[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Also you made a point in a previous post asking why transwomens protections are being removed for the safety of others, why is it OK for you to raise that as a point but when it's asked the other way round we're told women are going to be attacked anyway so what difference does it make to allow that safe guarding to be lowered

I raised it as a point because trans women are being made to take the responsibility for something they're not guilty of, so it's an unjust removal of rights and freedoms based on the actions of cis men.

I don't think I did say "what difference does it make to allow the safe guarding to be lowered", I said it won't make a difference to the safety of cis women because the people it's removing from the space aren't the perpetrators of what it is that is making women unsafe in those spaces.

If that's the comment you're referencing I don't see how one negates the other.

I think that's what you're referring to but I'll be honest I am tired now so I am not sure if I've misunderstood the comment you're referencing, feel free to quote the part you are questioning

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I raised it as a point because trans women are being made to take the responsibility for something they're not guilty of, so it's an unjust removal of rights and freedoms based on the actions of cis men.

I don't think I did say "what difference does it make to allow the safe guarding to be lowered", I said it won't make a difference to the safety of cis women because the people it's removing from the space aren't the perpetrators of what it is that is making women unsafe in those spaces.

If that's the comment you're referencing I don't see how one negates the other.

I think that's what you're referring to but I'll be honest I am tired now so I am not sure if I've misunderstood the comment you're referencing, feel free to quote the part you are questioning

Yes that's the comment I was refrencing.

I feel maybe we're going round in circles here because you're not accepting (I guess) that all biological men (this includes transwomen) are taking the responsibility for the "bad ones" and there is no way to know which ones aren't a danger to women and which are so they are all excluded.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes that's the comment I was refrencing.

I feel maybe we're going round in circles here because you're not accepting (I guess) that all biological men (this includes transwomen) are taking the responsibility for the "bad ones" and there is no way to know which ones aren't a danger to women and which are so they are all excluded.

Fair enough. You are correct, I refuse to accept trans women are the same as cis men. I refuse even moreso when the subject is surrounding safety towards women and one group is safe and one group is not so much, and yet it's the safe group that is being persecuted as a way to protect women further, while the less safe group get to continue to live as they have been.

Appreciate the debate as always.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Fair enough. You are correct, I refuse to accept trans women are the same as cis men. I refuse even moreso when the subject is surrounding safety towards women and one group is safe and one group is not so much, and yet it's the safe group that is being persecuted as a way to protect women further, while the less safe group get to continue to live as they have been.

Appreciate the debate as always.

Yes, same to you, it can been a difficult and emotive topic to discuss I know

[Cherie]

Personally I think if transwomen and women were left alone to debate this topic reasonably, it would get sorted, but there are too many activists and men ready to shout TERF to drown out any debate that it just goes around in circles, as a woman I don't want to see any transwoman disadvantaged in any way, but I also equally do not want women disadvantaged and the evidence is clear, women have lost their jobs, their places on podiums, their scholarships, their safe spaces, their refuges ...I dont see any disadvantages on the other side??

[bots]

like with all political causes, there are bad actors involved that are hellbent on deliberately manipulating the system and therefore common norms for their own benefit. It's no accident that so many top companies took up the cause, they earned money from it.

It's pretty sad that it required the supreme court to make a ruling as law that simply follows scientific reality

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

with all due respect it isn't women's responsibility either to give up our safe guards to shield transwomen from predatory men.

Thank you

[user104658]

It's 100% the right decision in terms of safeguarding and in terms of legal clarity e.g. diversity and inclusion statistics - ultimately it had to be this way or there's total chaos.

That said, while I agree with the decision, I also these days have to acknowledge that it will be celebrated/agreed with "for the wrong reasons" by a large group of people, in a more pointed and agenda-driven manner, as a "victory against woke" that has nothing to do with the actual issue. That will come mainly from people who don't give a **** about safeguarding and to be frank who are often the LAST people I'd have around women and children, rather than the vast majority of trans people. For that reason I'm wary of not acknowledging the double-edged sword. Again though legally it is 100% the right decision and (hopefully) can be the start of some more sensible/reasonable legislation that protects everyone.

[arista]

Scottish Greens
not happy with this rule.

Live on SkyNewsHD Politics show

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by arista

Scottish Greens
not happy with this rule.

Live on SkyNewsHD Politics show

These nasty misguided activists no one cares for or listens too

Thankfully

[arista]

[arista]

[Ray.]

Wonder if those sorts who pathologically follow the letter of the law will respect this ruling

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

On Ch4HDnews
last night the ending of a the show had

Activist Charlie Craggs
said "all this War against a tiny community,
we just want to be left alone."


This is Charlie Craggs, 33
Large image

Spoiler:

It is Simple Charlie
Respect the new law of this nation.

[Ray.]

You're not really wanting to be left alone when you're constantly advocating for laws that compel speech and force your presence on people who don't necessarily want you in their changing rooms tbf.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Ray.

You're not really wanting to be left alone when you're constantly advocating for laws that compel speech and force your presence on people who don't necessarily want you in their changing rooms tbf.

Otherwise read as: "You're not really wanting to be left alone if you want to exist alongside others"

It's one thing being concerned that having trans women in cis women's spaces is opening up an opportunity for cis men to take advantage of at the detriment of women - an understandable worry (but one ultimately I believe is not the responsibility of trans women, as I have expressed already)

It's another to just not want trans people in your space "just because" and because you find it difficult to remember how to refer to someone the way they wish to be referred to...despite doing it daily with the concept of a first name.

All the same stuff has been said about people of colour and homosexuals in the past. Same rhetoric, different ****.

Moreover, for those advocating this a win for science and biology, then it has to, somewhere along the lines for the sake of consistency and, well.. science... be written into law that a trans man is actually a women. Right? In which case, nobody advocating for this can complain when a testosterone-fuelled bearded trans man starts using the women's toilets. It's literally what they want.

[arista]

Ella Morgan
a Trans, is still going to go into a Ladies Bog.


She spoke on GMBHD itv 7:15AM.

MP's would not deal with this
look at the state Starmer got into on LBC
a year back or so.


Legally Ella is a Man.
she admits it

[arista]

A press ladies Mug

[arista]

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by arista

Not Poetry.

It's too intelligent for me.