[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I see no haterz LT,just people with different opinions,it's good to talk

thinking that you have cracked a case that Scotland Yard have forensically examined over many years based on some youtube videos and facebook gossip is not a different opinion


Its borderline hysteria based on a dislike of a person

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

thinking that you have cracked a case that Scotland Yard have forensically examined over many years based on some youtube videos and facebook gossip is not a different opinion


Its borderline hysteria based on a dislike of a person

I never said I had cracked the case,I don't know what happened to madeleine,I just suspect she was NOT abducted, and something is not right with this case.

[Jamie89]

It's a strange article, because it makes it sound as though it's an established award, but searching for 'The Stephen Wynard Award' doesn't return any results about the award itself, or past winners etc. And searching for Stephen Wynard (or Wynyard as someone else said it was spelt) doesn't return anything either, you'd think he'd be a notable person to have an award named after him So it does seem as though it's just been invented. And it doesn't look like any one other than The Sun have reported it either. It's very odd. The award itself though, although named after Stephen Wynard, doesn't seem to have been given by him. It's been awarded by 'Missing People', which is a genuine charity.

Or is it? I just read some really interesting information about them so here's something for the conspiracy theorists...

The Charity 'Missing People' who have given Kate McCann her award, were facing closure in 2006 (under their previous name 'National Missing Persons Helpline'). They brought in new management and a new board of trustees to start a process of 'strategic planning'.
In May 2007 Madeleine McCann disappeared, and a huge amount of media attention was given to her. A few days after her disappearance, the 'National Missing Persons Helpline' relaunched as 'Missing Persons'. They launched a massive appeal for Maddie on 26th May, which is also 'International Missing Childrens Day'. This brought them considerable attention (and donations) and they don't seem to have struggled financially since.

So is it possible that the whole thing was one massive corporate conspiracy? It couldn't have worked out better for 'Missing Persons'. If someone was going to plan something like this, they would know that a little white girl whose family have a good social standing would bring the most media attention. And they relaunched their 'brand' off the back of that media attention. The timing could not have been more perfect for them (especially given that 'International Missing Childrens Day' came right after their relaunch and Maddie's disappearance, ensuring maximum publicity and exposure for their appeal).

I'm not saying I believe any of this by the way, as I said in the other thread about the McCanns, I'm an evidence person. But I thought I'd throw this in to the mix anyway, since I found the info quite interesting (and even if there's nothing sinister behind any of it, it certainly shows how important the McCanns have been to the charity). But as far as conspiracy's go I think it's quite a good one

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's a strange article, because it makes it sound as though it's an established award, but searching for 'The Stephen Wynard Award' doesn't return any results about the award itself, or past winners etc. And searching for Stephen Wynard (or Wynyard as someone else said it was spelt) doesn't return anything either, you'd think he'd be a notable person to have an award named after him So it does seem as though it's just been invented. And it doesn't look like any one other than The Sun have reported it either. It's very odd. The award itself though, although named after Stephen Wynard, doesn't seem to have been given by him. It's been awarded by 'Missing People', which is a genuine charity.

Or is it? I just read some really interesting information about them so here's something for the conspiracy theorists...

The Charity 'Missing People' who have given Kate McCann her award, were facing closure in 2006 (under their previous name 'National Missing Persons Helpline'). They brought in new management and a new board of trustees to start a process of 'strategic planning'.
In May 2007 Madeleine McCann disappeared, and a huge amount of media attention was given to her. A few days after her disappearance, the 'National Missing Persons Helpline' relaunched as 'Missing Persons'. They launched a massive appeal for Maddie on 26th May, which is also 'International Missing Childrens Day'. This brought them considerable attention (and donations) and they don't seem to have struggled financially since.

So is it possible that the whole thing was one massive corporate conspiracy? It couldn't have worked out better for 'Missing Persons'. If someone was going to plan something like this, they would know that a little white girl whose family have a good social standing would bring the most media attention. And they relaunched their 'brand' off the back of that media attention. The timing could not have been more perfect for them (especially given that 'International Missing Childrens Day' came right after their relaunch and Maddie's disappearance, ensuring maximum publicity and exposure for their appeal).

I'm not saying I believe any of this by the way, as I said in the other thread about the McCanns, I'm an evidence person. But I thought I'd throw this in to the mix anyway, since I found the info quite interesting (and even if there's nothing sinister behind any of it, it certainly shows how important the McCanns have been to the charity). But as far as conspiracy's go I think it's quite a good one

It the first time the "award" has been given,clearly to make Kate look an angel

[Kizzy]

Lorraine would never leave her wee bairns alone

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Lorraine would never leave her wee bairns alone

She's only got one and she is grown up ,which begs the question why does LK have every school holiday off,which would be ok as she irritates the **** out of me,but they replace her with the equally annoying Fiona Phillips

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Lorraine would never leave her wee bairns alone

Can't stand her either false mare,

[Kizzy]

Aw she seems really friendly, might just be her accent though

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Aw she seems really friendly, might just be her accent though

she is friendly Kizzy

Spoiler:

to your face

[Vicky.]

Seems to be a real award..not mention of Kate or Coral though oddly

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...missing-people

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Seems to be a real award..not mention of Kate or Coral though oddly

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/m...missing-people

2 x different awards Vicky

[user104658]

Like I said before: as utterly effing mental as it may seem to most people (I would hope)... British parents doping their kids with over-the-counter meds intended for adults (usually antihistamines) so that they'll sleep and / or be quiet **is** common. A massive argument over it, and the "ill feeling" between hundreds of members that followed, is a large part of what triggered our own website shutting down about 3 years ago.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Like I said before: as utterly effing mental as it may seem to most people (I would hope)... British parents doping their kids with over-the-counter meds intended for adults (usually antihistamines) so that they'll sleep and / or be quiet **is** common. A massive argument over it, and the "ill feeling" between hundreds of members that followed, is a large part of what triggered our own website shutting down about 3 years ago.

It's so disgusting to contemplate, some people don't deserve to have kids

[Crimson Dynamo]

I hope the Queen recogniseses the work that she does

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I hope the Queen recogniseses the work that she does

Doubtful

[bots]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I hope the Queen recogniseses the work that she does

Does she do a lot for lost corgi's?

[Amy Jade]

I read the Katie Hopkins article and I have to say she does make a lot of sense, I have always felt sorry for the McCanns and still do feel sorry but it's hard to have as much sympathy as I did before after reading Katie's opinions.

I have to say though I don't really understand anyone who just leaves their kids alone - when I look after my cousins son and take him to the shop I literally watch him like a hawk and he's 5, luckily he's not the sort to run off but I don't let him out of my sight at all so I really don't understand how patents leave their kids run around supermarkets alone or leave them outside a shop while they run inside as much as leaving them asleep while you leave the house

[LFredz]

Bit of a disgrace imo.

[Livia]

Lots of people leave their kids alone, even if it's for a few minutes. They do other stupid, endangering stuff too. My brother, when his first daughter was little, was playing with her and threw her up in the air and hit her head on the ceiling. Is he an abusive parent? No... he was beside himself with remorse and guilt for his stupidity. Luckily she was fine and he didn't have to have strangers tell him what a bad parent he is for the rest of his life. It was stupid what the McCanns did, but it's what thousands holidaymakers do every year and no one on here can argue with that, although no doubt some of you will try. Sadly, on top of having her child taken and not knowing what happened to her, some people find some kind of sick joy is sticking it to the McCanns when most of you know absolutely bugger all about the case except what you've read on the Internet.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

Lots of people leave their kids alone, even if it's for a few minutes. They do other stupid, endangering stuff too. My brother, when his first daughter was little, was playing with her and threw her up in the air and hit her head on the ceiling. Is he an abusive parent? No... he was beside himself with remorse and guilt for his stupidity. Luckily she was fine and he didn't have to have strangers tell him what a bad parent he is for the rest of his life. It was stupid what the McCanns did, but it's what thousands holidaymakers do every year and no one on here can argue with that, although no doubt some of you will try. Sadly, on top of having her child taken and not knowing what happened to her, some people find some kind of sick joy is sticking it to the McCanns when most of you know absolutely bugger all about the case except what you've read on the Internet.

I really agree with this. Like, taking the case on face value, without considering any conspiracies etc and just looking at what we know (or probably more importantly, ignoring what we don't know) and so assuming that they had nothing to do with it, it is a situation that could have happened to any number of people. And that's not to justify that they left her alone, personally I think they never should have done that, and it's great in a way that so many people find it shocking that they did, but it can't be denied that a lot of parents do it. And a lot of parents will have done it the same night that Maddie went missing. So as much as it can be argued that 'it's all their own fault' because of their actions, it's also a fair argument that they were incredibly unlucky. Luck has to come into it for the simple reason that their child was taken, rather than someone elses.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Livia

Lots of people leave their kids alone, even if it's for a few minutes. They do other stupid, endangering stuff too. My brother, when his first daughter was little, was playing with her and threw her up in the air and hit her head on the ceiling. Is he an abusive parent? No... he was beside himself with remorse and guilt for his stupidity. Luckily she was fine and he didn't have to have strangers tell him what a bad parent he is for the rest of his life. It was stupid what the McCanns did, but it's what thousands holidaymakers do every year and no one on here can argue with that, although no doubt some of you will try. Sadly, on top of having her child taken and not knowing what happened to her, some people find some kind of sick joy is sticking it to the McCanns when most of you know absolutely bugger all about the case except what you've read on the Internet.

I can see your point but ultimately I can't bring myself to agree with you; most people's stupid mistakes don't result in a missing child, a media storm, lawsuits, being uncooperative with the police, fundraising etc - these things are accountable, when they involve the public, especially on the fundraising front. I think it's a huge stretch to compare accidentally injuring your child when you're having a bit of fun with choosing to leave your children in an unlocked apartment while you go out for dinner, those are not similar scenarios, your brother didn't leave his child and came back to find her injured.

I've not seen a mass of people come out and say that they would do what the McCanns did on their holiday. I've seen people sympathise with them for their loss, I've seen people sympathise with them for making a foolish decision like that, but I've not seen people say "yeah don't worry about it I'd have done the same" - it IS stupid to leave your kids in an unlocked apartment while you go out for dinner. Would they have done that at home? I doubt it. Holiday mode madness set in. But when there were numerous options available to them, it seems maddeningly stupid. I don't agree that thousands of holidaymakers would do the same thing as them, certainly not now that this high profile case is so well known to the public - would you want to be the couple who made the same mistake as the McCanns after a decade of seeing them be vilified in the press and having no answers to where their daughter went? Nobody has anywhere near this level of vitriol for the parents of Sarah Payne, April Jones, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman, Ben Needham, Milly Dowler... the cold lack of emotion is a factor, and so is the lack of cooperation with the police, and so is the lack of admission of guilt on their behalf (I presume because they don't want a lawsuit/court case)... that's the difference for me.

And the other thing that's always bothered me, of course, is why would a kidnapper take the toddler and not take the babies too, if they'd been planning on taking her and had been watching the property? There are far too many holes in the hypothesis for it to make any sense. I can't figure out their motivations, but it's certainly not all about finding their daughter, they've not done everything they can to do that and I find that abhorrent and I think that makes them fully accountable to the public and they deserve to be scrutinised and have people doubt their claims, because they've not done everything in their power to convince anyone otherwise. They can sue me if they want to.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Z

And the other thing that's always bothered me, of course, is why would a kidnapper take the toddler and not take the babies too, if they'd been planning on taking her and had been watching the property?

God forbid it could of been a lone pedo or a pedo ring that took her. Someone who had no interest in boys. Pedos get fixated with certain ages and certain types. The same week Maddie went missing an English guy chased a man away on the beach for trying to take photographs of his daughter who was the same age and colouring as Maddie.

She could of been taken and sold for a lot of money to a childless couple in a far away land.

[Z]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

God forbid it could of been a lone pedo or a pedo ring that took her. Someone who had no interest in boys. Pedos get fixated with certain ages and certain types. The same week Maddie went missing an English guy chased a man away on the beach for trying to take photographs of his daughter who was the same age and colouring as Maddie.

She could of been taken and sold for a lot of money to a childless couple in a far away land.

Let's take your scenarios then.

1) Lone paedophile. Watching the apartment, sees the parents go out for dinner and leave the door unlocked with somebody coming to check on kids every so often. Walk in after one of the checks. Is your motive personal, you want to abuse a female toddler? Alright, take just Madeleine. Tell me how they aren't at least partially to blame in this scenario? They could have easily locked the door and given the key to whichever friend was due to go check on the children.

2) Gang of paedophiles. Why would they not take all of the children? Babies grow into toddlers. There will be mixed interests within the gang, or they'll know someone who would have been into that sort of thing or had access to people trafficking avenues. If there's a group of them, carrying three small children is hardly an issue. However, more people = more chance of leaving forensic evidence, of which there seems to be none.

3) Taken and sold to a caring, upstanding family abroad. They'd have known by now who Madeleine McCann is and if you're buying your children on the black market I'm going to assume there are very particular reasons for not having children a more conventional route and that maybe there's, shock, an evil element to it.

Face it, she's not alive, it IS their fault in some way whether they want to admit it to themselves or not and if she IS still alive, I don't imagine there's any hope for her to have a normal life if she's ever found. For her sake, I hope she's dead, I would hate to think what a toddler in the clutches of a paedophile/s would have gone through over the last decade.

[DemolitionRed]

I think the terrible thing for Maddie's parents is, there is no closure. That one stupid act not only left them without their daughter but a continuing speculation about what happened to her. I just can't imagine a nightmare worse than the one they have to live through on a day to day basis.

If I thought there was the slightest possibility of my child still being alive, I'd be doing what they are doing, which is anything to get media interest. The problem is, every time they do this it stir up refreshed hatred towards them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I think the terrible thing for Maddie's parents is, there is no closure. That one stupid act not only left them without their daughter but a continuing speculation about what happened to her. I just can't imagine a nightmare worse than the one they have to live through on a day to day basis.

If I thought there was the slightest possibility of my child still being alive, I'd be doing what they are doing, which is anything to get media interest. The problem is, every time they do this it stir up refreshed hatred towards them.

That depends on whether or not you believe their version of events of course. There's no evidence of an abductor and the PJ originally concluded that the parents were involved but didn't have enough evidence to charge them. Ultimately, there is not enough evidence to support either theory 100% so i don't know why people get so indignant about the fact that the parents being involved is a strong possibility