[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Craigy_CraigO

He's got a point, I'm Ashleigh's biggest fan and he has a point.

[Ammi]

..a lot of them may have been up for eviction because of twists but they're eligible to be nominated and that's something that Helen has never been and even she says, she would like to experience the 'whole' BB so for me out of all of the females, Ashleigh is the 'top female' because she potentially could have been evicted but hasn't been...Helen has always had the advantage over any other housemate of being untouchable and therefore is a 'unique' housemate from that respect and can't really be compared with other housemates....

[KeanO]

Definitely the top girl, Helen would have been out week 1 or 2 had she not been allowed a free ride.(no pun intended)

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..a lot of them may have been up for eviction because of twists but they're eligible to be nominated and that's something that Helen has never been and even she says, she would like to experience the 'whole' BB so for me out of all of the females, Ashleigh is the 'top female' because she potentially could have been evicted but hasn't been...Helen has always had the advantage over any other housemate of being untouchable and therefore is a 'unique' housemate from that respect and can't really be compared with other housemates....

That isn't Helen's fault though,I don't care what any of the housemates say, any of them would have loved to have the free pass to the final from Pauline.
Helen is no way my favourite there but she is an equal housemate who got a very early 'perk' in the series,which I think was wrong to be given so early but again that is not her fault.

Asheigh for instance along with the other females, got a power week solely for them where only the guys were going to be up for eviction.
That isn't an equal scenario either.
Ashleigh may well have gone that week had she not then be protected from being up that week too.

Helen has still had to be in the house, do all the tasks and all else BB expects apart from being at the front of the eviction process.
That surely has to be what a free pass is however and should not have her deemed any less a housemate.
Had she chosen to get the pass, fine, however she was given it and not a sinngle housemate I bet would have refused it either had it been given them by Pauline rather than Helen.

Helen has the advantage because someone had to get that pass,Pauline of all of them chose her for it.
Her status as a housemate should not be belittled and brought down because she had it, if she hadn't the pass then someone else would have it.
I don't get the being pilloried for having something that was 'given' to you.

So for me the top female can be a personal choice as to who is liked but Helen and Ashleigh have been there from the start and one having a free pass while the other doesnt to the final,should not in my opinion make one of any higher status than the other.
I don't like Ashleigh, I make no secret of that,Helen is someone I would talk to but not really have anything to do with but for me on a status level they are both equal in that house as to the major females housemates for the time they have been in it.

It isn't Helen's fault at all that she has what you call an 'advantage', therefore her status as an equal housemate cannot be in question just because she has that pass
A pass which in truth, could have been given to any of the original housemates, except Pauline herself who was the one who decided who got it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That isn't Helen's fault though,I don't care what any of the housemates say, any of them would have loved to have the free pass to the final from Pauline.
Helen is no way my favourite there but she is an equal housemate who got a very early 'perk' in the series,which I think was wrong to be given so early but again that is not her fault.

Asheigh for instance along with the other females, got a power week solely for them where only the guys were going to be up for eviction.
That isn't an equal scenario either.
Ashleigh may well have gone that week had she not then be protected from being up that week too.

Helen has still had to be in the house, do all the tasks and all else BB expects apart from being at the front of the eviction process.
That surely has to be what a free pass is however and should not have her deemed any less a housemate.
Had she chosen to get the pass, fine, however she was given it and not a sinngle housemate I bet would have refused it either had it been given them by Pauline rather than Helen.

Helen has the advantage because someone had to get that pass,Pauline of all of them chose her for it.
Her status as a housemate should not be belittled and brought down because she had it, if she hadn't the pass then someone else would have it.
I don't get the being pilloried for having something that was 'given' to you.

So for me the top female can be a personal choice as to who is liked but Helen and Ashleigh have been there from the start and one having a free pass while the other doesnt to the final,should not in my opinion make one of any higher status than the other.
I don't like Ashleigh, I make no secret of that,Helen is someone I would talk to but not really have anything to do with but for me on a status level they are both equal in that house as to the major females housemates for the time they have been in it.

It isn't Helen's fault at all that she has what you call an 'advantage', therefore her status as an equal housemate cannot be in question just because she has that pass
A pass which in truth, could have been given to any of the original housemates, except Pauline herself who was the one who decided who got it.

...it’s not ‘equal’ though Joey and never will be unless she had been eligible to be nominated at some point like all other housemates were, regardless of twists or ‘power’..it was never meant to be equal though when BB gave it out, it was always meant to set that person apart and make them unique...I never said it was her fault, she didn’t choose to be chosen by Pauline but it’s still had the same result regardless of making her a ‘unique’ housemate as no one ever before on BB has been exempt form nomination/eviction for the entire series...what is helen’s responsibility though are the flaws in her character that to some/many and me included, make her quite unlikable as a person ...as are Ashleigh’s flaws as well and all other housemates and we all see those differently as well...but in terms of ‘all being equal/a level playing field’ so to speak, for me and as seen in this thread..lots of other people, Ashleigh is ‘top female’ because she and also by no fault of her own has experienced everything that is BB...nomination/eviction is one of the things that the housemates must hate most, the unpleasant thing part of rejection they have to go through at some point unless they’re that one winner and for Helen..when she’s so critical ofwho nominated who etc and why, she should have empathy for that and how hard it’s been for housemates to make these decisions and been the ones to ‘suffer’ from these decisions and in a way, it’s ok also for her fans in general to be critical of the fans of other housemates and how frustrated they have got by all these twists and turns etc and say..oh you wouldn’t say that if it was Helen..but they’ve also not been supporting a housemate where there was any fear of an eviction of that housemate and we all know from other years and no exemptions, how ‘excitable’....we get about that and worrying that our housemate will go....I will say also though Joey that it’s not just because it’s Helen, I would have said that the housemate has not had the full experience no matter who it was and it’s even what Helen knows and has said herself...she will outstay Ashleigh unless Ashleigh reaches the final and then she may not but for me Ashleigh is the ‘top female’ because she reached that stage with the possibility of eviction most weeks....

[sampvt]

I think everyone knows what these 2 girls bring to the show. Helen wears her heart on her sleeve and is a self confessed bitch, but she is TV gold where excitement is concerned and *******igh represents the game players of the world and that's it in a nutshell. We have got rid of the other female tossers, its now left to *******igh to fly the flag for the gamers and Helen keeps the series interesting. I know who has given me the most entertainment, do you.

[Ellen]

Helen might have gone if not for the pass to the final, Ashleigh might also have gone if it had not been for the twists. They both needed each other in the house and help with the twists to be where they are now.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s not ‘equal’ though Joey and never will be unless she had been eligible to be nominated at some point like all other housemates were, regardless of twists or ‘power’..it was never meant to be equal though when BB gave it out, it was always meant to set that person apart and make them unique...I never said it was her fault, she didn’t choose to be chosen by Pauline but it’s still had the same result regardless of making her a ‘unique’ housemate as no one ever before on BB has been exempt form nomination/eviction for the entire series...what is helen’s responsibility though are the flaws in her character that to some/many and me included, make her quite unlikable as a person ...as are Ashleigh’s flaws as well and all other housemates and we all see those differently as well...but in terms of ‘all being equal/a level playing field’ so to speak, for me and as seen in this thread..lots of other people, Ashleigh is ‘top female’ because she and also by no fault of her own has experienced everything that is BB...nomination/eviction is one of the things that the housemates must hate most, the unpleasant thing part of rejection they have to go through at some point unless they’re that one winner and for Helen..when she’s so critical ofwho nominated who etc and why, she should have empathy for that and how hard it’s been for housemates to make these decisions and been the ones to ‘suffer’ from these decisions and in a way, it’s ok also for her fans in general to be critical of the fans of other housemates and how frustrated they have got by all these twists and turns etc and say..oh you wouldn’t say that if it was Helen..but they’ve also not been supporting a housemate where there was any fear of an eviction of that housemate and we all know from other years and no exemptions, how ‘excitable’....we get about that and worrying that our housemate will go....I will say also though Joey that it’s not just because it’s Helen, I would have said that the housemate has not had the full experience no matter who it was and it’s even what Helen knows and has said herself...she will outstay Ashleigh unless Ashleigh reaches the final and then she may not but for me Ashleigh is the ‘top female’ because she reached that stage with the possibility of eviction most weeks....

How can she be nominated if BB made the scenario that someone had to get a free pass to the final.
She didn't make the rules, she has done all within the rules,even getting warned for bad behaviour but settling down after that.

She has done everything that BB has told her to and expects her to,she cannot be nominated because of that pass, she cannot then be nominated because of the scenario BB brought into play.
So from the scenario that BB themselves set up, she is doing everything expected of her so how she can 'not' be an equal housemate as to status.

Would you have refused the free pass from Pauline, I certainly wouldn't have,even if I had been able to.
However, then being in that position I would 100% for sure not rate myself any less a housemate than the other housemates for having the pass either.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How can she be nominated if BB made the scenario that someone had to get a free pass to the final.
She didn't make the rules, she has done all within the rules,even getting warned for bad behaviour but settling down after that.

She has done everything that BB has told her to and expects her to,she cannot be nominated because of that pass, she cannot then be nominated because of the scenario BB brought into play.
So from the scenario that BB themselves set up, she is doing everything expected of her so how she can 'not' be an equal housemate as to status.

Would you have refused the free pass from Pauline, I certainly wouldn't have,even if I had been able to.
However, then being in that position I would 100% for sure not rate myself any less a housemate than the other housemates for having the pass either.

..I think we're at cross purposes here Joey, I have never said that Helen having the pass was anything other than a decision made by BB to have Pauline choose someone as the whole series has been the power house and giving someone that pass was always meant to be an advantage and something different to see how that panned out and an 'advantage' can never be an 'equal' and that's what I mean and what the OP means and isn't blaming Helen as such for having the pass but the results of having it has meant that they are 'above' and exempt one crucial BB element which is to face the possibility of nomination and eviction which is a fact of having the pass and not putting blame on the person having it...

[poppsywoppsy]

I don't find Helen entertaining at all, more a malevolent prescience which others have to creep around or get shouted at and humiliated.

What has she done except moan and call others out. She is just there in the tasks, has no discernable talents and has a pass to the final which keeps her there no matter what. She didn't earn it or do something notable to get it.

She has little humour, but will turn on a sixpence regarding others.

I need something with a lot more to it to be entertaining rather than school playground chanting to stop someone making their point.

[Sophiee]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

That isn't Helen's fault though,I don't care what any of the housemates say, any of them would have loved to have the free pass to the final from Pauline.
Helen is no way my favourite there but she is an equal housemate who got a very early 'perk' in the series,which I think was wrong to be given so early but again that is not her fault.

Asheigh for instance along with the other females, got a power week solely for them where only the guys were going to be up for eviction.
That isn't an equal scenario either.
Ashleigh may well have gone that week had she not then be protected from being up that week too.

Helen has still had to be in the house, do all the tasks and all else BB expects apart from being at the front of the eviction process.
That surely has to be what a free pass is however and should not have her deemed any less a housemate.
Had she chosen to get the pass, fine, however she was given it and not a sinngle housemate I bet would have refused it either had it been given them by Pauline rather than Helen.

Helen has the advantage because someone had to get that pass,Pauline of all of them chose her for it.
Her status as a housemate should not be belittled and brought down because she had it, if she hadn't the pass then someone else would have it.
I don't get the being pilloried for having something that was 'given' to you.

So for me the top female can be a personal choice as to who is liked but Helen and Ashleigh have been there from the start and one having a free pass while the other doesnt to the final,should not in my opinion make one of any higher status than the other.
I don't like Ashleigh, I make no secret of that,Helen is someone I would talk to but not really have anything to do with but for me on a status level they are both equal in that house as to the major females housemates for the time they have been in it.

It isn't Helen's fault at all that she has what you call an 'advantage', therefore her status as an equal housemate cannot be in question just because she has that pass
A pass which in truth, could have been given to any of the original housemates, except Pauline herself who was the one who decided who got it.

I agree with you, just because she has a pass to the finale it makes her no less of a housemate than the others, she's in exactly the same position as the rest of them. somebody could go all series long without being nominated, does that not make them equal to the others then?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I think we're at cross purposes here Joey, I have never said that Helen having the pass was anything other than a decision made by BB to have Pauline choose someone as the whole series has been the power house and giving someone that pass was always meant to be an advantage and something different to see how that panned out and an 'advantage' can never be an 'equal' and that's what I mean and what the OP means and isn't blaming Helen as such for having the pass but the results of having it has meant that they are 'above' and exempt one crucial BB element which is to face the possibility of nomination and eviction which is a fact of having the pass and not putting blame on the person having it...

Exactly Ammi.
Ashleigh is the top original female of the series because all the other females she was on an equal footing with have gone. If a HM has a free pass, no matter if it is Helen or some other female, they are not on an equal footing with the rest of the HM's because of that advantage.
If there was a obstacle race, and one person gets told they can run that race without any obstacles but all the others have to tackle the obstacles, would that be a fair and equal race?
Helen and the other HM's were never on an equal playing field, and Ashleigh is the top girl because she has won the race competing with her equals.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Sophiee

I agree with you, just because she has a pass to the finale it makes her no less of a housemate than the others, she's in exactly the same position as the rest of them. somebody could go all series long without being nominated, does that not make them equal to the others then?

Absolutely Sophiee and thank you so much for getting my point.

BB are the people who were wrong to introduce the free pass,not the person who gave it out or the housemate that got it.
However since it is there, one housemate has had to carry it through.

Of course a housemate can be seen as a top housemate as a 'personal preference' by viewers of liking them but they cannot and should not,in my view, be downgraded as a BB housemate when they are doing everything they are expected to as a housemate by BB in the scenarios that BB have set up.

Really,thank you for seeing that point I am making.

[waterhog]

not only is ashligh the top girl of the series but she will be the right winner.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Sophiee

I agree with you, just because she has a pass to the finale it makes her no less of a housemate than the others, she's in exactly the same position as the rest of them. somebody could go all series long without being nominated, does that not make them equal to the others then?

Helen is NOT in the same position as the rest of them because she CAN'T be nominated.
Someone who goes the whole series without being nominated is in the same position as the rest because they COULD HAVE been nominated, so therefore started out on an equal footing with them.

It does not make Helen a lesser HM, but it makes Ashleigh the top original girl of the ones on an equal footing with her, as she is still there and those WHO COULD BE NOMINATED are gone.

How can you not grasp that concept?

[Yoshi888]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I don't find Helen entertaining at all, more a malevolent prescience which others have to creep around or get shouted at and humiliated.

What has she done except moan and call others out. She is just there in the tasks, has no discernable talents and has a pass to the final which keeps her there no matter what. She didn't earn it or do something notable to get it.

She has little humour, but will turn on a sixpence regarding others.

I need something with a lot more to it to be entertaining rather than school playground chanting to stop someone making their point.

I agree and I don't think she is entertaining in the same way a car crash is not. She should never been allowed a free pass and she would of been out long ago but having said that bb is doing everything it can to keep the vile housemates in the house.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely Sophiee and thank you so much for getting my point.

BB are the people who were wrong to introduce the free pass,not the person who gave it out or the housemate that got it.
However since it is there, one housemate has had to carry it through.

Of course a housemate can be seen as a top housemate as a 'personal preference' by viewers of liking them but they cannot and should not,in my view, be downgraded as a BB housemate when they are doing everything they are expected to as a housemate by BB in the scenarios that BB have set up.

Really,thank you for seeing that point I am making.

But Ashleigh being the top original female HM of all the HM's who could be nominated and are now gone is not a personal preference Joey, it is a FACT.
That purpose of the thread was to celebrate that fact...

[sampvt]

top this top that, makes not a jot of difference who is leading on the first lap of the 1000 meters. its the winning line that counts and your girl is a sprinter not a stayer.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

But Ashleigh being the top original female HM of all the HM's who could be nominated and are now gone is not a personal preference Joey, it is a FACT.
That purpose of the thread was to celebrate that fact...

I don't agree because Helen didn't have the choice to take the free pass so she is no lesser a housemate in my view than any other because of it.

Just as no housemate,whoever got the pass would have been either.
Helen cannot be nominated because of BB not because of herself.
So she has no control over events the same way Ashleigh and all other housemates haven't,she is also fully abiding by all the rules and scenarios laid down by BB as much as Ashleigh is.

We are never going to agree but I doubt this discussion would be as important if Ashleigh had been the one given the free pass.
That would have made not a jot of difference to me and I would,if such a scenario was the case,be arguing still that Ashleigh was no less a housemate than the others if she had got the pass too.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I don't agree because Helen didn't have the choice to take the free pass so she is no lesser a housemate in my view than any other because of it.

Just as no housemate,whoever got the pass would have been either.
Helen cannot be nominated because of BB not because of herself.
So she has no control over events the same way Ashleigh and all other housemates haven't,she is also fully abiding by all the rules and scenarios laid down by BB as much as Ashleigh is.

We are never going to agree but I doubt this discussion would be as important if Ashleigh had been the one given the free pass.
That would have made not a jot of difference to me and I would,if such a scenario was the case,be arguing still that Ashleigh was no less a housemate than the others if she had got the pass too.

Joey, are you winding me up? I can't believe you don't understand what I am saying.
Okay, lets try this - do you agree or disagree that Ashleigh is the only original girl left out of all those who could be nominated? Yes or no?

[sampvt]

Originally Posted by jet

Joey, are you winding me up? I can't believe you don't understand what I am saying.
Okay, lets try this - do you agree or disagree that Ashleigh is the only original girl left out of all those who could be nominated? Yes or no?

Pointed questions will always get results but in the light of day, it matters not a jot who does what or who has this and that. Its a game with rules and twists and they are both subjected to these things.

The winner is the one that gets to be last in the house and Ashleigh wont be last in there, no way, no matter how you perceive her or how many stats you force us to read. Its a game and favs change so quickly. Look at mark in one week he has gone from the lead singer to a roady that shares a bed with a 30 stone tattooed biker called Mavis, hardly top of the pops is he.

Ashleigh will go the same way. Let her have her day because there are not many ahead.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Joey, are you winding me up? I can't believe you don't understand what I am saying.
Okay, lets try this - do you agree or disagree that Ashleigh is the only original girl left out of all those who could be nominated? Yes or no?

Yes but that is only the case because of the BB rules and the scenario they put in place, so therefore, since it is not the housemate's fault who has the free pass, she cannot in any way be fairly classed to be a lesser housemate.
I cannot believe you, who are usually fair, also don't see that major fact.

This is BB created, not created by Helen or any other housemate, she is only doing as she is told and expected to do.
It makes them both equal housemates,the only difference being that by BB rules in this series, one can be nominated and the other cannot.
It makes neither a lesser or better housemate.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Yes but that is only the case because of the BB rules and the scenario they put in place, so therefore, since it is not the housemate's fault who has the free pass, she cannot in any way be fairly classed to be a lesser housemate.
I cannot believe you, who are usually fair, also don't see that major fact.

This is BB created, not created by Helen or any other housemate, she is only doing as she is told and expected to do.
It makes them both equal housemates,the only difference being that by BB rules in this series, one can be nominated and the other cannot.
It makes neither a lesser or better housemate.

If you read my previous posts you would know I have already said Helen is not a lesser HM because she got the free pass and it would be the same no matter who got it. I have never said it is her fault, NEVER.

But you said yes, and have agreed that Ashleigh is the top original HM left of those who could be nominated, and as that was the subject of the thread, I don't know why it took so long to get there.

[sampvt]

Jet you seem to be trying to corner someone into admitting what we are all aware of just to gain brownie points. Its not apples and apples you are talking about.

[jet]

Originally Posted by sampvt

Pointed questions will always get results but in the light of day, it matters not a jot who does what or who has this and that. Its a game with rules and twists and they are both subjected to these things.

The winner is the one that gets to be last in the house and Ashleigh wont be last in there, no way, no matter how you perceive her or how many stats you force us to read. Its a game and favs change so quickly. Look at mark in one week he has gone from the lead singer to a roady that shares a bed with a 30 stone tattooed biker called Mavis, hardly top of the pops is he.

Ashleigh will go the same way. Let her have her day because there are not many ahead.

But this thread isn't about who will win, it's about Ashleigh being the top original female out of those who could be nominated. How many times do I have to say it?