[arista]

[MTVN]

The DUP thought the WA was hanging Northern Ireland out to dry so it's not a simple issue

I'm starting to think it will come back to the Commons anyway as Boris' last hope to avoid requesting an extension. Either that or he calls a vote of no confidence in himself

[arista]

Originally Posted by MTVN

The DUP thought the WA was hanging Northern Ireland out to dry so it's not a simple issue

I'm starting to think it will come back to the Commons anyway as Boris' last hope to avoid requesting an extension. Either that or he calls a vote of no confidence in himself

Yes one of his many plans.

But he said yesterday
on the Long Scottish TV Interview
he will bypass the new Labour Extension
by going to Brussels himself
to get a new deal and still leave on
the 31st.



I hope he takes Cummings with him.

[lime]

Originally Posted by MTVN

The DUP thought the WA was hanging Northern Ireland out to dry so it's not a simple issue

I'm starting to think it will come back to the Commons anyway as Boris' last hope to avoid requesting an extension. Either that or he calls a vote of no confidence in himself

Sorry .The DUP do not represnet NI.The moment May got into bed with them was her downfall.A simple issue should be that NI voted to remain and for once in my life I say fair play to SF who lets face it will never sit in HOC...now they will not run against GP/SDLP or alliance ..so they can try prevent No deal.The DUP are turning on their selves .It is worth remebering that the DUP refused to sign up to GFA.They have no interest in peace...They would rather their folk eat grass than acknoledge some in NI are Irish

[joeysteele]

Actually Labour voted against the withdrawal agreement because they want a, or the, customs union and still closer links to the single market.

That has always been their position and still is.

If the withdrawal agreement, had that in it, there'd be no need for the backstop.

Just to put the record straight on that.

When May finally got round to including Labour in talks near the end of her premiership.
Had she included a customs union plan in the agreement, she'd have got at least 190 likely Labour votes supporting it.
No general election at all.

She wasn't though allowed to bring back the results of those talks as her Party kicked her out before she could.

Then again those ERG grouping would have tried to vote it down, with any customs arrangement proposal in it.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Actually Labour voted against the withdrawal agreement because they want a, or the, customs union and still closer links to the single market.

That has always been their position and still is.

If the withdrawal agreement, had that in it, there'd be no need for the backstop.

Just to put the record straight on that.

When May finally got round to including Labour in talks near the end of her premiership.
Had she included a customs union plan in the agreement, she'd have got at least 190 likely Labour votes supporting it.
No general election at all.

She wasn't though allowed to bring back the results of those talks as her Party kicked her out before she could.

Then again those ERG grouping would have tried to vote it down, with any customs arrangement proposal in it.

Well said Joey.
The slim ref majority should only result in a soft brexit.
Had May been a stateswoman she would have formed a coalition with labour to sort brexit and a soft brexit would have sailed through the parliament.
As it happened she wasted 3 years on tory brexit which was voted down by some of her own MPs
Pathetic partisanship

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Well said Joey.
The slim ref majority should only result in a soft brexit.
Had May been a stateswoman she would have formed a coalition with labour to sort brexit and a soft brexit would have sailed through the parliament.
As it happened she wasted 3 years on tory brexit which was voted down by some of her own MPs
Pathetic partisanship

I've always said and felt brexit should have been an all party negotiated and planned process.
Thereby ensuring success.

With all voting on brexit being free votes in Parliament.

Mrs May and the Cons denied all that, which brings us to the mess in existence now on it.

[James]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Actually Labour voted against the withdrawal agreement because they want a, or the, customs union and still closer links to the single market.

That has always been their position and still is.

If the withdrawal agreement, had that in it, there'd be no need for the backstop.

Just to put the record straight on that.

When May finally got round to including Labour in talks near the end of her premiership.
Had she included a customs union plan in the agreement, she'd have got at least 190 likely Labour votes supporting it.
No general election at all.

She wasn't though allowed to bring back the results of those talks as her Party kicked her out before she could.

Then again those ERG grouping would have tried to vote it down, with any customs arrangement proposal in it.

The third time the Withdrawal agreement was voted on in parliament, the political declaration was removed, leaving the two-year transition.

That means that Labour could still have got a Customs Union and single market ties at a later date. They should have at least voted for the Withdrawal agreement on the third meaningful vote.

[lime]

Originally Posted by James

The third time the Withdrawal agreement was voted on in parliament, the political declaration was removed, leaving the two-year transition.

That means that Labour could still have got a Customs Union and single market ties at a later date. They should have at least voted for the Withdrawal agreement on the third meaningful vote.

[arista]

Originally Posted by James

The third time the Withdrawal agreement was voted on in parliament, the political declaration was removed, leaving the two-year transition.

That means that Labour could still have got a Customs Union and single market ties at a later date. They should have at least voted for the Withdrawal agreement on the third meaningful vote.

Crazy
No Point in leaving with that plan

[lime]

Originally Posted by arista

Crazy
No Point in leaving with that plan

Crazy leaving without a plan

[arista]

Originally Posted by lime

Crazy leaving without a plan

Sure
you can say that.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by James

The third time the Withdrawal agreement was voted on in parliament, the political declaration was removed, leaving the two-year transition.

That means that Labour could still have got a Customs Union and single market ties at a later date. They should have at least voted for the Withdrawal agreement on the third meaningful vote.

Why.
They'd had no input to talks at that time.

The backdrop remained which was the contentious issue with the DUP.

You say Labour could have.
That's not would have.
An agreed customs arrangement in place at that time would have pulled more Labour votes over.
Not a possible customs arrangement.

If May had dropped her red lines of no customs union arrangement, total severance from having some close access of the single market.
She'd have won Labour votes.

Still alienating her own ERG group, who were voting against anything.

With her own Party and the votes of the DUP, she did have an overall majority at the time.

It isn't down to the opposition to help a government that thus far then, had not seriously consulted it.

[lime]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Why.
They'd had no input to talks at that time.

The backdrop remained which was the contentious issue with the DUP.

You say Labour could have.
That's not would have.
An agreed customs arrangement in place at that time would have pulled more Labour votes over.
Not a possible customs arrangement.

If May had dropped her red lines of no customs union arrangement, total severance from having some close access of the single market.
She'd have won Labour votes.

Still alienating her own ERG group, who were voting against anything.

With her own Party and the votes of the DUP, she did have an overall majority at the time.

It isn't down to the opposition to help a government that thus far then, had not seriously consulted it.

I understand when you you say that it isn't down to the opposition to help the goverment..

So you guys can carry on arguing against said opposition ..

Where does leave us Irish?You all fight for the sake of fighting .Shamefull.The WA was a great deal

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lime

I understand when you you say that it isn't down to the opposition to help the goverment..

So you guys can carry on arguing against said opposition ..

Where does leave us Irish?You all fight for the sake of fighting .Shamefull.The WA was a great deal

I don't disagree lime.

I've said the last twice Labour should have supported May's agreement.
I was disappointed they didn't.

It's for me, the best on the table st present if we have to leave.

My point was the government had the numbers to pass it, with only the Cons and DUP.
It shouldn't be down to expecting opposition Parties votes.

Yes however. I think Labour should have supported it.
It wasn't just Labour who didn't vote for it though.
SNP, Paid Cymru , Lib Dems. The Green and most Independents didn't too.

I agree with you, it is the best thing there now that could and should be tried again.

[Twosugars]

Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames has launched a searing attack on Boris Johnson’s leadership and Jacob Rees-Mogg, whom he called a “fraud”, adding the Conservative party is lurching towards a divisive, potentially catastrophic form of “hard-right” conservatism.

In an interview with the Times, Soames – who is the grandson of Sir Winston Churchill – said the Conservatives were starting to resemble a “Brexit sect”, after he had the whip removed for rebelling against the Johnson government along with 20 other MPs.

“I am worried about the Tory party because give or take the odd spasm we have always been seen as pragmatic, sensible, good at our job, sane, reasonable and having the interests of the whole country,” he said. “Now it is beginning to look like a Brexit sect.”

Soames rejected comparisons between his grandfather and Johnson, saying the prime minister has never been regarded as “a diplomat or statesman” and his life experience amounts to “telling a lot of porkies about the European Union in Brussels and then becoming prime minister”.

He singled out Jacob Rees-Mogg, calling his recent actions in the Commons “repulsive” and beneath the leader of the house. Rees-Mogg was criticised by Caroline Lucas for lounging on the benches of the Commons during a debate. “The leader of the house has been spread across three seats, lying out as if that was something very boring for him to listen to tonight,” she said.

Soames called Rees-Mogg an “absolute fraud” who is “a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice”.

He also spoke about his concerns for the future of his party, saying that he feared a schism, with many liberal Conservatives turning their backs on the “very hard-right Tory” version of the party that is taking shape under Johnson.

The former defence minister predicted that further Tory MPs would follow the lead of Jo Johnson, who quit this past week – citing conflict between family loyalty and the public interest – if they were forced to sign up to campaigning for a no-deal Brexit during any general election push.

He also expected hardcore no-deal Brexiters to turn on Johnson if he attempted to push through an agreement with the EU, by tweaking the withdrawal agreement. “It is a tragedy that we are going to be potentially sunk on the altar of something so fundamentally un-Tory,” he said.
The Guardian

[Beso]

Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames who Twosugars has suddenly perked up and began listening too.

[arista]

"Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames has launched
a searing attack on Boris Johnson’s leadership"


Sure but its not important
That old fella is standing down
at the next General Election.

[arista]

[arista]

[user104658]

Funny thought: if we crashed out with no deal and then quietly rejoined a full customs union two months later... I bet the vast majority of Brexit voters wouldn't even ****ing notice

You could ask them in 2 years time and they'd be like "Yassss we won we won no deal Brexit rule Britannia"

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Funny thought: if we crashed out with no deal and then quietly rejoined a full customs union two months later... I bet the vast majority of Brexit voters wouldn't even ****ing notice

You could ask them in 2 years time and they'd be like "Yassss we won we won no deal Brexit rule Britannia"

For most brexiters at this point, it's just about 'winning' and 'sticking it to the libs'.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

For most brexiters at this point, it's just about 'winning' and 'sticking it to the libs'.

Exactly, you could give them No Deal Brexit and they'd celebrate, then the next week be like "And now we have used our strong no deal position to secure wonderful trade agreement with the EU! It allows lower customs charges, and it'll be easier for you to go on holiday..." and they'd be pleased as punch.

[The Slim Reaper]

Brexiteers represented by the far right in London today. Again.

[Twosugars]

Lord MacDonald, the former director of public prosecutions, said if Johnson refused to request an extension he could be found in contempt of court.

“A refusal in the face of that would amount to contempt of court, which could find that person in prison,” MacDonald told Sky News. “He won’t get any co-operation, apart from the fanatics around him … the attorney general won’t sit there quietly while this happens.”

The Scottish Conservative MSP Adam Tomkins, a former law professor, said Johnson should resign rather than break the law by forcing through a no-deal Brexit.

In a series of tweets, Tomkins said Johnson had only one option if he refused to ask for an extension: resign. “Irrespective of what we think about Brexit, or the PM, surely we can all agree on one fundamental principle: the government is bound to obey the law,” he said.
The Guardian

Lock him up!