering his bungalow etc.We are all valuable to society in some ways,except of course the ones I have stated otherwise on other posts.

[Kizzy]

I think the idea was borne from the thread created on the news item that a 25yr old student was killed on his last delivery of pizza.
There was a feeling that some murders are more tragic than others, and that's right to a certain extent.
I feel that is where the concept of some people being percieved as more valuable came from. I might be wrong, but it felt like it at the time.
It made me think whether our priorities are changing and if viewing people in terms of duty was civilised, is it a real attitudinal shift?

[Niamh.]

Well, again going back to what Matt said I think that it's all really subjective, like if an elderly woman is murdered and a young mother with 3 kids is murdered, which is worse? I mean obviously they're both tragic and very wrong but the younger mother is probably more valuable in the sense that she'll leave three young children motherless. It's not a nice thing to talk about like that though

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, again going back to what Matt said I think that it's all really subjective, like if an elderly woman is murdered and a young mother with 3 kids is murdered, which is worse? I mean obviously they're both tragic and very wrong but the younger mother is probably more valuable in the sense that she'll leave three young children motherless. It's not a nice thing to talk about like that though

..yeah, I agree, that's more were my thought come from..that people are deemed more 'valuable' to a lesser degree now and certainly in medical emergency situations, even though it's not a nice thought and then an extreme situation were 'value' would become a priority and we'd almost be 'graded'....it is an interesting thing because it's not something that we really want to think, is it...if it was our own grandparent etc...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, again going back to what Matt said I think that it's all really subjective, like if an elderly woman is murdered and a young mother with 3 kids is murdered, which is worse? I mean obviously they're both tragic and very wrong but the younger mother is probably more valuable in the sense that she'll leave three young children motherless. It's not a nice thing to talk about like that though

Is that not just stating the obvious though, a younger person with more life to experience and young children would for most elicit more empathy maybe?

[Niamh.]

Right closing this thread for cleaning. When I reopen it will everyone please try and show a bit of respect for the OP and stay on topic and not ruin his thread?

[the truth]

its sad people don't go out and play, see and interact and meet each other so much nowadays
a lot of these values we speak of are often unseen behind a computer or a mobile phone

for me its the many many little things....I don't trust anyone who promotes himself as a huge charity helper, I like those modest types who do it and don't look for praise or fanfare. But also at the same time pay their legitimate taxes so aren't total hypocrites
a man who is poor but does put something back into society is a man I respect. a man who truly helps another in need is someone I respect. someone who listens with an open mind is a person I respect. many people can say things to make themselves look good but how many people are really there at the end of a line when a friend needs them in crisis, giving up hours of time to listen and advise? that's the test of value and integrity. Not simply people who are boozing pals.

people do surprise all the time though, the person you may think is a total idiot will often come through in a crisis....then the people who have truly suffered are able to offer their words of comfort wisdom and often optimism in the face of hellish suffering to others. many people are lost and seeking direction, heroes looking for targets

[Ammi]

..I don’t agree that with any other example it would have made the thread any dfferent..would an ‘older’ person be less valuable than a younger person..etc etc, the list is endless and nothing intentional was meant by the example used by the OP, just something we do when we make ‘hypothetical human interest’ threads..use examples etc...I guess the frustration of the OP and understandably so is the side tracking of a use of that example used, rather than his genuine interest in views on the topic, which I imagine is useful to his subject studies....

..anyway, not wanting to side track anymore and staying with the topic and as I think I posted earlier...my first instinct would be to say that we are all equally as ‘valuable’..but of course we are not..some not only have very little value to this planet but actually remove value from it in the case of murderers etc...and even people who are extremely valuable in just general things they do to care/have empathy for people in their lives...I guess we would call them the ‘average person’...in a culling of the population situation or an extreme situation when it might have to be decided..they could find their value very much diminished...because that is when ‘practical/logical’ would have to overrule ‘civilised’....and all empathy/compassion..’human’ feelings would have to be put aside...pr made secondary...actually, slightly off topic again, I always find that interesting in apocalyptic or plane crash survival movies...how the dynamics/priorities of everything changes and people within the group..(especially as I'm a recent fan to The Walking Dead series..)...interesting topic, Redway...