[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by housemate

Just for you ...... er no, now be good and go play with someone else or maybe have a nap.
also it might be cool to remember that sometimes the grown-ups want to debate issues rather than play silly games of 'I'll just say whatever will get a reaction'
Night night xx

Ha, ha - yes dear - who are you trying to kid me, or yourself!

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I'll meet you half-way - if you can produce some fresh 'evidence' - in fact any evidence at all - to back-up your allegations!

Conversely perhaps you could provide some evidence as to how he does make his money? Also evidence that he really does get drunk on god & evidence that he can cure cancer...

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by flamingGalah!

Conversely perhaps you could provide some evidence as to how he does make his money? Also evidence that he really does get drunk on god & evidence that he can cure cancer...

You are the ones vilifying him! In order to do that successfully - you need to prove your case!

Just shouting such allegations, with nothing to back them up other than a few old vids on public display, that at the very least are wide open to interpretation - doesn't cut it in the minds of the grown-ups, which explains the other guys retreat!

It isn't down to me! Good luck with that - I think you are going to need it!

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You are the ones vilifying him! In order to do that successfully - you need to prove your case!

Just shouting such allegations, with nothing to back them up other than a few old vids on public display, that at the very least are wide open to interpretation - doesn't cut it in the minds of the grown-ups, which explains the other guys retreat!

It isn't down to me! Good luck with that - I think you are going to need it!

And you are the one trying to defend him to the death with evidence to back up your claims either! And any evidence we produce you simply shut your eyes & stick your fingers in your ears... You are a lost cause...

And please don't take a condesending tone about "grown ups" as your behaviour is far from mature...

The evidence is there for all to see, at least those that want to see it...

[housemate]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

You are the ones vilifying him! In order to do that successfully - you need to prove your case!

Just shouting such allegations, with nothing to back them up other than a few old vids on public display, that at the very least are wide open to interpretation - doesn't cut it in the minds of the grown-ups, which explains the other guys retreat!

It isn't down to me! Good luck with that - I think you are going to need it!

Ha ha ha ha, thats great, now she's claiming to have amnesia ... been all through this but then when you haven't got an argument its easy to just say the same old tosh, cirling around and around untill she thinks she has 'won' ... good grief!!

[housemate]

Flaming Galah ... Wombat is tired, leave him alone ... he loves Dave and all he stamds for .. thats a good thing for people like him. Just hope he isn't ever on the receiving end of it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by housemate

Flaming Galah ... Wombat is tired, leave him alone ... he loves Dave and all he stamds for .. thats a good thing for people like him. Just hope he isn't ever on the receiving end of it.

Wombai is a lady


and she wants it

[housemate]

Lol excuse me, I took a 50/50 on it

[fingers]

The trouble with St. Dave is that he posts the majority of his laughable vids on YouTube HIMSELF - for his cult followers and as recruiting ads for new followers, his "Glory" Groupies just deny the evidence of their own eyes or pretend that the vids don't exist except as figments of over taxed imaginations!!!

"Glory" Groupies will deny anything that annoys them!

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by fingers

The trouble with St. Dave is that he posts the majority of his laughable vids on YouTube HIMSELF - for his cult followers and as recruiting ads for new followers, his "Glory" Groupies just deny the evidence of their own eyes or pretend that the vids don't exist except as figments of over taxed imaginations!!!

"Glory" Groupies will deny anything that annoys them!

This doesn't make sense unless I understand you mean to say 'glory groupies' are someone different from 'cult followers'?

Far from denying these videos they most certainly do post them on youtube.
Exactly.
I want you to think about that now. They post these proudly.

Do 'scam artists' trying to hide something do that?
Would a 'con-man' intending to 'act' one way but not tell anyone this other stuff be leaving his youtube channel active and full of vids?

What you are doing is giving more evidence that David does definitely believe in this stuff and he believes its real and what he is doing 'works'.

Your making that case when you admit that they don't hide any of this and even proudly display it.

And let me say it again - I wish they WERE ACTORS. That would be bad but not nearly as bad as a bunch of them who actually believe this is from God and carry on accordingly.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

This doesn't make sense unless I understand you mean to say 'glory groupies' are someone different from 'cult followers'?

Far from denying these videos they most certainly do post them on youtube.
Exactly.
I want you to think about that now. They post these proudly.

Do 'scam artists' trying to hide something do that?
Would a 'con-man' intending to 'act' one way but not tell anyone this other stuff be leaving his youtube channel active and full of vids?

What you are doing is giving more evidence that David does definitely believe in this stuff and he believes its real and what he is doing 'works'.

Your making that case when you admit that they don't hide any of this and even proudly display it.

And let me say it again - I wish they WERE ACTORS. That would be bad but not nearly as bad as a bunch of them who actually believe this is from God and carry on accordingly.

If you say so!

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

This doesn't make sense unless I understand you mean to say 'glory groupies' are someone different from 'cult followers'?

Far from denying these videos they most certainly do post them on youtube.
Exactly.
I want you to think about that now. They post these proudly.

Do 'scam artists' trying to hide something do that?
Would a 'con-man' intending to 'act' one way but not tell anyone this other stuff be leaving his youtube channel active and full of vids?

What you are doing is giving more evidence that David does definitely believe in this stuff and he believes its real and what he is doing 'works'.

Your making that case when you admit that they don't hide any of this and even proudly display it.

And let me say it again - I wish they WERE ACTORS. That would be bad but not nearly as bad as a bunch of them who actually believe this is from God and carry on accordingly.

Waste of time El Proximo, logical rational thought will never overcome blind hatred and blinkered vision. Good post though.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

This doesn't make sense unless I understand you mean to say 'glory groupies' are someone different from 'cult followers'?

Far from denying these videos they most certainly do post them on youtube.
Exactly.
I want you to think about that now. They post these proudly.

Do 'scam artists' trying to hide something do that?
Would a 'con-man' intending to 'act' one way but not tell anyone this other stuff be leaving his youtube channel active and full of vids?

What you are doing is giving more evidence that David does definitely believe in this stuff and he believes its real and what he is doing 'works'.

Your making that case when you admit that they don't hide any of this and even proudly display it.

And let me say it again - I wish they WERE ACTORS. That would be bad but not nearly as bad as a bunch of them who actually believe this is from God and carry on accordingly.

Yes they do because they live in a Country where tolerance is upheld. dave supporters, like some of those in this thread, afford them the 'gumtion' to advertise themselves on You Tube and make claims which your ordinary Joe Public will tut at or believe.. Lets face it, after the Blair/Iraq saga do you really think integrity still prevails?
I don't claim to know if Dave believes his nonsense but if he does, how is it that he breaks so many of the principles laid down by the very Book he preaches from? I don't think a Man with his supposed strength of Faith could bring himself to do those things. On that basis, in my opinion, he is a complete fraud!

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by housemate

Yes they do because they live in a Country where tolerance is upheld. dave supporters, like some of those in this thread, afford them the 'gumtion' to advertise themselves on You Tube and make claims which your ordinary Joe Public will tut at or believe.. Lets face it, after the Blair/Iraq saga do you really think integrity still prevails?
I don't claim to know if Dave believes his nonsense but if he does, how is it that he breaks so many of the principles laid down by the very Book he preaches from? I don't think a Man with his supposed strength of Faith could bring himself to do those things. On that basis, in my opinion, he is a complete fraud!

I think its christianity in general you have problems understanding. Apparently Jesus wants us to try to be better people, he knows just like his dad knows that we are only human and will not always be good people.

However he forgives us those little transgressions, so long as we are sorry for them and try a little harder each time not to do them again.

Its not about being perfect, its about learning from your mistakes, once you realise the mistake in the first place, that is.

As for the bible itself, a lot of the Old Testament is left in to provide a basis for understanding the NT. Different schools of theologians interpret passages in different ways. Some even move with the times and accept a lot of the creation story as metaphorical as opposed to literal.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by Shasown

I think its christianity in general you have problems understanding. Apparently Jesus wants us to try to be better people, he knows just like his dad knows that we are only human and will not always be good people.

However he forgives us those little transgressions, so long as we are sorry for them and try a little harder each time not to do them again.

Its not about being perfect, its about learning from your mistakes, once you realise the mistake in the first place, that is.

As for the bible itself, a lot of the Old Testament is left in to provide a basis for understanding the NT. Different schools of theologians interpret passages in different ways. Some even move with the times and accept a lot of the creation story as metaphorical as opposed to literal.

I'm fully aware of that but we're not talking about a member of the congregation here, we're talking about a man who has been charged with the care and guidance of other, supposedly more fallible creatures like myself.
Are you saying that we should overlook the evidence on you tube or BB because Dave believes in his version of the Bible, he should not be judged by its founding rules?
He is supposed to set a good example as a Minister surely?

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by housemate

how is it that he breaks so many of the principles laid down by the very Book he preaches from? I don't think a Man with his supposed strength of Faith could bring himself to do those things. On that basis, in my opinion, he is a complete fraud!

You partly answer your own question there. It is because they break principles laid down in the very book they preach from that they can bring themselves to do those things.
It is because they find ways to misinterpret and just ignore some principles they feel free to carry on like this.

But look at it this way... 99.999% of Christians and non-Christians alike can look at the NT and be well aware that committing mass murder and then mass suicide is clearly antichristian,
yet,
almost 1000 people in a Jim Jones cult did that like it was the most sincerely committed truth they could find.
They were not being 'hypocrites'.
They were not 'con artists'.
They were not 'frauds'.
They were wrong. Deadly wrong. We might call it pure evil,
but,
they were not 'fakes'. They bet their life and the lives of those around them on it.

Let's hope David's cult doesn't go to the grape juice cocktails but the point is that they are wrong and even obviously wrong (to thinking people) but they are no frauds.
They believe it.

[housemate]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

You partly answer your own question there. It is because they break principles laid down in the very book they preach from that they can bring themselves to do those things.
It is because they find ways to misinterpret and just ignore some principles they feel free to carry on like this.

But look at it this way... 99.999% of Christians and non-Christians alike can look at the NT and be well aware that committing mass murder and then mass suicide is clearly antichristian,
yet,
almost 1000 people in a Jim Jones cult did that like it was the most sincerely committed truth they could find.
They were not being 'hypocrites'.
They were not 'con artists'.
They were not 'frauds'.
They were wrong. Deadly wrong. We might call it pure evil,
but,
they were not 'fakes'. They bet their life and the lives of those around them on it.

Let's hope David's cult doesn't go to the grape juice cocktails but the point is that they are wrong and even obviously wrong (to thinking people) but they are no frauds.
They believe it.

I'm going to have a good long think about that so Thank you!! I have to say that I don't imagine the followers of these cults etc to be cynical or disingenuous, but when you look at the leaders (and henchmen).. Jones being a prime example, a true believer .. really? I don't think he was, I saw him as a charlatan, pretty much the same as Dave.

[housemate]

You know it would be great to have someone just explain how this guy manages to win them over in the face of what they have seen and heard. I haven't got a problem with them loving him, I have a problem with them trying to justify his actions. They all seem to live in an enclosed World where a nice smile beats any evidence. Unlike Dave, I'm not tryin to preach to anyone!
I'd really love to have a rational, non defensive discussion based on all that has been seen of dave on BB and Youtube. Even better would be if someone could show me that I have misunderstood Daves Organisation and explain how they benefit the poor, sick and lonely.

[MariaLeFrink2]

Originally Posted by housemate

Sorry to all those that have aready seen this but I hadn't, caught it on DS earlier today and am still sick to my stomach!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBkgd...eature=related

It's disgusting, isn't it?

WE NEED TO GET HIM OUT!!

[fingers]

A prime example of what "Believing" can do to your mind, sad innit?

Youtube video

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by fingers

A prime example of what "Believing" can do to your mind, sad innit?

Youtube video

What the hell has that got to do with Dave and his group!

Attempting to tar all Christians with the same brush is hardly very productive!