[Underscore]

I am an intersectional feminist and believe that feminism is more than just gender equality. It's using equity to achieve equality too.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I just watched The Big Question on TV, and one of the discussions was about feminism. And what struck me was this: Women have been oppressed by men for millennia. Things are changing now... we've come an awful long way. And now... men want to join in the discussion. Not just join in, they want to lead the discussion. While I watched the men on the show tell women what feminism is and how they should deal with it, I wondered what would happen if it was a discussion about racial oppression, and there were a bunch of white males in the front row saying, look, we understand your feelings of oppression... We know how that feels... we're going to help... and this is what we're going to do...

yep

[bots]

Originally Posted by Livia

I just watched The Big Question on TV, and one of the discussions was about feminism. And what struck me was this: Women have been oppressed by men for millennia. Things are changing now... we've come an awful long way. And now... men want to join in the discussion. Not just join in, they want to lead the discussion. While I watched the men on the show tell women what feminism is and how they should deal with it, I wondered what would happen if it was a discussion about racial oppression, and there were a bunch of white males in the front row saying, look, we understand your feelings of oppression... We know how that feels... we're going to help... and this is what we're going to do...

it makes a lot of sense for men to control what equality means to a women

[BBUK-Fan]

Feminism is a load of women that take things too far and try to trash men. Feminists are just a hate group really and say it's all equality but it's trashing men

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by BBUK-Fan

Feminism is a load of women that take things too far and try to trash men. Feminists are just a hate group really and say it's all equality but it's trashing men

men are trash

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by BBUK-Fan

Feminism is a load of women that take things too far and try to trash men. Feminists are just a hate group really and say it's all equality but it's trashing men

That sounds distinctly sexist. Sounds rather like LBTG groups who take things too far and try to trash women and their rights and other anti-discrimination groups who take things too far and try to trash the opinions of others to me. You can’t logically single out feminist groups over other such groups.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That sounds distinctly sexist. Sounds rather like LBTG groups who take things too far and try to trash women and their rights and other anti-discrimination groups who take things too far and try to trash the opinions of others to me. You can’t logically single out feminist groups over other such groups.

Basically "you cant hate feminists, other anti-discrimation groups are worse"

Youre both as clueless as each other.

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by Withano

Basically "you cant hate feminists, other anti-discrimation groups are worse"

Youre both as clueless as each other.

.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Basically "you cant hate feminists, other anti-discrimation groups are worse"

Youre both as clueless as each other.

Yes you are if you can’t see that such extremism applies to all.

You can’t single out one and not another, not hate, why do some love to label that way, but not all only some. I smell a rat.

[Niamh.]

It feels like some men, alot of men actually, are scared of women becoming "too equal" men I never would have thought would act like that as well. I'm not quite sure where that fear comes from or what they're afraid of though? I do understand though in some situations balancing things on one side can make things unbalanced on the other. Like fathers rights for example, that's certainly a place where men(fathers) are unequal and that needs addressing. I consider myself to be a feminist and tackling Fathers rights (or lack of them) would also fall under feminism imo

[Alf]

Why don't we settle this with a good old fashioned scrap?

We'd batter you!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Why don't we settle this with a good old fashioned scrap?

We'd batter you!

Settle what? Actually, you've just shown how alot of people view feminism, like it's some sort of battle for top spot.....instead of just wanting equality. This is the type of attitude that women face everyday but are told we're imagining it, we are equal now get back in your box and shut up

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Settle what? Actually, you've just shown how alot of people view feminism, like it's some sort of battle for top spot.....instead of just wanting equality. This is the type of attitude that women face everyday but are told we're imagining it, we are equal now get back in your box and shut up

Put em up, I'll take you with one arm behind my back.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Put em up, I'll take you with one arm behind my back.

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by BBUK-Fan

Feminism is a load of women that take things too far and try to trash men. Feminists are just a hate group really and say it's all equality but it's trashing men

when you clearly no nothing about feminism

[Alf]

Maybe the men haters choose the wrong men in life? You always see women judging men on looks alone, and hear many of them say, "I like a bad boy" And women seem creeped out by shy quiet boys.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Maybe the men haters choose the wrong men in life? You always see women judging men on looks alone, and hear many of them say, "I like a bad boy" And women seem creeped out by shy quiet boys.

again, displaying the very very common attitude that people (mostly men but not all men thankfully) have of women who point out inequality between the sexes. I am a feminist and I have fantastic men in my life tyvm, 3 brothers, a husband and a son

Thanks Alf though for the demonstrations, I'm waiting for example number 3 : The feminazis are fat ugly lesbians who are just mad cos no one fancies them

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

again, displaying the very very common attitude that people (mostly men but not all men thankfully) have of women who point out inequality between the sexes. I am a feminist and I have fantastic men in my life tyvm, 3 brothers, a husband and a son

Thanks Alf though for the demonstrations, I'm waiting for example number 3 : The feminazis are fat ugly lesbians who are just mad cos no one fancies them

You see, you don't need me to tell you that, you know it yourself.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

again, displaying the very very common attitude that people (mostly men but not all men thankfully) have of women who point out inequality between the sexes. I am a feminist and I have fantastic men in my life tyvm, 3 brothers, a husband and a son

Thanks Alf though for the demonstrations, I'm waiting for example number 3 : The feminazis are fat ugly lesbians who are just mad cos no one fancies them

We already had this a few days back

Originally Posted by Alf

Because fat ugly feminist are jealous of them.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/42841620

[Tom4784]

It's a common theme when it comes to certain people in most majorities that they misunderstand equality for dominance, you'll find people like that in every majority. It's just a complete and utter lack of understanding and empathy, essentially because they've deluded themselves into thinking that equality is a thing because they don't suffer any kind of discrimination so it's not a thing for anyone else either. They'll look at things like Feminism, pride and LGBT, Black Lives Matters etc as tipping the scales against them because they just don't understand discrimination because they have never experienced it.

Their idea of equality for those kinds of people is having a majorityand them being that majority so they find the idea of actual equality to be nothing more than an attack on them when it's just balancing the scales that have always been tipped in their favour.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

You see, you don't need me to tell you that, you know it yourself.

Game, set and match Alf

Originally Posted by Vicky.

We already had this a few days back

Ha, must be psychic

[Tom4784]

Alf, your posts in this thread are the ultimate proof of how fragile a man's sense of masculinity is and how easily it's threatened.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I just watched The Big Question on TV, and one of the discussions was about feminism. And what struck me was this: Women have been oppressed by men for millennia. Things are changing now... we've come an awful long way. And now... men want to join in the discussion. Not just join in, they want to lead the discussion. While I watched the men on the show tell women what feminism is and how they should deal with it, I wondered what would happen if it was a discussion about racial oppression, and there were a bunch of white males in the front row saying, look, we understand your feelings of oppression... We know how that feels... we're going to help... and this is what we're going to do...

Have the women who are part of the discussion today been oppressed by the men who are part of the discussion today for millenia? This part always confuses me; this idea that "women" and "men" are some sort of cohesive sentient entity with a memory stretching back beyond the lifespan of the individual. It doesn't really make sense.

That's not to say the millenia of oppression doesn't still affect society today; it does in many ways and that's something that society as a whole needs to address. But the fact is, many (most) of the men who are part of the discussion today have never oppressed anyone in any way, and so the idea that they should be excluded from the discussion of achieving equality is ludicrous and entirely misses the point. Of course men shouldn't lead or dominate the discussion, but nor should women lead or dominate the discussion... And anyone who thinks they should, frankly, is not seeking equality.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a common theme when it comes to certain people in most majorities that they misunderstand equality for dominance, you'll find people like that in every majority. It's just a complete and utter lack of understanding and empathy, essentially because they've deluded themselves into thinking that equality is a thing because they don't suffer any kind of discrimination so it's not a thing for anyone else either. They'll look at things like Feminism, pride and LGBT, Black Lives Matters etc as tipping the scales against them because they just don't understand discrimination because they have never experienced it.

Their idea of equality for those kinds of people is having a majorityand them being that majority so they find the idea of actual equality to be nothing more than an attack on them when it's just balancing the scales that have always been tipped in their favour.

You think most women haven’t experienced discrimination - I have on several occasions. It always has been and still is to a degree a part of every woman’s life. Discrimination is not exclusive to minority groups. It shows how much you know if that is what you are trying to say.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Have the women who are part of the discussion today been oppressed by the men who are part of the discussion today for millenia? This part always confuses me; this idea that "women" and "men" are some sort of cohesive sentient entity with a memory stretching back beyond the lifespan of the individual. It doesn't really make sense.

That's not to say the millenia of oppression doesn't still affect society today; it does in many ways and that's something that society as a whole needs to address. But the fact is, many (most) of the men who are part of the discussion today have never oppressed anyone in any way, and so the idea that they should be excluded from the discussion of achieving equality is ludicrous and entirely misses the point. Of course men shouldn't lead or dominate the discussion, but nor should women lead or dominate the discussion... And anyone who thinks they should, frankly, is not seeking equality.

Well... firstly, no, they were not the same men that have oppressed women over millennia. In much the same way that Britain is no longer an Empire, oppressing other countries but we're constantly reminded of our input... You only have to have a glance through Serious Debates to know that Britain is STILL accused of all kinds of stuff that happened before any of us was born... what we did in the Raj... what we did in Africa.... etc. etc. I don't see how it's different, really. People IN those countries don't want British people involved in affairs affecting their country. And in much the same way, although the men alive now have not oppressed women over millennia, I for one don't want men to be leading a discussion about feminism.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think men should not be involved in the discussion. We need men on board... but this is about women. And while most men are very supportive and thoughtful... you've only got to look at some of the aggression that surfaces, from some men, whenever there's a discussion about feminism and women's rights.