[Ammi]

..I really disliked James for that conversation..(or non conversation..)..I don't think it matters whether he believed in re-incarnation himself or what he personally believes or whether he thought Gary was talking complete silliness...it's fascinating to hear of people's beliefs and he asked him about it and then just got up and walked away with a condescending look on his face...just extreme ignorance and rudeness...he asked, he should listen...ignoramus....

[joeysteele]

I found what he was saying interesting but I don't believe in all that.
He does however and that is all that matters really.

[Robodog]

It's a very interesting topic he raises about reincarnation.

Reincarnation is pretty much a scientific fact if you think about it from a certain angle. Everything on this earth was once born in a star millions/billions of years ago. Since energy cannot be destroyed - only transformed - the energy of that star has been taking on different forms ever since. There is no death - just the transformation of energy into new states. Like a lava lamp - new shapes arising and disappearing - all from the same matter.

We are all recycled energy, and energy - like genetics - has intelligence, which organises itself into the forms of life we see all around us.

Memory of past lives may well be genetic memory or it could be memory carried forward in the energy of life itself.

As Pincho Paxton said perfectly above - creating nothing is impossible. The whole world is in a constant state of reincarnation of the same energy.

You yourself have reincarnated many times within this life right here - right now! Remember when you were five years old? Where is that five year old now? They are not here - but they reincarnated into the you who is reading these words.

Such is the game of life.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Robodog

It's a very interesting topic he raises about reincarnation.

Reincarnation is pretty much a scientific fact if you think about it from a certain angle. Everything on this earth was once born in a star millions/billions of years ago. Since energy cannot be destroyed - only transformed - the energy of that star has been taking on different forms ever since. There is no death - just the transformation of energy into new states. Like a lava lamp - new shapes arising and disappearing - all from the same matter.

We are all recycled energy, and energy - like genetics - has intelligence, which organises itself into the forms of life we see all around us.

Memory of past lives may well be genetic memory or it could be memory carried forward in the energy of life itself.

As Pincho Paxton said perfectly above - creating nothing is impossible. The whole world is in a constant state of reincarnation of the same energy.

You yourself have reincarnated many times within this life right here - right now! Remember when you were five years old? Where is that five year old now? They are not here - but they reincarnated into the you who is reading these words.

Such is the game of life.

It is a lovely topic, sadly many are afraid to investigate. There is much more to life than that which we perceive. Death is but a change in circumstance, different plains of thought...Meditation is one of the keys to a greater understanding.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Jules2

It is a lovely topic, sadly many are afraid to investigate. There is much more to life than that which we perceive. Death is but a change in circumstance, different plains of thought...Meditation is one of the keys to a greater understanding.

Absolutely. It's great we get to talk about it like this. One of the good things about these trying times we live in is that more and more people are becoming interested in these subjects and more information is coming out about it all the time.

And as you say - meditation and visualisation are key to understanding and also creating the conditions of our life.

Our beliefs shape our reality - in this world and beyond. That's why (for all the cliches) peace and love are so essential to meditate on and to think about and live by - in order to make our world and our individual lives all the better.

Life resonates out from our mind and becomes form. Better get some goodness going on the inside y'all!

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Absolutely. It's great we get to talk about it like this. One of the good things about these trying times we live in is that more and more people are becoming interested in these subjects and more information is coming out about it all the time.

And as you say - meditation and visualisation are key to understanding and also creating the conditions of our life.

Our beliefs shape our reality - in this world and beyond. That's why (for all the cliches) peace and love are so essential to meditate on and to think about and live by - in order to make our world and our individual lives all the better.

Life resonates out from our mind and becomes form. Better get some goodness going on the inside y'all!

I think you and I would get on very well, it is hard to speak of the things which are dear to the heart, our own understanding of life which we realise could help in a lot of situations. It isnt religion, ego or anything untoward it is simply life which belongs to all.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Jules2

I think you and I would get on very well, it is hard to speak of the things which are dear to the heart, our own understanding of life which we realise could help in a lot of situations. It isnt religion, ego or anything untoward it is simply life which belongs to all.

I totally agree. So heartwarming to hear you say those things. Like you say it's not about religion but the life force we all share and are made of and such ways of thinking helps in so many ways.

I really wasn't expecting to be talking about this subject on here tonight - let alone connect with someone who thinks in the same way as me. That is a rare thing and really nice. Do you read many books on these subjects?

[CaudleHalbard]

Some scientists have recently concluded that consciousness is a continuum. Not sure about the details of it but it is linked to quantum theory.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Some scientists have recently concluded that consciousness is a continuum. Not sure about the details of it but it is linked to quantum theory.

The best way to imagine it is...

You can't be aware of being dead, so if you are soil for a trillion years you still wake up as something else. To you it is instant. You are instantly something else that is aware of its surroundings... the trillion years doesn't count as anything.

But there are lots of ways to scientifically avoid nothingness.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Some scientists have recently concluded that consciousness is a continuum. Not sure about the details of it but it is linked to quantum theory.

Quantum physics shows us that particles do not come from other particles - but come from formlessness. Particles come from formlessness!

This is the closest explanation i have ever come across where science describes the miracle of life itself.

Also as proved many times - the observer influences the observed. Particles behave differently when someone is watching to when someone is not! This shows the effect of consciousness on the behaviour of matter at the smallest level.

.

[fredmeneedle]

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

Neither could an earthly body exist without a soul/mind to sustain it.

The soul/mind is the difference between a dead body and a live one.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

This is all about 'you' being the one that has to understand it, and give it a name. What if an alien with the ability to travel space told you that sentience must always continue at the instance that it is destroyed. OK so now you would be given some new information to tell the world. This satisfies 'you', and that is all that you seem to need. But the alien could be 'me'. You do not know who I am. I mean that my intelligence could be equal to the alien.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

Tbh I do not see Gary as deluded, he has a great insight but the house isnt really the place to give his ideas out, they have made too much fun of him because many do not understand. Many are set in their ways and do not want to be taken out of their comfy corners but if only some would just let a little light in much would be known and the total light would be a beacon for others. The world is truly in a bad state. Ok I guess we cannot prove our feelings or experiences but we can be true to ourselves, this is what Gary is, true to himself.

From the depth of darkness there shone a light,
A tiny spark but oh so bright.
The darkness changed itself to day,
The light was sent to show the way.
JW.

[fredmeneedle]

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

For most people that may be true.. but I solved it all. The problem with solving everything is that you only solve it for yourself. Telling people about it doesn't work. They have to solve it themselves. If they can't solve it themselves they can't understand the solution. Catch 22.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

For most people that may be true.. but I solved it all. The problem with solving everything is that you only solve it for yourself. Telling people about it doesn't work. They have to solve it themselves. If they can't solve it themselves they can't understand the solution. Catch 22.

Well said I agree totally, it is the same as my "an experience is only an experience to the person having it, to others it could be a load of bunkum" it is just so hard to prove, we cannot.....

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jules2

Well said I agree totally, it is the same as my "an experience is only an experience to the person having it, to others it could be a load of bunkum" it is just so hard to prove, we cannot.....

you can learn from others experiences, you dont need to prove anything though? listening and learning it depends whether you can put your ego aside first, alas jumped up james sorry king james of england, coudlnt do that, we dont do silly things like listening and learning in england do we james?

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by the truth

you can learn from others experiences, you dont need to prove anything though? listening and learning it depends whether you can put your ego aside first, alas jumped up james sorry king james of england, coudlnt do that, we dont do silly things like listening and learning in england do we james?

Hi Truth, I do so agree with what you are saying but the experiences I am talking about tbh, is the out of body and astral projection. Many find these hard to accept but many of us can say they are definitely truth. Because some do not understand it is easier to just make fun of that person, mind as someone said, if the person is liked he may be treated with tolerance but in the case of Gary, he isnt liked so they just put everything down to him being a doddery old man. He isnt though, he has his own truths and we are all on a pathway to discovery. Many in there wont realise that until they are past it they will have missed out on so much but, that is only my truth and I respect others.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

'Soul' is an unfortunate term that (like the word 'God') has too many misleading connotations as some cheap word to sum up the unexplained. Like the word 'love' and 'weird' it means different things to different people.

For me, soul is a conscious intelligence that experiences and feels. I actually prefer the word 'mind'. Mind is different from brain. The brain is a tool that the mind uses to think and analyse. But Mind has an intelligence seperate from the brain. There is mind in every cell of mammals, plants etc causing them to grow, be certain colours, shapes etc.

Mind (or soul) to me is the life force which rides and influences physical matter in the game of life.

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

A good friend of mine believed that and he took 42 tablets to kill himself ! His name was Goat and he was the only person ever to break his leg whilst playing chess in China > What a wake that was !!!

[fredmeneedle]

I do not claim to have solved anything.... only that I do not need ridiculous artefacts and beliefs to satisfy my unattainable answers to the origins of the universe.... there IS no answer and never will be unless a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness exists and makes itself known...if you choose to regard that as a wait for "the second coming" (another coping mechanism) then go ahead, but I can cope with dealing with the finite here and now without using bunkum (that always has the word "faith" in there somewhere) to explain our origins.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

I do not claim to have solved anything.... only that I do not need ridiculous artefacts and beliefs to satisfy my unattainable answers to the origins of the universe.... there IS no answer and never will be unless a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness exists and makes itself known...if you choose to regard that as a wait for "the second coming" (another coping mechanism) then go ahead, but I can cope with dealing with the finite here and now without using bunkum (that always has the word "faith" in there somewhere) to explain our origins.

You claim to have answers that I have bolded. To say that there is no answer is your personal answer. It is the same as saying that the Universe has no answer, but of course it does. Of course it is not a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness. That would make it greater than us, to create us, which is backward evolution. Being as we could create AI greater than ourselves we evolve forwards not backwards.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

I do not claim to have solved anything.... only that I do not need ridiculous artefacts and beliefs to satisfy my unattainable answers to the origins of the universe.... there IS no answer and never will be unless a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness exists and makes itself known...if you choose to regard that as a wait for "the second coming" (another coping mechanism) then go ahead, but I can cope with dealing with the finite here and now without using bunkum (that always has the word "faith" in there somewhere) to explain our origins.

Who knows eh, I believe that we each have to find our own way, not one person has the right to say they are totally right because as you say, we do not really know. I think one of the greatest things to try to do is to not harm another. This was a great belief of the Khuna tribes, tribes which were in existence long before the coming of the Nazarene. They were in tune with nature and knew how to use the forces of energy for their own protection and healing. I personally do not believe in a "second coming" I am not sure about the first other than the fact that the man in question was a great healer and mystic but many would disagree. Bearing this in mind I do not have the right to take away anothers "faith"

To bring it back to CBB though Gary truly believes and I can see why he does.

[fredmeneedle]

Whatever you call it Robodog, it's an unknown just he same as the 'x' in algebra and we all have our ways of imagining it... I grok where you are coming from and 'mind' is just as vague a term as 'soul' to mean 'an unknown controlling something-or-other' (I think Freud called it the 'Id') whatever WORD you se doesn't really disguise the fact that "we do not know what it is"!