[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Jules2

It is a lovely topic, sadly many are afraid to investigate. There is much more to life than that which we perceive. Death is but a change in circumstance, different plains of thought...Meditation is one of the keys to a greater understanding.

Absolutely. It's great we get to talk about it like this. One of the good things about these trying times we live in is that more and more people are becoming interested in these subjects and more information is coming out about it all the time.

And as you say - meditation and visualisation are key to understanding and also creating the conditions of our life.

Our beliefs shape our reality - in this world and beyond. That's why (for all the cliches) peace and love are so essential to meditate on and to think about and live by - in order to make our world and our individual lives all the better.

Life resonates out from our mind and becomes form. Better get some goodness going on the inside y'all!

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Spiritually is a posh word for bbeleving bollocks to make u feel special

Aw if that is what you believe for if you go to the centre of TRUTH you have U you are the truth. We are our own truths and we are all on a learning curb, just try not to close the doors which may take you further. Everything naturally depends on what we believe, for me I love the discovery it has helped me to face many trials and tribulations, many of which I could have gone under but the faith uplifted and yes, it made me feel very special. We are all special in our own ways.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Some scientists have recently concluded that consciousness is a continuum. Not sure about the details of it but it is linked to quantum theory.

Quantum physics shows us that particles do not come from other particles - but come from formlessness. Particles come from formlessness!

This is the closest explanation i have ever come across where science describes the miracle of life itself.

Also as proved many times - the observer influences the observed. Particles behave differently when someone is watching to when someone is not! This shows the effect of consciousness on the behaviour of matter at the smallest level.

.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Absolutely. It's great we get to talk about it like this. One of the good things about these trying times we live in is that more and more people are becoming interested in these subjects and more information is coming out about it all the time.

And as you say - meditation and visualisation are key to understanding and also creating the conditions of our life.

Our beliefs shape our reality - in this world and beyond. That's why (for all the cliches) peace and love are so essential to meditate on and to think about and live by - in order to make our world and our individual lives all the better.

Life resonates out from our mind and becomes form. Better get some goodness going on the inside y'all!

I think you and I would get on very well, it is hard to speak of the things which are dear to the heart, our own understanding of life which we realise could help in a lot of situations. It isnt religion, ego or anything untoward it is simply life which belongs to all.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Jules2

I think you and I would get on very well, it is hard to speak of the things which are dear to the heart, our own understanding of life which we realise could help in a lot of situations. It isnt religion, ego or anything untoward it is simply life which belongs to all.

I totally agree. So heartwarming to hear you say those things. Like you say it's not about religion but the life force we all share and are made of and such ways of thinking helps in so many ways.

I really wasn't expecting to be talking about this subject on here tonight - let alone connect with someone who thinks in the same way as me. That is a rare thing and really nice. Do you read many books on these subjects?

[fredmeneedle]

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

Neither could an earthly body exist without a soul/mind to sustain it.

The soul/mind is the difference between a dead body and a live one.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

This is all about 'you' being the one that has to understand it, and give it a name. What if an alien with the ability to travel space told you that sentience must always continue at the instance that it is destroyed. OK so now you would be given some new information to tell the world. This satisfies 'you', and that is all that you seem to need. But the alien could be 'me'. You do not know who I am. I mean that my intelligence could be equal to the alien.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Robodog

I totally agree. So heartwarming to hear you say those things. Like you say it's not about religion but the life force we all share and are made of and such ways of thinking helps in so many ways.

I really wasn't expecting to be talking about this subject on here tonight - let alone connect with someone who thinks in the same way as me. That is a rare thing and really nice. Do you read many books on these subjects?

I am not into quantum physics or anything like that, I just seem to know the things I know. I have no doubt at all that on the physical level your intelligence is far greater than mine, I have tried to study scientific things but I read and then lose the plot so to speak.

Now the other levels of understanding is a different thing, I have had so many experiences that I cannot deny them. I used to read a lot and have many cds on talks by different people. Whilst I seem grounded at the moment I have had many astral experiences, going back into the past and then realising that the past, present and future are still here. We are possibly just on a dimensional frame of life. I have experienced past lives... My mind is ever open and I have much to learn, always striving to meet a goal. Having said that though, I take every day as it comes as we are on a material plain of thought and to me, that is the only way to proceed to get through it.

[fredmeneedle]

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

For most people that may be true.. but I solved it all. The problem with solving everything is that you only solve it for yourself. Telling people about it doesn't work. They have to solve it themselves. If they can't solve it themselves they can't understand the solution. Catch 22.

[puzzled]

Originally Posted by CaudleHalbard

Yes on the orders of Emperor Constantine 4th century AD, as I vaguely recall.

I don't think so.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Jules2

I am not into quantum physics or anything like that, I just seem to know the things I know. I have no doubt at all that on the physical level your intelligence is far greater than mine, I have tried to study scientific things but I read and then lose the plot so to speak.

Now the other levels of understanding is a different thing, I have had so many experiences that I cannot deny them. I used to read a lot and have many cds on talks by different people. Whilst I seem grounded at the moment I have had many astral experiences, going back into the past and then realising that the past, present and future are still here. We are possibly just on a dimensional frame of life. I have experienced past lives... My mind is ever open and I have much to learn, always striving to meet a goal. Having said that though, I take every day as it comes as we are on a material plain of thought and to me, that is the only way to proceed to get through it.

Ah that is kind of you to think but really - i have no mind for science - the only quantum physics stuff i know has been from exactly the kind of books and cds etc you are talking about - people like Wayne Dyer or Eckhart Tolle. I am a creative type and hardcore science etc gets lost on me! I need other people to translate it into ways i can grasp.

I also have had experiences as you have talked about, experiencing the past as clear as day and healing it etc.

Tell you what - do you want to message me privately as i can see me and you have a lot we could talk about and i don't want our conversation to take over this thread!

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Reincarnation is bunkum -- and note how deluded tossers like Gary are always previously alive as some magnificent changer of history, never an insignificant serf.... of course all you people who base your assertions around physics by saying that "energy is a constant therefore everything that has ever existed remains" which is perfectly in agreement with us realists, just the same as all the water you drink has been passed through millions of kidneys and urinary tracts, but this does not explain, and never will, what exactly defines the conscious reasoning mind that we humans seem to possess uniquely amongst all the other species on the planet. *I* cannot explain it either but I am damn sure that each and every one is unique in its formation from birth to death and as a basically electro-chemical organism cannot exist or persist without an earthly body to sustain it.

Tbh I do not see Gary as deluded, he has a great insight but the house isnt really the place to give his ideas out, they have made too much fun of him because many do not understand. Many are set in their ways and do not want to be taken out of their comfy corners but if only some would just let a little light in much would be known and the total light would be a beacon for others. The world is truly in a bad state. Ok I guess we cannot prove our feelings or experiences but we can be true to ourselves, this is what Gary is, true to himself.

From the depth of darkness there shone a light,
A tiny spark but oh so bright.
The darkness changed itself to day,
The light was sent to show the way.
JW.

[fredmeneedle]

I do not claim to have solved anything.... only that I do not need ridiculous artefacts and beliefs to satisfy my unattainable answers to the origins of the universe.... there IS no answer and never will be unless a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness exists and makes itself known...if you choose to regard that as a wait for "the second coming" (another coping mechanism) then go ahead, but I can cope with dealing with the finite here and now without using bunkum (that always has the word "faith" in there somewhere) to explain our origins.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

'Soul' is a synonym for 'consciousness' used to help people too afraid to think about what consciousness really is to allow them to assign a term for it, just as the concept of 'God' is used to answer the question of "why are we here" for people who cannot accept the fact that there is no real, proven, answer to that question....it's like the perennial question of "what came before the big bang" and the concept that 'time' is an entirely invented concept by humans because everything is actually happening all at once using certain quantum theories but if you delved into every nuance of life and the universe you would be in a constant state of mental turmoil. Therefore people adopt religion, amongst other things (drugs, alcohol, alien theorists, psychosis) as a coping mechanism for having to live with the unanswered questions about what is "the meaning of life the universe and everything" posed by our logical-thinking intellects. This was, in an oblique satirical dig, the point that Douglas Adams was making when he said the answer was '42'.

'Soul' is an unfortunate term that (like the word 'God') has too many misleading connotations as some cheap word to sum up the unexplained. Like the word 'love' and 'weird' it means different things to different people.

For me, soul is a conscious intelligence that experiences and feels. I actually prefer the word 'mind'. Mind is different from brain. The brain is a tool that the mind uses to think and analyse. But Mind has an intelligence seperate from the brain. There is mind in every cell of mammals, plants etc causing them to grow, be certain colours, shapes etc.

Mind (or soul) to me is the life force which rides and influences physical matter in the game of life.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by Nell_McCoy

All religion is a delusion in fact its almost a mental illness - look what's going on in the middle east for goodness sake.

I personally am not talking about religion, it isnt religion, Gary has a great understanding of the things which can be for all. The thing is many get to a certain state and then think they are right but, there is always another level of understanding to obtain. Yes the middle east, it is therefore up to each one of us to try and help the best we can but, we have to believe in the way.

[fredmeneedle]

Whatever you call it Robodog, it's an unknown just he same as the 'x' in algebra and we all have our ways of imagining it... I grok where you are coming from and 'mind' is just as vague a term as 'soul' to mean 'an unknown controlling something-or-other' (I think Freud called it the 'Id') whatever WORD you se doesn't really disguise the fact that "we do not know what it is"!

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Whatever you call it Robodog, it's an unknown just he same as the 'x' in algebra and we all have our ways of imagining it... I grok where you are coming from and 'mind' is just as vague a term as 'soul' to mean 'an unknown controlling something-or-other' (I think Freud called it the 'Id') whatever WORD you se doesn't really disguise the fact that "we do not know what it is"!

Yeah it's an interesting one - seeing as we are it but can't explain it !

A tongue cannot taste itself, a sword cannot cut itself etc

[fredmeneedle]

OK to get back on topic, my personal opinion is that Gary's brain is addled from years of substance abuse and lots of USA 'psychs' have had him on the couch to extort as much dosh from him as they could whist instilling delusions that help him cope with sober living... the man is a shambling wreck with a superficial overlay of limited social abilities and would, if he were someone's granddad in the UK, be in a sheltered housing complex.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

I do not claim to have solved anything.... only that I do not need ridiculous artefacts and beliefs to satisfy my unattainable answers to the origins of the universe.... there IS no answer and never will be unless a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness exists and makes itself known...if you choose to regard that as a wait for "the second coming" (another coping mechanism) then go ahead, but I can cope with dealing with the finite here and now without using bunkum (that always has the word "faith" in there somewhere) to explain our origins.

You claim to have answers that I have bolded. To say that there is no answer is your personal answer. It is the same as saying that the Universe has no answer, but of course it does. Of course it is not a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness. That would make it greater than us, to create us, which is backward evolution. Being as we could create AI greater than ourselves we evolve forwards not backwards.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

OK to get back on topic, my personal opinion is that Gary's brain is addled from years of substance abuse and lots of USA 'psychs' have had him on the couch to extort as much dosh from him as they could whist instilling delusions that help him cope with sober living... the man is a shambling wreck with a superficial overlay of limited social abilities and would, if he were someone's granddad in the UK, be in a sheltered housing complex.

He would be a damn cool and interesting Granddad. I'd love to hang out with him.

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

I do not claim to have solved anything.... only that I do not need ridiculous artefacts and beliefs to satisfy my unattainable answers to the origins of the universe.... there IS no answer and never will be unless a greater force and intellect than our collective earthly consciousness exists and makes itself known...if you choose to regard that as a wait for "the second coming" (another coping mechanism) then go ahead, but I can cope with dealing with the finite here and now without using bunkum (that always has the word "faith" in there somewhere) to explain our origins.

Who knows eh, I believe that we each have to find our own way, not one person has the right to say they are totally right because as you say, we do not really know. I think one of the greatest things to try to do is to not harm another. This was a great belief of the Khuna tribes, tribes which were in existence long before the coming of the Nazarene. They were in tune with nature and knew how to use the forces of energy for their own protection and healing. I personally do not believe in a "second coming" I am not sure about the first other than the fact that the man in question was a great healer and mystic but many would disagree. Bearing this in mind I do not have the right to take away anothers "faith"

To bring it back to CBB though Gary truly believes and I can see why he does.

[fredmeneedle]

@ Pincho Paxton....if you think you will assume the debating skills of Jeremy by adopting his surname then you need to reassess... highlighting my sentence saying "there IS no answer and never will be..." and then saying that "you claim to have answers that I have bolded..." is crass daftness.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by fredmeneedle

Whatever you call it Robodog, it's an unknown just he same as the 'x' in algebra and we all have our ways of imagining it... I grok where you are coming from and 'mind' is just as vague a term as 'soul' to mean 'an unknown controlling something-or-other' (I think Freud called it the 'Id') whatever WORD you se doesn't really disguise the fact that "we do not know what it is"!

It's called sentience. It is simply to give yourself a kick of energy that leads to another kick of energy. Like playing Swingball by yourself. You can hit the ball high, and in the future you will have to reach up high to get it, you can hit the ball low, and in the future you will have to reach low to get it. You are influencing yourself.