[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I thought you guys always say that "freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences"...

And obviously there is no freedom of speech if there's consequences for your speech.

We're no different from third world countries and China if we carry on with that kind of thinking in our society.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

And obviously there is no freedom of speech if there's consequences for your speech.

We're no different from third world countries and China if we carry on with that kind of thinking in our society.

right on

[Abra]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Well, tbf, the overwhelming bulk of Leftists are deeply antisemite/ anti zionist so I find it strange that they disagree with the well recorded Jewish influence in Germany during that era.

I think George was just agreeing with that perspective and saying that it needed to be dealt with but the way that Hitler did it was wrong.

I am honestly not sure why it is so objectionable to the left all of a sudden. The modern Leftist position is far closer to the Nazi one (the National Socialist one, tbc) than the bulk of the Right hold, which is in the mainly pro Israel/ Jewish.

It seems to me that the modern Leftist would actually agree with George. It's actually no different to hating Zionism and screaming 'from the river the the sea'.

The left object to the fact that Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, that doesn't make them Nazi's, quite the opposite actually. Say what you want about anti-zionism, but the fact of the matter is that Israel's actual actions are far more comparable to the Nazi's.

Trying to justify a man defending Hitler just because he's a right winger is really a new low. When did it get this bad for you guys?

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Abra

The left object to the fact that Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, that doesn't make them Nazi's, quite the opposite actually. Say what you want about anti-zionism, but the fact of the matter is that Israel's actual actions are far more comparable to the Nazi's.

Trying to justify a man defending Hitler just because he's a right winger is really a new low. When did it get this bad for you guys?

Well, if criticising Islam make you 'racist' then criticising Zionism makes you antisemitic, sorry to say.

The thing is with Leftists is that they tend to reinvent words and move goal posts and definitions to suit themselves.

But... Nazi = national socialism

I didn't justify anything that George said.. L2R? I was simply attempting to clarify it for you. This is not the same thing.

I am deeply against antisemitism, which is why I am deeply critical of the modern Leftist/ Islamist alliance and their ongoing crusade against Jews.

I have been to the Palestine protests and I have seen the deeply anti semitic banners and heard the race baiting slogans. A lot of these people wish for a Jewish genocide, and the 'moderates' on the left pretend they are innocent and run block for them. Jews are being killed on our streets, and it isn't by anyone on the right.

Let's stop pretending that George saying Hitler was misguided is the problem (for some reason... I mean he literally said Hitler was misguided) and maybe look at what Islamo communists are actually doing in the real world and acknowledge the threat they pose to Jewish people here in the UK.

[Livia]

Great post @vesavius

[Abra]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Well, if criticising Islam make you 'racist' then criticising Zionism makes you antisemitic, sorry to say.

The thing is with Leftists is that they tend to reinvent words and move goal posts and definitions to suit themselves.

But... Nazi = national socialism

I didn't justify anything that George said.. L2R? I was simply attempting to clarify it for you. This is not the same thing.

I am deeply against antisemitism, which is why I am deeply critical of the modern Leftist/ Islamist alliance and their ongoing crusade against Jews.

I have been to the Palestine protests and I have seen the deeply anti semitic banners and heard the race baiting slogans. A lot of these people wish for a Jewish genocide, and the 'moderates' on the left pretend they are innocent and run block for them. Jews are being killed on our streets, and it isn't by anyone on the right.

Let's stop pretending that George saying Hitler was misguided is the problem (for some reason... I mean he literally said Hitler was misguided) and maybe look at what Islamo communists are actually doing in the real world and acknowledge the threat they pose to Jewish people here in the UK.

Just to clarify. I am deeply against anti-semitism. I draw a clear distinction between Israel and Jewish people in general. My criticism of the genocidal state of Israel has nothing to do with Jewish people, of whom I have many friends and loved ones. I accept that anti-semitism is present as it always has been, but equally on the other side there are people who support the fact that Israel have been slaughtering thousands upon thousands of Muslim babies and that has drawn no condemnation from the right.

If you feel that people are wishing for a "Jewish genocide", then I assume you must condemn Israel's genocide in Gaza? Or is it okay to commit a genocide against one group of people but not another?

I mentioned George defending Hitler because that was brought up by the right wingers in this thread, not myself. I actually don't think it's very comparable to the topic of this thread either as Zelah's alleged comments about Charlie Kirk are nowhere near as bad.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Abra

The left object to the fact that Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, that doesn't make them Nazi's, quite the opposite actually. Say what you want about anti-zionism, but the fact of the matter is that Israel's actual actions are far more comparable to the Nazi's.

Trying to justify a man defending Hitler just because he's a right winger is really a new low. When did it get this bad for you guys?

If you believe all Jews are responsible for Gaza. You must believe all Muslims are responsible for 9/11. Or, and this is more likely, you don't really know what T F you're talking about.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Abra

Just to clarify. I am deeply against anti-semitism. I draw a clear distinction between Israel and Jewish people in general. My criticism of the genocidal state of Israel has nothing to do with Jewish people, of whom I have many friends and loved ones. I accept that anti-semitism is present as it always has been, but equally on the other side there are people who support the fact that Israel have been slaughtering thousands upon thousands of Muslim babies and that has drawn no condemnation from the right.

If you feel that people are wishing for a "Jewish genocide", then I assume you must condemn Israel's genocide in Gaza? Or is it okay to commit a genocide against one group of people but not another?

I mentioned George defending Hitler because that was brought up by the right wingers in this thread, not myself. I actually don't think it's very comparable to the topic of this thread either as Zelah's alleged comments about Charlie Kirk are nowhere near as bad.

LMFAO @ your first sentence...

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Livia

If you believe all Jews are responsible for Gaza. You must believe all Muslims are responsible for 9/11. Or, and this is more likely, you don't really know what T F you're talking about.

Can you point to where I said that Jews are responsible for Gaza? Oh no, you can't because you are just talking out of your arse once again. What a surprise.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Livia

LMFAO @ your first sentence...

Why?

[Cherie]

Will they play the conversation tonight? they cut away pretty fast on Friday so not sure they will

[Kate!]

Comes in.... ooh some very rude posts in here aimed at Livia. I love her. Leave her be.

No need.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Will they play the conversation tonight? they cut away pretty fast on Friday so not sure they will

no, that slipped through. They already decided to keep it from the viewers. Although if the intention was to protect Zelah's position in the house, thats gone now

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Kate!

Comes in.... ooh some very rude posts in here aimed at Livia. I love her. Leave her be.

No need.

Every time I have criticised Israel's genocide she has attempted to smear me with lies as an antisemite despite the fact I have never posted anything remotely anti-semitic. It's not acceptable and she should know better.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kate!

Comes in.... ooh some very rude posts in here aimed at Livia. I love her. Leave her be.

No need.

I've been insulted by really clever people, so someone who's not even a good amateur is like water off a duck's back. Thanks though, Katie x

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Abra

Just to clarify. I am deeply against anti-semitism. I draw a clear distinction between Israel and Jewish people in general. My criticism of the genocidal state of Israel has nothing to do with Jewish people, of whom I have many friends and loved ones. I accept that anti-semitism is present as it always has been, but equally on the other side there are people who support the fact that Israel have been slaughtering thousands upon thousands of Muslim babies and that has drawn no condemnation from the right.

I am very aware of propaganda in every war and I do not take the statements of Hamas as fact and I think it is ridiculous to do so. There have been a lot of lies told in this whole thing, many which the left has gobbled up because it suits their natural antisemitism. It is deeper than this war.. Look at how the Labour party has been repeatedly found guilty of it by investigation and fined for it. The left has a long standing problem with Jews and always has had. It didn't start with Gaza, and it has coloured everything regarding the war for them. Their alliance with radical Islam is based pretty much on it, because it's a shared view.

Originally Posted by Abra

If you feel that people are wishing for a "Jewish genocide", then I assume you must condemn Israel's genocide in Gaza? Or is it okay to commit a genocide against one group of people but not another?

The current Gaza situation did not start with the Israeli action.

This particular action started with the slaughtering of 378 festival goers, the injuring of so many more, and the taking of 44 hostages (only of which 24 were rescued/ released after a horrifying captivity.. The rest died).

A UN fact finding mission confirms the use of violent rape and SA during that same attack, including gang rape. I won't go into more graphic details here regarding what went on during that day... It honestly makes horrific reading. It was pure barbarism.

You don't get to do that and then cry 'genocide' when your victim hits back. Of course there was going to be a retaliation and the use of human civilian shields means that Hamas was ready for that and ready to see it's own people die.

If another State attacked the UK and did this to us openly I would expect the U.K. to go to war over it.. Would you not?

[Abra]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I am very aware of propaganda in every war and I do not take the statements of Hamas as fact and I think it is ridiculous to do so. There have been a lot of lies told in this whole thing, many which the left has gobbled up because it suits their natural antisemitism. It is deeper than this war.. Look at how the Labour party has been repeatedly found guilty of it by investigation and fined for it. The left has a long standing problem with Jews and always has had. It didn't start with Gaza, and it has coloured everything regarding the war for them. Their alliance with radical Islam is based pretty much on it, because it's a shared view.



The current Gaza situation did not start with the Israeli action.

This particular action started with the slaughtering of 378 festival goers, the injuring of so many more, and the taking of 44 hostages (only of which 24 were rescued/ released after a horrifying captivity.. The rest died).

A UN fact finding mission confirms the use of violent rape and SA during that same attack, including gang rape. I won't go into more graphic details here regarding what went on during that day... It honestly makes horrific reading. It was pure barbarism.

You don't get to do that and then cry 'genocide' when your victim hits back. Of course there was going to retaliation and the use of human civilian shields means that Hamas was ready to see it's own people die.

If another State attacked the UK and did this to us openly I would expect the U.K. to go to war over it.. Would you not?

I absolutely condemn the October 7th attacks and I do not support Hamas, however there is no justification for genocide ever. Shocking that we live in a world where some people are still trying to excuse it.

If another state attacked the UK, no I would not support the UK committing a genocide against innocent civilians and murdering thousands of children. No, I would not.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've been insulted by really clever people, so someone who's not even a good amateur is like water off a duck's back. Thanks though, Katie x

Notice how I asked you to point out where I was anti-semitic, and notice how you couldn't.

Maybe next time stop lying in an attempt to deflect from the uncomfortable truth that you don't like, just a suggestion.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Abra

I absolutely condemn the October 7th attacks and I do not support Hamas, however there is no justification for genocide ever. Shocking that we live in a world where some people are still trying to excuse it.

If another state attacked the UK, no I would not support the UK committing a genocide against innocent civilians and murdering thousands of children. No, I would not.

It is not a 'genocide', that's just an emotive propaganda term used by the antisemite left and radical fundamentalist Muslims.

Hamas deliberately hid behind their own civilians and used them as a shield after performing the worst atrocities upon the civilians of Israel.

The suffering of civilians in this war did not start with the Israeli action. That action was literally triggered by the mass slaughter of civilians.

Look, I am sorry that what I say is shocking to you, but that's just because you aren't used to hearing it.. I personally do not believe that anyone regurgitating Hamas propaganda does not support Hamas and I do not believe that person has any kind of moral high ground over me in any of this.

Look, war is ****. Yes, I hope the cease fire holds because I want this particular one to be over and the death and suffering to stop. I sincerely hope that happens. But, what I won't do is paint the Palestinians as blameless angels (let's not even talk about LBGT rights and the treatment of women there...) and the Israelis as demonic bloodthirsty attack dogs like the Islamo-Left likes to do.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by vesavius

It is not a 'genocide', that's just an emotive propaganda term used by the antisemite left and radical fundamentalist Muslims.

Hamas deliberately hid behind their own civilians and used them as shield after performing the worst atrocities upon the civilians of Israel.

The suffering of civilians in this war did not start with the Israeli action. That action was literally triggered by the mass slaughter of civilians.

Look, I am sorry that what I say is shocking to you, but that's just because you aren't used to hearing it.. I personally do not believe that anyone regurgitating Hamas propaganda does not support Hamas and I do not believe that person has any kind of moral high ground over me in any of this.

Look, war is ****. Yes, I hope the cease fire holds because I want this particular one to be over and the death and suffering to stop. I sincerely hope that happens. But, what I won't do is paint the Palestinians as blameless angels (let's not even talk about LBGT rights and the treatment of women there...) and the Israelis as demonic bloodthirsty attack dogs like the Islamo-Left likes to do.

So loud and so wrong. Factually, it is a genocide. No amount of mental gymnastics or excuses will change that.

Unfortunately you have fallen for the Israeli propaganda machine. The fact that you don't even understand how you can be both anti-Hamas and the actions of Israel just show how short sighted your view is on this matter.

I absolutely am aware that LGBT and women's rights are diabolical in Palestine, as they are in many other places around the world, and I am not saying that every Palestinian person is a "blameless angel", but that doesn't excuse them being murdered. The fact that is used by you as an excuse to justify their slaughter is disturbing indeed. Palestinian babies who have been murdered in cold blood aren't discriminating against LGBT people and women. They were just born, and then Israel murdered them.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Abra

So loud and so wrong.

So propagandised and so wrong

Originally Posted by Abra

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I am ok with that.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Abra

Notice how I asked you to point out where I was anti-semitic, and notice how you couldn't.

Maybe next time stop lying in an attempt to deflect from the uncomfortable truth that you don't like, just a suggestion.

Maybe stop swallowing Hamas press releases whole, then regurgitating them on here and you won't look so silly. Just a suggestion.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Abra

Every time I have criticised Israel's genocide she has attempted to smear me with lies as an antisemite despite the fact I have never posted anything remotely anti-semitic. It's not acceptable and she should know better.

It’s her routine and frankly I’m disgusted that the powers that be continue to allow her to get away with it, I wouldn’t even get into a discussion with her about anything if I were you, she’s utterly determined to paint everyone that disagrees with her and Israel’s actions as Jew haters, it’s hideous

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Livia

Maybe stop swallowing Hamas press releases whole, then regurgitating them on here and you won't look so silly. Just a suggestion.

Nobody looks silly except you sweetheart. We're still waiting for you to point out where my posts were anti-semitic. It's been a few hours now and you've still produced absolutely nothing. Strange, huh?

Your desperate attempts at deflection are embarrassing and pitiful. If you can't debate without resorting to baseless lies then it's probably best for you to sit out these debates as you are clearly out of your depth.

[Abra]

Originally Posted by Liam-

It’s her routine and frankly I’m disgusted that the powers that be continue to allow her to get away with it, I wouldn’t even get into a discussion with her about anything if I were you, she’s utterly determined to paint everyone that disagrees with her and Israel’s actions as Jew haters, it’s hideous

Yeah it's so transparent, I mean it's one thing to be a genocide supporter, but add liar on top of that? Pick a struggle