[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niall

Why is it a complicated subject? There are scores of queer people in society and kids are going to meet them no matter what, so why should gay people be censored from children's television? Queer people are a normal part of life just as the sun rising is, and quite frankly anyone who thinks they shouldn't be included reeks of homophobia to me.

..also following on from what Caitlin has said Niall.../complicated also because for people working in any capacity in Children's TV...if the decision to have gay characters which they may be in total agreement with themselves etc...also meant a 'mass switch off' by parents..?..then that could be a loss of job and livelihood for them as well/so lots of perspectives to think about...?...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..also following on from what Caitlin has said Niall.../complicated also because for people working in any capacity in Children's TV...if the decision to have gay characters which they may be in total agreement with themselves etc...also meant a 'mass switch off' by parents..?..then that could be a loss of job and livelihood for them as well/so lots of perspectives to think about...?...

Would that not be pandering to the bigots? It's not a progressive society if nothing ever changes, we have these new laws to promote equality yet there is nothing to celebrate it or instill it as an acceptable social norm.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Would that not be pandering to the bigots? It's not a progressive society if nothing ever changes, we have these new laws to promote equality yet there is nothing to celebrate it or instill it as an acceptable social norm.

It would definitely be pandering to bigots. no doubt about it.

maybe with the new influx of muslim refugees we can't show anyone eating pork on TV, because they might boycott. No more Pork or Bacon dishes on Masterchef, the muslims might get offended.

since when is it okay to limit people just because of IDIOTIC religious beliefs?? do we live in a free world or not???

[Ashley.]

Yes
AProducer'sWetDream, armand.kay, Ashley., Chaos, Chewy, Dollface, extracheezz, Jarrod, Jay., JoshBB, kirklancaster, Kizzy, LemonJam, letmein, lostalex, Lostie!, LukeB, MB., Natalie., Shaun, Smithy, Třm, Who Is She?, Will1999, Withano, Xtopher

No
LeatherTrumpet

welp

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Yes
AProducer'sWetDream, armand.kay, Ashley., Chaos, Chewy, Dollface, extracheezz, Jarrod, Jay., JoshBB, kirklancaster, Kizzy, LemonJam, letmein, lostalex, Lostie!, LukeB, MB., Natalie., Shaun, Smithy, Třm, Who Is She?, Will1999, Withano, Xtopher

No
LeatherTrumpet

welp

As said LT doesn't believe religion should be taught either before any silly accusations begin.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Yes
AProducer'sWetDream, armand.kay, Ashley., Chaos, Chewy, Dollface, extracheezz, Jarrod, Jay., JoshBB, kirklancaster, Kizzy, LemonJam, letmein, lostalex, Lostie!, LukeB, MB., Natalie., Shaun, Smithy, Třm, Who Is She?, Will1999, Withano, Xtopher

No
LeatherTrumpet

welp

Hey, it's a public poll... very interesting.

[lostalex]

sex has no more to do with gay love than it does with straight love. so why is it too sexual to have gay characters showing love in a story than it is for straight characters to show love? The vast majority of disney movies include a heterosexual love story, but no one complains it's too sexual.

Since when is love and romance overtly sexual?

Maybe we should arrest all straight parents who dare to hug or kiss in front of their own kids. But if 2 men hug and kiss in front of kids it's too sexual?

[Kizzy]

* peppa looks around nervously*

[Northern Monkey]

I voted no as a general vote.But i'm not totally against it.I think it depends on the age range that these shows are aimed at really.I'd say no for shows aimed at really young kids who have'nt even learned about the birds and the bees yet and about relationships in general.I think it could just confuse them and also raise questions that the parents are'nt ready to answer yet.I mean maybe if there was a warning at the start so the parents could choose wether their kids watch or not then that would be ok but without knowing which shows this would be in then parents have no control over when their kids are exposed to it.
I think parents need to be in control of when they decide to educate their children on certain subjects and wether their kids are ready or not,Kids mature at different rates.Also when kids do sex education at school and learn about what men and women do to make babies it could raise questions about what men and men or women and women do and i don't think alot of parents or teachers would be
A.knowledgable enough
or
B.would want to have to try and explain it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I voted no as a general vote.But i'm not totally against it.I think it depends on the age range that these shows are aimed at really.I'd say no for shows aimed at really young kids who have'nt even learned about the birds and the bees yet and about relationships in general.I think it could just confuse them and also raise questions that the parents are'nt ready to answer yet.I mean maybe if there was a warning at the start so the parents could choose wether their kids watch or not then that would be ok but without knowing which shows this would be in then parents have no control over when their kids are exposed to it.
I think parents need to be in control of when they decide to educate their children on certain subjects and wether their kids are ready or not,Kids mature at different rates.Also when kids do sex education at school and learn about what men and women do to make babies it could raise questions about what men and men or women and women do and i don't think alot of parents or teachers would be
A.knowledgable enough
or
B.would want to have to try and explain it.

That is a very good point

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I voted no as a general vote.But i'm not totally against it.I think it depends on the age range that these shows are aimed at really.I'd say no for shows aimed at really young kids who have'nt even learned about the birds and the bees yet and about relationships in general.I think it could just confuse them and also raise questions that the parents are'nt ready to answer yet.I mean maybe if there was a warning at the start so the parents could choose wether their kids watch or not then that would be ok but without knowing which shows this would be in then parents have no control over when their kids are exposed to it.
I think parents need to be in control of when they decide to educate their children on certain subjects and wether their kids are ready or not,Kids mature at different rates.Also when kids do sex education at school and learn about what men and women do to make babies it could raise questions about what men and men or women and women do and i don't think alot of parents or teachers would be
A.knowledgable enough
or
B.would want to have to try and explain it.

...well all teachers will have sex education training and go on courses first because the 'knowledge' is mainly how it's delivered for understanding as well..and explaining any type of sex education/whatever the sexuality..?..non would be any more difficult than another...

[Ammi]

...a gay couple I know have just adopted children/not babies but slightly older children ...they're parents are both male and yet, they won't see two male parents or same sex parents on their TV shows so that may make them feel 'different' ...and that shouldn't be the case.../anyways, yeah interesting and complicated...

[Firewire]

If I had grew up seeing gay people in TV shows it would certainly make life a lot easier. It shouldn't be taboo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Rainbow had Bungle and he was as gay as a blade


Its been around for years but most folks on here are too young to realise



and the fecking show was called RAINBOW

[LemonJam]

I really don't understand the "they may not want to expose their children to that" argument because:

1. The LGBT community aren't bloody lepers.
2. They're going to find out that some people are LGBT anyway, especially now considering the big leaps forward in visibility of LGBT people and issues over the last 5 years.
3. If you're going to hide the non-harmful realities of life from your children just because you don't agree with it or don't want to explain it to them then you're kind of a homophobe and not exactly showing signs of being a good parent.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

I really don't understand the "they may not want to expose their children to that" argument because:

1. The LGBT community aren't bloody lepers.
2. They're going to find out that some people are LGBT anyway, especially now considering the big leaps forward in visibility of LGBT people and issues over the last 5 years.
3. If you're going to hide the non-harmful realities of life from your children just because you don't agree with it or don't want to explain it to them then you're kind of a homophobe and not exactly showing signs of being a good parent.

True, just how sexualised is kids TV anyway, what gory questions could it possibly throw up?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

I really don't understand the "they may not want to expose their children to that" argument because:

1. The LGBT community aren't bloody lepers.
2. They're going to find out that some people are LGBT anyway, especially now considering the big leaps forward in visibility of LGBT people and issues over the last 5 years.
3. If you're going to hide the non-harmful realities of life from your children just because you don't agree with it or don't want to explain it to them then you're kind of a homophobe and not exactly showing signs of being a good parent.

There are some realities of life that parents like to ease their kids into and teach at a rate that they feel is beneficial to THEIR child.
All kids are different.Relationships can be complicated enough.I think letting parents choose themselves when and how to explain certain things based on their understanding of their own childs level of maturity is crucial.
For instance i have'nt explained homosexuality to my 3 going on 4 year old yet,Not because i'm a bad parent but because he's most certainly not ready,He does'nt even ask about straight relationships yet.For him it's not even an issue at the moment.However if he saw on telly say two princes kissing each other in a cartoon for instance then i would be put in a position where i'd have to try and explain it to him before i feel he could understand and is ready.
PS nobody is saying LGBT people are lepers.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

There are some realities of life that parents like to ease their kids into and teach at a rate that they feel is beneficial to THEIR child.
All kids are different.Relationships can be complicated enough.I think letting parents choose themselves when and how to explain certain things based on their understanding of their own childs level of maturity is crucial.
For instance i have'nt explained homosexuality to my 3 going on 4 year old yet,Not because i'm a bad parent but because he's most certainly not ready,He does'nt even ask about straight relationships yet.For him it's not even an issue at the moment.However if he saw on telly say two princes kissing each other in a cartoon for instance then i would be put in a position where i'd have to try and explain it to him before i feel he could understand and is ready.
PS nobody is saying LGBT people are lepers.

..I don't actually think that romantic kissing is shown on children's TV anyway, is it...but there would certainly never be any sexual content anyway..so if that question was asked..whether heterosexual or homosexual related, it would just surely be 'because they love each other/are married'..etc...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I don't actually think that romantic kissing is shown on children's TV anyway, is it...but there would certainly never be any sexual content anyway..so if that question was asked..whether heterosexual or homosexual related, it would just surely be 'because they love each other/are married'..etc...

My kids might see me and their mum kiss sometimes like before we go out or if one of us goes to bed etc and they just know that's what we do,I hate to say it but that's 'normal' for them.I mean things like a princess kissing a frog and it turning into a prince and they go get married.If that was a prince kissing a frog and it turning into a prince then i've got some explaining to do right there.I'm gonna start getting the 'why' questions(which never end.lol).I have no choice as to when i want to approach the subject because that choice has been removed from us.
I think these things do need to be explained but imo only when the parent feels that their child is mature enough to understand.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

My kids might see me and their mum kiss sometimes like before we go out or if one of us goes to bed etc and they just know that's what we do,I hate to say it but that's 'normal' for them.I mean things like a princess kissing a frog and it turning into a prince and they go get married.If that was a prince kissing a frog and it turning into a prince then i've got some explaining to do right there.I'm gonna start getting the 'why' questions(which never end.lol).I have no choice as to when i want to approach the subject because that choice has been removed from us.
I think these things do need to be explained but imo only when the parent feels that their child is mature enough to understand.

..absolutely, I do agree with 'age appropriate' which would also be personal for the child themselves, because they all are able to absorb things at different ages..the Disney thing is quite interesting as well because little girls want to be the princess, don't they..?..and little boys want to be the prince, well often they don't because of course they're superman or someone far more exciting but that's the message being sent to them...but what if the little girl felt strongly that she wanted to be the prince or vice versa with the boy/he wanted to be the princess...they should feel that's also an 'ideal' because Disney is 'family'..that's what it's all about 'families' when families come in all shapes and sizes/type thing...my children are a lot older now but if any such question arose..(until they were old enough to understand 'sex'..)..but for the kiss thing...the same answer would be because they love each other...

..anyways I'm having a cooking day so I'll catch the thread again another time...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

My kids might see me and their mum kiss sometimes like before we go out or if one of us goes to bed etc and they just know that's what we do,I hate to say it but that's 'normal' for them.I mean things like a princess kissing a frog and it turning into a prince and they go get married.If that was a prince kissing a frog and it turning into a prince then i've got some explaining to do right there.I'm gonna start getting the 'why' questions(which never end.lol).I have no choice as to when i want to approach the subject because that choice has been removed from us.
I think these things do need to be explained but imo only when the parent feels that their child is mature enough to understand.

..what I meant was, because I do waffle a bit is that in the context of a children's TV show or at a primary school which I mentioned earlier...all that would be portrayed as also a 'norm' because it is..is a gay couple, no kissing, no sex or anything because children's TV isn't something that shows that anyway but a gay teacher for instance should be able to introduce their partner in the same way as a heterosexual teacher can ...I mean, I talk about my OH to school children if it's something in a conversation but it's not like I ever say...'oh Mr Ammi...the guy I have SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS with regularly'...or who I kiss regularly...etc...

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Because in some places in the world, it's still illegal to be gay. In some places, you can still be stoned to death for who you are. These are places where children may have family members from... It's not as easy as just putting gay characters on TV shows, when there are kids out there who could get beaten up just for watching a show with gay characters. It happens, believe me.

Having said though, I still think we should put gay characters on TV. Not because I want kids to get beaten up obvs, but because we live in a place where it's legal for Gays to get married. They have every right as everyone else. It's 2015, I think if you move to this country, you should get over any issues that you have with stuff like this.

Well I don't think that in countries that homophobic that portraying queer characters are going to be the primary concern really. So I don't think the argument really applies to those nations?

Here however - a country where queer individuals enjoy many freedoms that countless others across the world don't - the hesitancy to include queer characters is baffling. People may be made fun of for watching such shows, but then again I was made fun of for watching Powderpuff Girls growing up so... ?

My point is that to combat homophobia you need to look at it from the top down as well as the ground up. Including positive queer role models in children's TV will do wonders for how the next generations view all identities on the queer spectrum. If we censor out a wedge of society, then how are children going to know anything about say, a trans person? What if they grow up and they feel they may be trans? They won't even know what that is, let alone how to come to terms with it.

It's a void that desperately needs filling, and like I said, people that like to argue themselves out of it don't seem like the most accepting bunch to me...

Originally Posted by Ammi

..also following on from what Caitlin has said Niall.../complicated also because for people working in any capacity in Children's TV...if the decision to have gay characters which they may be in total agreement with themselves etc...also meant a 'mass switch off' by parents..?..then that could be a loss of job and livelihood for them as well/so lots of perspectives to think about...?...

Tbh I think that a mass switch off would be easily combated by introducing queer characters across the board. I don't really think there'd be a complete mass switch off either, and even if there was It wouldn't last long. Homophobia/transphobia etc like that is fast becoming a thing of the past so yes, there may be backlash at first but it will wane quickly. I think we all know that.

[LemonJam]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

There are some realities of life that parents like to ease their kids into and teach at a rate that they feel is beneficial to THEIR child.
All kids are different.Relationships can be complicated enough.I think letting parents choose themselves when and how to explain certain things based on their understanding of their own childs level of maturity is crucial.
For instance i have'nt explained homosexuality to my 3 going on 4 year old yet,Not because i'm a bad parent but because he's most certainly not ready,He does'nt even ask about straight relationships yet.For him it's not even an issue at the moment.However if he saw on telly say two princes kissing each other in a cartoon for instance then i would be put in a position where i'd have to try and explain it to him before i feel he could understand and is ready.
PS nobody is saying LGBT people are lepers.

Yeah, that's totally understandable for that age range (don't worry I'm not calling you a bad parent for not explaining sexuality to a 3 year old sorry if it came off that way). I do think that there should be LGBT visibility in childrens shows for ages 7+ where they probably would be able to understand it more and there definitely should be more visibility needed approaching adolescence where young people may begin to realise their sexuality and won't feel so alone growing up.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LemonJam

Yeah, that's totally understandable for that age range (don't worry I'm not calling you a bad parent for not explaining sexuality to a 3 year old sorry if it came off that way). I do think that there should be LGBT visibility in childrens shows for ages 7+ where they probably would be able to understand it more and there definitely should be more visibility needed approaching adolescence where young people may begin to realise their sexuality and won't feel so alone growing up.

I agree.

[gamepodfan]

smtv had a gay person brian downing