[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How do they know the person asking for the postal vote is the person named on the register.
No signatures are cross checked,if you had to go with id and a signature id too, to qualify for a postal vote fair enough.

What if someone just applies, that lives at the same address, then gets an additional vote for themselves, rather than for the person.

Also who is watching when a person makes a postal vote out,are they voting for who 'they' really want to or what someone else may be 'guiding' or even 'telling' them to do.
Or indeed may they just be signing the form and some other person filling the vote in anyway as to how they have voted.
I agree with arista, postal voting is more open to possible 'interference' from other individuals and may be far from private too.

At a polling station, anyone going there,would not be taking anyone else in to the actual polling booth, or even discussing their voting with anyone else while in the polling station.
With the attendants watching them.
A very big difference.

Anyway while we are heading to leave the EU and it seems no one in govt, or anywhere else, has a clue how to go about that, perhaps across the board at the same time, it could be looked into as to a new voting system for the UK now and some tightening up with photo and signature id required to gain postal votes.

You could say all of that about actually registering to vote. How can you know the people completing the form are who they say they are.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You could say all of that about actually registering to vote. How can you know the people completing the form are who they say they are.

You are right, Jaxie. I'm a qualified and experienced election agent and I've worked with the Electoral Commission and my local electoral services on many elections, European, Parliamentary, County, District and Town. When people apply for a postal vote they have to provide a copy of their signature, as you know. If they cannot and someone signs on their behalf, a reason has to be given and this is usually followed up. People's signatures are checked against the postal vote request and can also be checked against other documentation held by the council. Also, people's requests are often checked against what's called the Marked Register. This is a copy of the electoral roll which is marked as to which voter cast a vote in the last election (obviously it only says whether they voted, not who they voted for). You can see whether this person has voted in the past. If they haven't, then enquiries are made.

There is no fool proof system because fools are so ingenious. But we have in this country one of the best, one of the fairest systems in the world. Of course there are people who think everything's a conspiracy... However, staff in council's electoral services department are really thorough and committed as is the Electoral Commission. I agree with you about the future of postal votes.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You could say all of that about actually registering to vote. How can you know the people completing the form are who they say they are.

Well if proper checks are made that would be found out, people registering to vote will have other details, they may be council tenants or the homeowners, they will be registered with energy suppliers.
A simple check can identify that.

However you are missing the point,with a vote at a polling station, you go in not necessarily with your card but your name and address at least.
You cannot have anyone with you in the polling booth, you fill the ballot paper yourself and put it in a sealed box.
You cannot vote again and that vote is done.

A postal vote is done in the home,the point Kizzy and I were making and arista I think too, is that no one is overseeing how that votes is arrived at.
Some people, not you yourself, think it conspiracy theories, just to try to belittle others but answer the question please.
The vote at the polling station for a named person is watched over by those in attendance at that polling station.

'Who' watches over a postal vote being done for anyone in their home,who sees them, or has to sign they have seen that person, vote and sign and seal that ballot themselves.
To some who should know better, I say in a massive difference to the way the polling station vote is done ,no one sees that postal vote done or how it is done at all.
That is a simple fact.

[Livia]

Jaxie... you are not missing any point.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Jaxie... you are not missing any point.

Well being an election agent and knowing so much about the voting,answer please who does see the votes cast properly in a postal vote.
Also is the polling station voting not watched to make sure no one shows their vote to anyone else, or interferes or has interference with their vote too.

I was the one who said jaxie was missing the point, I am also aware you know a lot about voting and politics but it is mystifying you cannot see the difference as to how a polling station vote is overseen, unlike a postal vote which is not in any way..

I also think if another member and myself were members you actually had any liking for you would be agreeing and indeed probably making that point yourself too.

Because to me it is clear as day,a polling station vote is watched over at the time and all through it being done, start to finish, a postal vote is open to anything, as no one watches over it at all when it is being done.

That is precisely the point being made and missed,however even more surprisingly and worrying is that it is being missed too by an election agent it seems.
That for sure would worry me especially with postal voting on a very large increase.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Jaxie... you are not missing any point.

Could my point be addressed please as you are the resident expert in this scenario too it seems, once the ballots are entrusted to the mail service who is there to ensure they are not tampered with or stolen?

[Livia]

Your claim that if this topic was being covered by people I actually liked instead of you... that's the thing that's mystifying. I have lots of friends on here with whom I don't agree but we can remain civil. We were friends, you and I, until you changed your political allegiance and decided I was your enemy for some reason.

I find your claim that you're worried that an election agent like me is missing YOUR point. Your opinion has nothing whatsoever to do with what's actually true in my professional opinion and I'll thank you not to question my professional opinion until the ink's dry on your degree.

Anyone could walk into a polling station with my polling card and cast a vote. You don't have to take photo ID. It is as open to fraud as postal votes (and proxy votes) are. You can't make anything fool proof, as I've already said, but I'm happy, as a professional, that the system is carefully monitored. No political party is allowed to have anything to do with the postal votes. They can send out the forms so long as their local electoral services is in agreement and has approved the form, but they are not legally entitled to receive them once completed. Saying that postal votes are dangerous is saying that the people who work in electoral services and the Electoral Commission are untrustworthy. You're also assuming that the people in whose name the postal vote is prepared are either stupid or in league with fraudsters. Most people I know take their vote very seriously. What's more, professional people police the system brilliantly. Does fraud sometimes happen? Of course. Is it punished with prison sentences? Yes.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Could my point be addressed please as you are the resident expert in this scenario too it seems, once the ballots are entrusted to the mail service who is there to ensure they are not tampered with or stolen?

Also, often it is the disabled who get a postal vote too,who then entrust the posting of that vote by another.
What if that 'other' does not post it.

Are there any checks as to why people have not used a postal vote sent to them if not received back.
Surely if someone wants a postal vote they are usually at least eager to use a vote.

Are there any checks as to why they have not used it,do they wish to continue having postal votes sent if they haven't.

Nothing to do with conspiracy theories, just pointing out the more possible flaws there are as to postal voting and with more and more postal voting now going on, I would guess less checks, if there even are any, being made at all.
However we apparently know nothing Kizzy so are not deemed worthy of a decent answer.

I will tell you this, there are many MPs of all Parties worried as to postal voting, even if election agents are it seems not bothered in the slightest.

[bots]

With respect to the current voting system, singling out postal voting is just so insignificant in the scheme of things. Things like weather affect voting results much more than anything fraudulent that can be achieved, unspotted.

Its not a perfect system, no-one is suggesting it is, but it is still very good.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Could my point be addressed please as you are the resident expert in this scenario too it seems, once the ballots are entrusted to the mail service who is there to ensure they are not tampered with or stolen?

I think I've covered this topic adequately. If you think the Royal Mail is in league with a political party you should contact the police.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

With respect to the current voting system, singling out postal voting is just so insignificant in the scheme of things. Things like weather affect voting results much more than anything fraudulent that can be achieved, unspotted.

Its not a perfect system, no-one is suggesting it is, but it is still very good.

Exactly. But I think it's fair to say that if someone else has said what I have said, it would not be being questioned.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

If you think the Royal Mail is in league with a political party you should contact the police.

That would be impossible, the Royal Mail will never give up their age-old servitude to Satan himself. They have no time for our petty human politics.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

The solution is simple...have 2 rounds of voting. Round 1 everyone in. Then round 2 just 2 parties left and see how the votes go

Ooh I like this idea. I tend to vote Labour because I know its always between them and the Tories and I don't want my vote to be 'wasted' If it was like this I could vote how I actually wanted to the first round

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That would be impossible, the Royal Mail will never give up their age-old servitude to Satan himself. They have no time for our petty human politics.

I have collected a parcel from my local sorting office and I know this to be true.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Exactly. But I think it's fair to say that if someone else has said what I have said, it would not be being questioned.

Tbf you are an easy target and Kizzy is still on her kiddy gloves so she needs the practice. She's tried Kirk... but let's be honest, she's just not there yet. She needs the softer, subtler, feminine touch of a good wind-up-Livia session.. Kirk uses his loud voice and it gives her a spook

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ooh I like this idea. I tend to vote Labour because I know its always between them and the Tories and I don't want my vote to be 'wasted' If it was like this I could vote how I actually wanted to the first round

I can never bring myself to vote for either of our two main parties, they may as well be the same thing

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I have collected a parcel from my local sorting office and I know this to be true.

They put my wife's new iPhone in the recycle bin. At the house three doors down.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Electoral Commission oversees all elections in the UK and prosecutes wrongdoings when they find them. Fiddling with an election carries a jail sentence. I have faith in them.

I hope more are sent to Jail,
for Corruption

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They put my wife's new iPhone in the recycle bin. At the house three doors down.

Blimey, did she get it eventually?

When I worked for the Tories, the MPs office was about 150 metres from the sorting office. He didn't get his post until 3pm at the earliest... ever. But then, it was a Conservative office...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I can never bring myself to vote for either of our two main parties, they may as well be the same thing

Same here really...well before Corbyn...but sadly Corbyn has no chance anyway.

Labour and Tories have been very similar for a while now, with the slight exception of Labour being a bit nicer to poorer/working class people. As someone who comes from a working class family (my grandad was a miner and would turn in his grave if I voted Tory ) and is not well off myself, Labour is the option for me. IF I was well off and owned my house and stuff, I would probably go for Tory.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I can never bring myself to vote for either of our two main parties, they may as well be the same thing

To be fair, that's a comment that could have come from anyone in any country!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I can never bring myself to vote for either of our two main parties, they may as well be the same thing

Skim off the surface and really they're all the same, sadly. Politics attracts a certain type of person with a certain type of ambition and, at the end of the day, these types of people have the same outlook on life and politics. They just dress it up in slightly different ways. I vote SNP and am largely in favour of Scottish independence because I am generally in favour of devolved politics as much as possible, because the smaller the governed population, the more likely it is that people other than career politicians will have their voice heard and be in a position to make any real impact. I'd see a world of thousands of small city-states working in union, to be honest.

But yes anyway... it's not because I think SNP politicians are any different to Labour or Tory politicians. Sadly they're just more of the same. All of the smaller parties are. All of those who would claim otherwise are too (e.g. Mr Corbyn).

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Same here really...well before Corbyn...but sadly Corbyn has no chance anyway.

Labour and Tories have been very similar for a while now, with the slight exception of Labour being a bit nicer to poorer/working class people. As someone who comes from a working class family (my grandad was a miner and would turn in his grave if I voted Tory ) and is not well off myself, Labour is the option for me. IF I was well off and owned my house and stuff, I would probably go for Tory.

Like I don't even think there's that kind of small difference between our two

Sinn fein really are the most different of the bigger parties, they're definitely the most "working class friendly" The problem for them though is shaking off their past associations with the IRA. They really need to get rid of Gerry Adams as their leader because his face will always remind people of that.

Originally Posted by Livia

To be fair, that's a comment that could have come from anyone in any country!

Very true

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Blimey, did she get it eventually?

When I worked for the Tories, the MPs office was about 150 metres from the sorting office. He didn't get his post until 3pm at the earliest... ever. But then, it was a Conservative office...

Her provider sent a replacement free of charge because it was (obviously!) never signed for, but the neighbours did eventually bring it to us weeks later, as they had been away and came back to find the delivery card. That's the only reason we ever found out where it had been! Being honest (and really, fearing that the company would be able to track the phone if anyone used it ) we sent it back to the provider. But I'm pretty sure if those neighbours had just kept it / sold it, no one would ever have known . Well done Mr Postman, it was only a £600 phone .

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Her provider sent a replacement free of charge because it was (obviously!) never signed for, but the neighbours did eventually bring it to us weeks later, as they had been away and came back to find the delivery card. That's the only reason we ever found out where it had been! Being honest (and really, fearing that the company would be able to track the phone if anyone used it ) we sent it back to the provider. But I'm pretty sure if those neighbours had just kept it / sold it, no one would ever have known . Well done Mr Postman, it was only a £600 phone .

You sent it BACK?!?

I'm ordering you an iHalo.