[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I can't see you agreeing with this but allowing free movement of people within the EU has proven to be very fruitful for our economy. And lets not forget that hundreds of thousands of Brits work or retire to other EU countries. There are as many Brits living in other EU countries as there are EU citizens living in Britain.

The Fiscal effects of immigration is an interesting read http://www.cream-migration.org/publ_.../CDP_22_13.pdf

There are many benefits of remaining in the EU and they are their for you to peruse if only you are interested enough to read them.

From the linked website you provide above Red:

"CReAM is an independent and interdisciplinary research centre located in the Department of Economics at University College London."

Oh My!, INDEPENDENT: that means 'IMPARTIAL', 'NO VESTED INTEREST' doesn't it?

And the authors and all the reasearch staff are all intellectuals based in a British University as well.

Then, Gee, their pro-immigration 50 page investigatory Paper entitled; "THE FISCAL EFFECTS OF IMMIGRATION TO THE UK" has to be scrupulously fair, hasn't it?

What's more, its conclusion that European immigrants to the UK have paid more in taxes than they received in benefits, helping to relieve the fiscal burden on UK-born workers and contributing to the financing of public services" must be true also.

I can't help but notice though that this 'investigatory research paper' only deals with immigration since 2005, and then only specifically with EUROPEAN immigrants, but 'Hey Ho' as my good friend Forrest says; "Independent is as impartial does".

So who are "Cream"? Let's have a look:

Christian Dustmann, Director

Jonathan Wadsworth, Deputy Director

Ian Preston, Deputy Research Director

Marco Alfano, Senior Research Officer

Thomas Cornelissen, Senior Research Officer

Anna Okatenko, Senior Research Officer

Joseph-Simon Görlach, Research Officer

Ines Helm, Research Officer

Luigi Minale, Research Officer

Anna Raute, Research Officer

Jerome Adda, Research Fellow

Samuel Berlinski, Research Fellow

Pedro Carneiro, Research Fellow

Francesco Fasani, Research Fellow

Tommaso Frattini, Research Fellow

Albrecht Glitz, Research Fellow

Steve Machin, Research Fellow

Suphanit Piyapromdee, Research Fellow

Imran Rasul, Research Fellow

Uta Schoenberg, Research Fellow

And for maximum balance, let's add 'The Coordinator',

Maria Lambrianidou

Independent/Impartial/No Vested Interest..... Mmmm. The last 'Independent' paper I read similar to this was: "Why Victorian London Needs Waif And Stray Children" and the authors were some guys called ...err... yeah that's it, Fagin and Bill Sikes.

Please excuse me while I burst into laughter, then I will post a response complete with several links to rebuttal articles - all from as equally educated and qualified academics, and with suitably impressive facts and data as the above 'independent' paper.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

From the linked website you provide above Red:

"CReAM is an independent and interdisciplinary research centre located in the Department of Economics at University College London."

Oh My!, INDEPENDENT: that means 'IMPARTIAL', 'NO VESTED INTEREST' doesn't it?

And the authors and all the reasearch staff are all intellectuals based in a British University as well.

Then, Gee, their pro-immigration 50 page investigatory Paper entitled; "THE FISCAL EFFECTS OF IMMIGRATION TO THE UK" has to be scrupulously fair, hasn't it?

What's more, its conclusion that European immigrants to the UK have paid more in taxes than they received in benefits, helping to relieve the fiscal burden on UK-born workers and contributing to the financing of public services" must be true also.

I can't help but notice though that this 'investigatory research paper' only deals with immigration since 2005, and then only specifically with EUROPEAN immigrants, but 'Hey Ho' as my good friend Forrest says; "Independent is as impartial does".

So who are "Cream"? Let's have a look:

Christian Dustmann, Director

Jonathan Wadsworth, Deputy Director

Ian Preston, Deputy Research Director

Marco Alfano, Senior Research Officer

Thomas Cornelissen, Senior Research Officer

Anna Okatenko, Senior Research Officer

Joseph-Simon Görlach, Research Officer

Ines Helm, Research Officer

Luigi Minale, Research Officer

Anna Raute, Research Officer

Jerome Adda, Research Fellow

Samuel Berlinski, Research Fellow

Pedro Carneiro, Research Fellow

Francesco Fasani, Research Fellow

Tommaso Frattini, Research Fellow

Albrecht Glitz, Research Fellow

Steve Machin, Research Fellow

Suphanit Piyapromdee, Research Fellow

Imran Rasul, Research Fellow

Uta Schoenberg, Research Fellow

And for maximum balance, let's add 'The Coordinator',

Maria Lambrianidou

Independent/Impartial/No Vested Interest..... Mmmm. The last 'Independent' paper I read similar to this was: "Why Victorian London Needs Waif And Stray Children" and the authors were some guys called ...err... yeah that's it, Fagin and Bill Sikes.

Please excuse me while I burst into laughter, then I will post a response complete with several links to rebuttal articles - all from as equally educated and qualified academics, and with suitably impressive facts and data as the above 'independent' paper.

I'm glad my post and link made you laugh kirk. There's not enough laughter in the world!

Goes off and has a little snigger to myself.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I can't see you agreeing with this but allowing free movement of people within the EU has proven to be very fruitful for our economy. And lets not forget that hundreds of thousands of Brits work or retire to other EU countries. There are as many Brits living in other EU countries as there are EU citizens living in Britain.

The Fiscal effects of immigration is an interesting read http://www.cream-migration.org/publ_.../CDP_22_13.pdf

There are many benefits of remaining in the EU and they are their for you to peruse if only you are interested enough to read them.

There are around two million Brits living and working in Europe. There are about sixty four million citizens in the UK.

It's fair to say that there are also many benefits of leaving the EU if you yourself were interested enough to read them.

[user104658]

Ffs, you have listed random negative things about the country and attributed them to Europe / foreigners (when they have nothing to do with it) and willfully ignored anything positivite that has been listed (such as the free flowing trade that is WORTH BILLIONS).

Can YOU explain your reasoning? Can you explain how badly maintained roads, overcrowded classrooms, high house prices, or hospital waiting times would be magically solved by not being in the EU? Zero hour contracts, maybe? Availability of cancer therapies?

Can you explain why several other EU member countries manage to NOT have these problems at the same level we do, if it's all the fault of Europe?

I'm guessing not. Because it's all down to piss poor inefficient management OF THE UK BY THE UK. You're just taking the Farage route of using immigration and the EU as a scapegoat for absolutely everything. It becomes farcical.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Ffs, you have listed random negative things about the country and attributed them to Europe / foreigners (when they have nothing to do with it) and willfully ignored anything positivite that has been listed (such as the free flowing trade that is WORTH BILLIONS).

Can YOU explain your reasoning? Can you explain how badly maintained roads, overcrowded classrooms, high house prices, or hospital waiting times would be magically solved by not being in the EU? Zero hour contracts, maybe? Availability of cancer therapies?

Can you explain why several other EU member countries manage to NOT have these problems at the same level we do, if it's all the fault of Europe?

I'm guessing not. Because it's all down to piss poor inefficient management OF THE UK BY THE UK. You're just taking the Farage route of using immigration and the EU as a scapegoat for absolutely everything. It becomes farcical.

Well OK then....I see by your logic being in Europe has had no effect on lots of EU Countries good or bad, the good Countries are good and the Bad ones bad regardless of European membership.

So if we as appears to be the case are one of the bad ones.......why the hell are we paying millions of pounds to Brussells just to make our Country even worse...!!!

Would it not be better to either get out of Europe completely or throw ourselves onto the feet of the EU as the basket case we obviously are and plead for Money........lots and lots of money to rebuild our Roads, Railways, Schools, hospitals....etc....etc....

Now that would make more sense.....

[Samuel.]

Toy Soldier in any Serious Debates thread

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

Toy Soldier in any Serious Debates thread

That's your contribution to this debate then...???

[Samuel.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

That's your contribution to this debate then...???

Indeed it is

Hope you enjoyed it

[Nedusa]

Perhaps Toy Soldier should run for president then, he seems to have all the answers.... Lol

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Perhaps Toy Soldier should run for president then, he seems to have all the answers.... Lol

He maybe,with respect, just looks at both sides and knows things are rarely all black or white but there is lots of grey inbetween all that.
I agree with all he has said.

Nothing is all negative or all positive.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

He maybe,with respect, just looks at both sides and knows things are rarely all black or white but there is lots of grey inbetween all that.
I agree with all he has said.

Nothing is all negative or all positive.

Nicely put Joey

[empire]

the EUSSR dream is over, half of the british public need to wake up, greece, italy,spain, where the poverty rate gets higher, and higher, greece is heading for a civil war, why should any country and its people, suffer for the sake of the eu state,

[Josy]

3

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Josy

3

What does this mean Josy?

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

What does this mean Josy?

It;s her answer to the question in the thread title.

I think it will be 6.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

It;s her answer to the question in the thread title.

I think it will be 6.

Oh Thanks Goth. I feel like a duhbrain now.

And I hope that your estimate is closer than Josy's .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Oh Thanks Goth. I feel like a duhbrain now. .

A Dubaian?? Come on Kirk, just because they're Mooslims doesn't mean they're stupid!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Josy

3

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

What does this mean Josy?

it means Josy has not lost sight of the original question

[Kizzy]

More info that shoots a hole in the 'health tourism' UKIP angle.

'The cost of treating British people who become ill while travelling in Europe is five times higher than the cost of treating ill visitors from other European countries in the UK, official figures show.

The Department of Health data, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, shows that it cost £30m in 2013-14 to meet the costs of European visitors using the National Health Service. This is less than one-fifth of the £155m cost to other states in the European single market for treating ill British tourists.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...nt-cost-to-nhs

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

More info that shoots a hole in the 'health tourism' UKIP angle.

'The cost of treating British people who become ill while travelling in Europe is five times higher than the cost of treating ill visitors from other European countries in the UK, official figures show.

The Department of Health data, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, shows that it cost £30m in 2013-14 to meet the costs of European visitors using the National Health Service. This is less than one-fifth of the £155m cost to other states in the European single market for treating ill British tourists.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...nt-cost-to-nhs

Also put that 30 million into the perspective of the annual nhs budget which I believe is over 95 billion. Its not even going to dent our deficit which would be the only reason for restricting who medical treatment is provided to.

[Kizzy]

UKIPs popularity is on the wane, they are a bit of a one trick pony ...do they even have a manifesto yet?

I had no idea Al Murray was standing in south Thanet

Spoiler:

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

UKIPs popularity is on the wane, they are a bit of a one trick pony ...do they even have a manifesto yet?

I had no idea Al Murray was standing in south Thanet

Spoiler:

People in Scotland used to say that about the SNP as well.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

People in Scotland used to say that about the SNP as well.

That their only policy was immigration?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That their only policy was immigration?

No...the bit in bold.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

People in Scotland used to say that about the SNP as well.

Only in the sense that the SNP's primary reason for existence (firstly independence, but in absence of that fighting for Scotland within the UK) would be nullified if independence was achieved... But it hasn't been.