[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Well thank you for the effort, but after reading your comment about aisleyne looking like she is out looking for a punter because she has made an effort in her choice of attire on a night out, your opinion has become somewhat irrelevent to me because its as outdated and as prejudiced as you believe and hold so dear to your heart that winstons are.

I came to exactly the same conclusion about you a few days ago for many reasons hun so no hard feelings x

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't get to decide what I post, in fact, you don't get to edit what anyone on here says or decide how often a point is made. It's a forum. You have to expect people to say what they feel whether or not anyone's already said it. I don't see you trying to censor people saying positive things about your favourites so please don't try to censor me.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry, I should have made myself crystal clear:

I am aware of those few passages which you cite, and familiar with the highly contentious translations of the words "Malakoi" and "Arsenokoitai", and also the fact that the word 'Sodomy' - which has become a byword for anal intercourse and the 'foundation' upon which so many Biblical Text interpreters wrongly base their interpretations upon – has NO connotations with homosexuals or homosexuality itself, because NOWHERE in Genesis 19 is anal intercourse mentioned let alone 'homosexuality.

So, just HOW the word Sodomy came to be accepted as a definition of anal intercourse is one mystery , but just how it came to be almost exclusively an 'homosexual' act in most people's mind, is a far greater one – don't heterosexuals widely practice anal intercourse?

As it is, the few passages in the New Testament which purport to denounce 'homosexuality' are highly questionable, and what I meant to say, and should have said, is that nowhere in the New Testament does GOD in the form of Jesus The Christ, mention Homosexuality.

The later Paulean letters and sermons are the words of MAN and NOT the words of GOD – neither the Father or Son.

Therefore, if Paul or Timothy – or any New Testament writer – is writing anything other than the direct teachings and words of Jesus Christ, then the sentiments expressed in such writings are THEIRS and NOT Christ's, and as such I discount them as I see fit.

Paul and other writers may have been 'Christians' but they are NOT Christ, and – to me therefore, as a non-orthodox Christian - their anti-homosexual opinions are not infallible and are about as valid as my pro-homosexual opinion.

If therefore, the Christian Church teaches anti-homosexual or 'homophobic' views, then they should make it clear that what they are basing their teachings on are the words of MAN and NOT GOD.

If Winston has been brainwashed, then it is by the perverse minds of other men, not the infallible words of God.

Isnt the entire human race the embodiment of god though, blah de lbah load of hocus pocus bollox.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I came to exactly the same conclusion about you a few days ago for many reasons hun so no hard feelings x

At least im not making a hypocritical arse of myself though x much love and respect.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by sampvt

This is so so sad. Other forums have let Winston go but this one still rambles on arguing for gay rights, homophobic issue, biblical references to homosexuality, children is gay marriages....etc etc.....its all so bloody boring and completely draining. Ive gone back to as many posts as I could and counted the most verbal FM's that continually speak out against these sensitive views and I didn't get over 50. Can anyone tell me what 50 represents in terms of a percentage of the forums membership.

Now that's done, we can clearly see that a very small portion of anti gay issues are disproportionally represented, yet the forum is governed by these posters. I applaud free speech and right, but is TIBB not taking this whole debacle to extremes that puts people off discussing other issues.

There is way to many cat fights in here and not enough serious debate. Plus the number of posts that are all about the same thing is just crazy. Can anyone find me one post about the antics of the eventual winner Darren Day, because at the moment he is running away with it and on the tv he seems to be involved in a fair amount of debates, yet nothing on here about him. This forum seems to be getting bogged down with homophobic and PC issues when there is a whole show to talk about.

Come on guys, lighten up and lets get back to basics and let the bad guy drift into oblivion, he simply isn't worth our breath and the more we talk about him, the more relevant he becomes.

The CBB producers brought Winston's own homophobic and offensive remarks into the public arena - and especially this forum - when they deliberately incorporated them into a task.

This forum has a lot of 'gay' members - not disproportionately so, though it may appear that way simply because those gay members are more pro-active than a lot of non-gay members - and if they have quite rightly taken offense at Winston's remarks once they were out in the open, then it is totally natural that this forum is THE place where such offended members will vent and voice their reactions.

I see nothing wrong in that.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Isnt the entire human race the embodiment of god though, blah de lbah load of hocus pocus bollox.

Now YOU are being needlessly offensive. But that's fine by me, if vitriol and insult and offensiveness is what you want, I will return it to you in spades. just let me know.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by sampvt

This is so so sad. Other forums have let Winston go but this one still rambles on arguing for gay rights, homophobic issue, biblical references to homosexuality, children is gay marriages....etc etc.....its all so bloody boring and completely draining. Ive gone back to as many posts as I could and counted the most verbal FM's that continually speak out against these sensitive views and I didn't get over 50. Can anyone tell me what 50 represents in terms of a percentage of the forums membership.

Now that's done, we can clearly see that a very small portion of anti gay issues are disproportionally represented, yet the forum is governed by these posters. I applaud free speech and right, but is TIBB not taking this whole debacle to extremes that puts people off discussing other issues.

There is way to many cat fights in here and not enough serious debate. Plus the number of posts that are all about the same thing is just crazy. Can anyone find me one post about the antics of the eventual winner Darren Day, because at the moment he is running away with it and on the tv he seems to be involved in a fair amount of debates, yet nothing on here about him. This forum seems to be getting bogged down with homophobic and PC issues when there is a whole show to talk about.

Come on guys, lighten up and lets get back to basics and let the bad guy drift into oblivion, he simply isn't worth our breath and the more we talk about him, the more relevant he becomes.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...924&highlight=

As popular as ever

[Beso]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Now YOU are being needlessly offensive. But that's fine by me, if vitriol and insult and offensiveness is what you want, I will return it to you in spades. just let me know.

Is it offensive to be aithiest these days? Blimey.

Anyway im just quoting a gay clergyman i watched on a debate show i watched this morning about the church and the lgbtqia+ community.

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by parmnion

At least im not making a hypocritical arse of myself though x much love and respect.

Yes you are but you're too deluded to see it haha

[Kizzy]

Why is the worldwide Christian Anglican church so split on gay marriage then right now? If there was no direct link to the word of god then how as theologians are they able to justify denouncing the union.
Is it specifically marriage and not homosexuality that is forbidden? That may be where the confusion has arisen.

His condemnation was directly linked to his faith, nothing to do with any fears for the children, we know that as he stated it directly to Emma.
All I see with the deprivation of male and female influences angle is people wishing to project their own prejudices into the discussion.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Yes you are but you're too deluded to see it haha

Ok, but I'll need an example to take the accusation seriously..and dont use the one in the other thread cause that was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why is the worldwide Christian Anglican church so split on gay marriage then right now? If there was no direct link to the word of god then how as theologians are they able to justify denouncing the union.
Is it specifically marriage and not homosexuality that is forbidden? That may be where the confusion has arisen.

His condemnation was directly linked to his faith, nothing to do with any fears for the children, we know that as he stated it directly to Emma.
All I see with the deprivation of male and female influences angle is people wishing to project their own prejudices into the discussion.

If Christ did NOT mention 'homosexuality' in the New Testament - which he DID NOT, then God has NO views either on 'Gay' relationships or 'Gay' Marriage , and God is not judgemental on either.

So that means that - as already stated - it is MAN in the form of the 'Church' who are split on THEIR views and not on the word of GOD.

"His condemnation" was NOT "directly linked to his faith" - it was the result of being brainwashed by the toxic preachings of a prejudiced homophobic Church minister.

Faith in a Christian God ie; Christ, does not render one homophobic because homosexuality was NEVER mentioned by that God.

[Tarryn]

I consider myself Christian yet have never been told or feel that being gay/bisexual is wrong.
I would never treat anyone differently based on their sexuality.
Just because I'm straight does not mean I can't understand that others have different feelings to me & this was Winston's problem. A lack of respect.
What I do feel though is that the HM's should have just sat there a let him have his say without interrupting or laughing at him. Then at least tried to challenge him on his beliefs.
He should never been allowed to go in to the house & I think that's why BB wanted him out very quickly when they realised just how much offence he could cause.
He should be allowed his opinion no matter how much we disagree with it.
If we keep shutting people with homophobic views down we will never change their views.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Tarryn

I consider myself Christian yet have never been told or feel that being gay/bisexual is wrong.
I would never treat anyone differently based on their sexuality.
Just because I'm straight does not mean I can't understand that others have different feelings to me & this was Winston's problem. A lack of respect.
What I do feel though is that the HM's should have just sat there a let him have his say without interrupting or laughing at him. Then at least tried to challenge him on his beliefs.
He should never been allowed to go in to the house & I think that's why BB wanted him out very quickly when they realised just how much offence he could cause.
He should be allowed his opinion no matter how much we disagree with it.
If we keep shutting people with homophobic views down we will never change their views.

Good post Tarryn

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

If Christ did NOT mention 'homosexuality' in the New Testament - which he DID NOT, then God has NO views either on 'Gay' relationships or 'Gay' Marriage , and God is not judgemental on either.

So that means that - as already stated - it is MAN in the form of the 'Church' who are split on THEIR views and not on the word of GOD.

"His condemnation" was NOT "directly linked to his faith" - it was the result of being brainwashed by the toxic preachings of a prejudiced homophobic Church minister.

Faith in a Christian God ie; Christ, does not render one homophobic because homosexuality was NEVER mentioned by that God.

He linked it directly, he stated ' I am a Christian' which is the goto response for many.
Here is some information as to why there is a split, which explains it better than I could.
http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...lity/76082.htm

[Tom4784]

The reaction is justified. He's a homophobic disablist creeper that blames everyone else for his own actions and hasn't taken responsibility for anything he has said. When he had the chance to clear the air he just went on a ridiculously self indulgent speech trying to justify his hate.

An awful human being through and through.

[sampvt]

The bible promotes the sancity of marriage between a man and a woman. Im guessing that anything outside that alliance isn't regarded as correct, hence the twisted views of many clergy and church ministers. On side will argue its wrong, the other will argue its not that clear so because its not that clear, it cant be right and even though its not that wrong, it suits our agenda so away we go, Bull****, Religion is the cause of nearly all wars and killings so why let a good point get in the way of an argument.

Love is all that matters and a bit f paper or a church indoctrination is totally irrelevant. What I don't understand is why so many gays discount the church as archaic, yet fight for the right to be married in one. Religion is not the law and too many people let religion rule their lives. Bloody daft if you ask me as some people use religion as a way to explain away their own inadequacies and others discount it as BS.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Tarryn

I consider myself Christian yet have never been told or feel that being gay/bisexual is wrong.
I would never treat anyone differently based on their sexuality.
Just because I'm straight does not mean I can't understand that others have different feelings to me & this was Winston's problem. A lack of respect.
What I do feel though is that the HM's should have just sat there a let him have his say without interrupting or laughing at him. Then at least tried to challenge him on his beliefs.
He should never been allowed to go in to the house & I think that's why BB wanted him out very quickly when they realised just how much offence he could cause.
He should be allowed his opinion no matter how much we disagree with it.
If we keep shutting people with homophobic views down we will never change their views.

His view was heard... He was asked why he felt that way and his response was 'I am a Christian', not even the Anglican church can agree if it is prohibited in the eyes of god or not so it's a perfect get out clause to use to mask bigotry.

[Tarryn]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

His view was heard... He was asked why he felt that way and his response was 'I am a Christian', not even the Anglican church can agree if it is prohibited in the eyes of god or not so it's a perfect get out clause to use to mask bigotry.

Most walked out before he finished. I think I would have stayed until the end & then challenged him.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by sampvt

The bible promotes the sancity of marriage between a man and a woman. Im guessing that anything outside that alliance isn't regarded as correct, hence the twisted views of many clergy and church ministers. On side will argue its wrong, the other will argue its not that clear so because its not that clear, it cant be right and even though its not that wrong, it suits our agenda so away we go, Bull****, Religion is the cause of nearly all wars and killings so why let a good point get in the way of an argument.

Love is all that matters and a bit f paper or a church indoctrination is totally irrelevant. What I don't understand is why so many gays discount the church as archaic, yet fight for the right to be married in one. Religion is not the law and too many people let religion rule their lives. Bloody daft if you ask me as some people use religion as a way to explain away their own inadequacies and others discount it as BS.

I agree with you Sam to a point, many wish to be married in the eyes of god, though the ideals foisted on the church personally I don't think have anything to do with spiritual aherance and more to do with social control.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Tarryn

Most walked out before he finished. I think I would have stayed until the end & then challenged him.

No they didn't, he stated it during the task and reiterated it for Emma.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

He linked it directly, he stated ' I am a Christian' which is the goto response for many.
Here is some information as to why there is a split, which explains it better than I could.
http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...lity/76082.htm

My position is clear;

A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus was The Christ.

If Jesus never even mentioned homosexuality, then how can anyone who purports to believe in Christ's words as those of God, EVER preach that their Christian God condemned 'Gays', 'Gay Sex' 'Gay Marriage' or anything else 'Gay' when it SIMPLY is not true?

What follows from the above, is that if Winston is GENUINELY using his 'Christianity' as a reason for his inane homophobic remarks, then he is MISGUIDED, and whoever preached their homophobic views to him in the Church which Winston attended, is also misguided or is deliberately misrepresenting the word of the Christian God.

The above being so, when Winston says; "I am a Christian" as some form of mitigation or even justification for his ludicrous views, it is MEANINGLESS.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No they didn't, he stated it during the task and reiterated it for Emma.

I think Tarryn is correctly referring to Winston's speech.

[Tarryn]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No they didn't, he stated it during the task and reiterated it for Emma.

He was still talking when everybody got up & left only Darren & Gemma stayed & tried to ask him about his views.
At least they tried.

[Tom4784]

Like most bigots, he was just using religion as an excuse to justify his bigotry.