[user104658]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker Sweet

The reason I asked you that marsh is when those two 10 year olds killed James Bulger,there were some that said they didn't know what they were doing they were only 10,do you believe that train of thought? as it was said they had got ideas from the movie Chucky,so were they influenced or not ? and were they old enough to understand,I have my own views but would like yours. By the way no one likes gaming more than me,especially the Tombraider games,but even I have been known to throw the control and call her a stupid cow,LOL,so they do get in your head.

I know you're asking Marsh but my opinion on this is that it's utter BS that they didn't know what they were doing was wrong. I know that I have a just turned 8 year old who doesn't care at all about violence on screen but would never dream of hurting another child - much less a child younger than her - and I'm fairly confident that all of her friends the same age are exact the same. Of course they know the difference and the idea that they did it because of watching "Chucky" is just as ridiculous as the notion that a violent game can be the cause of a child or teenager turning to real violence. When it comes to Mrs right down to the very basics of that case... From what I've read I believe that Thompson quite probably had (has) some sort of psychopathy or at least extreme sociopathy and that was essentially what lead to that horrific crime. Most people seem to think of Venables as the ringleader but if you look into their behaviour immediately after the crime and accounts of how they were in the years afterwards, I highly doubt that is the case.

But yes, anyway, no it wasn't a film that caused them to do what they did, it all scapegoating, the same as with gaming. Healthy, well adjusted people know the difference, know it early (I would say aged 5 or 6, max) and can't be turned to violence by stories and games.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I do think it's a problem with competitive attitudes rather than with the games themselves. When you fail in single player games, it's no one's fault but your own but when people lose in competitive games against other people they can place the blame at someone else's door.

That's not exclusive to video games, nor is it a problem that video games have created.

[Amy Jade]

I grew up watching horror movies and playing violent video games, my older step brother had me watching things like Evil Dead, Scream and Halloween and playing Grand Theft Auto and Resident Evil with him.

I am now studying to be a nurse and I go and vaulenteer at an animal sanctuary when I can as well as owning my own well looked after dog and horse. I could never hurt a person or animal intentionally and I grew up watching the weirdest most violent ****.

If you are capeable of harming others then you just are, a movie or video game doesn't create killers.

[Amy Jade]

Pretty sure it was proved Jon Venables had never seen Child's Play. Those two are just sick in the head, you could have put them infront of My Little Pony and they would have still been evil.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Mrs Deagle

Pretty sure it was proved Jon Venables had never seen Child's Play. Those two are just sick in the head, you could have put them infront of My Little Pony and they would have still been evil.

Well... To be fair... I've listened in on my youngest with her My Little Pony toys and I have concluded that PinkiePie is in fact an avatar of Satan himself. She seems to believe so, anyway. The sheer disdain she has for that specific pony ...

[Tom4784]

The killers of Jamie Bulger would have committed the act regardless of whether or not they played a game or watched a film. They had the potential for killing long before they apparently watched Chucky.

If gaming truly could make someone violent then we would have seen a noticeable pattern emerge by now given that it's been over twenty years since violent video games came to prominence but not such pattern exists. Games (and anything else in the world) can act as a trigger for a disturbed individual but they don't create them. Blaming a trigger is pointless.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The killers of Jamie Bulger would have committed the act regardless of whether or not they played a game or watched a film. They had the potential for killing long before they apparently watched Chucky.

If gaming truly could make someone violent then we would have seen a noticeable pattern emerge by now given that it's been over twenty years since violent video games came to prominence but not such pattern exists. Games (and anything else in the world) can act as a trigger for a disturbed individual but they don't create them. Blaming a trigger is pointless.

I agree to a certain extent,what I am saying is they CAN have an influence on certain kids, it's not black and white,there are shades of grey here,didn't the killers in Columbine copy something they had seen ? of course normal people can play them with no effect but not everyone is 'normal' I think that is what it alludes to,the similarities in the Bulger case was the train track,the blue paint and the batteries.but I agree in the fact they would have killed video or not in this case.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker Sweet

I agree to a certain extent,what I am saying is they CAN have an influence on certain kids, it's not black and white,there are shades of grey here,didn't the killers in Columbine copy something they had seen ? of course normal people can play them with no effect but not everyone is 'normal' I think that is what it alludes to,the similarities in the Bulger case was the train track,the blue paint and the batteries.but I agree in the fact they would have killed video or not in this case.

That's a trigger though, you can't blame a trigger since anything and nothing can be a trigger for violence when it comes to violent people. They could have copied something they saw on TV or read in a book but that doesn't mean we scapegoat books or TV.

The Columbine killers were disturbed individuals that would have done what they did regardless of if they played Doom or not. It wasn't a game that put them on that path.

I remember reading a while back that psychopaths and the like often feel like the world around them isn't real and that's why they do what they do without a conscience because to them, they aren't hurting something that's alive, they're killing something that isn't real. I think any form of media could be dangerous to an individual like that because they can't distinguish between reality and their delusions. That's where things become dangerous, as long as a person understands the difference between reality and fiction then I don't think a game can affect a normal person in a lasting way (obviously like a film, games can be emotional or promote fear but that's VERY short term, just like a film would).

It's more important to look at why killers kill and to learn what the signs and events were that led to them killing then it is to scapegoat their actions. It's why I get quite passionate on this subject. The Helen Lovejoys of the world that think games are a corrupting force are just providing excuses for killers, it doesn't help anyone to blame films, games or music for someone's actions.

[DemolitionRed]

There is no blanket, 'yes it can affect a child' or 'no it can't affect a child'.

We know, for example, that a child who regularly witnesses violence within their family can become desensitized to violence. Its the same for adults. Morbid facination can start quite innocently but when a person keeps looking for violent content on places like YouTube, its usually because they are searching for an emotion but the more they watch, the less they feel because they are desensitizing themselves.

We know children learn from observing the things around them. We also know that the make believe is an important part of childhood development. If a child plays with a doll and pretends to be a mother they are using their imagination to be that mother. Therefore, that Childs reality whilst playing that game is that of a mother and not a child. Although most children start to move away from imaginary play fairly early, children with ADHD and children who lack emotional maturity can carry on playing alternative reality games up to and around the age of 10. For these children, computer games can be a real asset, so long as we monitor what the content is. No 10 year old should be playing computer games above the rating for that age because its content has been deemed not suitable.
A child who does play adult content games may be absolutely fine but that could depend on their environment, the context, the guidance they receive from their parents and it could depend on the emotional maturity of that child.

[Withano]

Not to state the obvious, but you would have to be mentally unwell to be influenced into murder by anyone or anything, that goes for children and adults.

Several millions have watched Chuckie and played GTA. Its mathematically impossible to claim that this is the reason for any murder. I think people just feel more comfortable when theres something to physically blame.

[Cherie]

I do believe it's nature over nurture if someone turns out to be evil, that said I don't thing members can point to themselves as evidence of children not being influenced, as it is a very individual thing

[Kizzy]

I' going to use that word.... trigger.

With psychopathy there has to be an event or series of events that turns on this part of the brain within the psychopath.

Could these games do it?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I' going to use that word.... trigger.

With psychopathy there has to be an event or series of events that turns on this part of the brain within the psychopath.

Could these games do it?

Does there? I wouldn't have thought so really. I would say its always there. Some chose to act on it (maybe for superficial reasons..most common seems to be rejection by a romantic partner) and some don't. I genuinely cannot imagine how playing a violent videogame could be a 'trigger'

I am apparently a sociopath. Which means (according to the internet and searches I have done since having this revealed to me) I could have psychopathic tendencies. But I watch endless gory films and such and have never felt the urge to hurt someone badly. I know I could hurt someone badly and feel no guilt (I have hurt people 'not badly' and felt no guilt, I have done some very bad things and not felt guilt too, I am very manipulative also when I want to be and never feel bad for that) as I have thought about it a lot and how I would actually take it and have come to the conclusion that I could actually kill someone and not care at all. All I would care about is the possibility of getting caught and going to prison. But still, as I said I watch a ridiculous amount of gory films, I watch real beheadings and such on the net, and still never this 'trigger' has happened to me. Hmm. Though it does concern me a lot that I have thought enough into it to come to the conclusion that I could kill without regret.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Does there? I wouldn't have thought so really. I would say its always there. Some chose to act on it (maybe for superficial reasons..most common seems to be rejection by a romantic partner) and some don't. I genuinely cannot imagine how playing a violent videogame could be a 'trigger'

I am apparently a sociopath. Which means (according to the internet and searches I have done since having this revealed to me) I could have psychopathic tendencies. But I watch endless gory films and such and have never felt the urge to hurt someone badly. I know I could hurt someone badly and feel no guilt (I have hurt people 'not badly' and felt no guilt, I have done some very bad things and not felt guilt too, I am very manipulative also when I want to be and never feel bad for that) as I have thought about it a lot and how I would actually take it and have come to the conclusion that I could actually kill someone and not care at all. All I would care about is the possibility of getting caught and going to prison. But still, as I said I watch a ridiculous amount of gory films, I watch real beheadings and such on the net, and still never this 'trigger' has happened to me. Hmm. Though it does concern me a lot that I have thought enough into it to come to the conclusion that I could kill without regret.

This neuroscientist was shocked to discover he was... as he had no idea, he could only assume that due to to his life experiences he hadn't been 'triggered'.
Unless you do kill someone then I guess being a psychopath is nothing to be ashamed of?

I can't watch beheadings or anything, gory films terrify me and yet faced with a real life situation involving serious injury doesn't phase me at all.
I identify with the manipulative and charismatic part I suppose.
The most telling being how I need to 'rest' after being around people.... it's just so draining.

If I'm being perfectly honest I wouldn't trust myself to act rationally and revenge for major slights was sweet, as I've joked before I don't know how my ex is still alive... he must have a cast iron stomach. That was for hitting my son, I remember it as clear as day it was like a switch, all the love I had for him vanished in an instant and I just wanted him dead.

Too much mario cart 64 maybe? haha!

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...f-a-psychopath

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

This neuroscientist was shocked to discover he was... as he had no idea, he could only assume that due to to his life experiences he hadn't been 'triggered'.
Unless you do kill someone then I guess being a psychopath is nothing to be ashamed of?

I can't watch beheadings or anything, gory films terrify me and yet faced with a real life situation involving serious injury doesn't phase me at all.
I identify with the manipulative and charismatic part I suppose.
The most telling being how I need to 'rest' after being around people.... it's just so draining.

If I'm being perfectly honest I wouldn't trust myself to act rationally and revenge for major slights was sweet, as I've joked before I don't know how my ex is still alive... he must have a cast iron stomach. That was for hitting my son, I remember it as clear as day it was like a switch, all the love I had for him vanished in an instant and I just wanted him dead.

Too much mario cart 64 maybe? haha!

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...f-a-psychopath

From that article I searched for this hare psychopathy checklist..as the wiki link didn't have the actual questions. I found this

http://uk.businessinsider.com/hare-p...ficial-charm-1

And I score 17/20 on it

So thats scary.

So maybe psychopath instead of sociopath. Which is nice...

Only ones that don't apply to me are
Do you have a grandiose sense of self-worth? (though I do very often feel that I should have more than I have, even from not working for it...so maybe?)
Have you had many short-term "marital" relationships?
Do you have a "parasitic lifestyle"? (though this one does kind of apply to me at the moment due to illness. But when I am not ill its a no so I don't think its right to apply this one for sake of the test)

One of the comments on the guardian link is interesting to me 'I've often wondered if psychopathy could not be treated with MDMA (ecstasy), a drug renowned for massively increasing empathy.'. As my own experiences with MDMA made me feel like a complete different person, which is why I was so heavily into it as a teenager as it was so...alien to me.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Does there? I wouldn't have thought so really. I would say its always there. Some chose to act on it (maybe for superficial reasons..most common seems to be rejection by a romantic partner) and some don't. I genuinely cannot imagine how playing a violent videogame could be a 'trigger'

I am apparently a sociopath. Which means (according to the internet and searches I have done since having this revealed to me) I could have psychopathic tendencies. But I watch endless gory films and such and have never felt the urge to hurt someone badly. I know I could hurt someone badly and feel no guilt (I have hurt people 'not badly' and felt no guilt, I have done some very bad things and not felt guilt too, I am very manipulative also when I want to be and never feel bad for that) as I have thought about it a lot and how I would actually take it and have come to the conclusion that I could actually kill someone and not care at all. All I would care about is the possibility of getting caught and going to prison. But still, as I said I watch a ridiculous amount of gory films, I watch real beheadings and such on the net, and still never this 'trigger' has happened to me. Hmm. Though it does concern me a lot that I have thought enough into it to come to the conclusion that I could kill without regret.

I've got to go with what Kizzy says here. Its not always there. Whilst its true that sociopathy/psychopathy is usually predisposed to the gene pool, its not always the case. Frontal lobe injuries often cause the recovered person to show sociopathic traits that weren't previously there.

But back to being born with sociopathic genes. Modern thinking say it’s the environment that is often the catalyst that nurtures those genes. Therefore, a child born with a sociopathic genes, brought up in a healthy environment is less likely to exhibit traits as an adult but a child brought up in an abusive environment is more likely to go through the ripple effect that can lead to psychopathic behavior.

Its interesting what you say about your self diagnosis. There are a lot of people with sociopathic traits amongst us but don’t have enough traits to have a diagnosis and are therefore not sociopaths.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I' going to use that word.... trigger.

With psychopathy there has to be an event or series of events that turns on this part of the brain within the psychopath.

Could these games do it?

Well.. anything hypothetically could do it. Tripping on a twig could hypothetically do it, but lets not ban oxygen and water. Theres a long line of issues that would need to occur before anyone attempts to murder.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I' going to use that word.... trigger.

With psychopathy there has to be an event or series of events that turns on this part of the brain within the psychopath.

Could these games do it?

That's probably the issue here.

There's a world of difference between a trigger and a cause.

A trigger sets off something already wrong, and can come from a multitude of things. A cause is something different and suggests something like a video game can cause a mentally healthy person to change.

I believe they can trigger, like many things in life can trigger unwell people to do irrational and violent things. I don't believe they're a cause in any way shape or form.

Out of the millions upon millions of people who have watched Chuckie of all ages and backgrounds, 2 kids using it as inspiration for the despicable acts they'd have committed with or without it is no evidence that horror movies or video games cause these things.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Mariah_Carey

That's probably the issue here.

There's a world of difference between a trigger and a cause.

A trigger sets off something already wrong, and can come from a multitude of things. A cause is something different and suggests something like a video game can cause a mentally healthy person to change.

I believe they can trigger, like many things in life can trigger unwell people to do irrational and violent things. I don't believe they're a cause in any way shape or form.

Out of the millions upon millions of people who have watched Chuckie of all ages and backgrounds, 2 kids using it as inspiration for the despicable acts they'd have committed with or without it is no evidence that horror movies or video games cause these things.

I did't put forward the chuckie analogy.

Could it not be a trigger for those who do have issues and a cause for those who don't?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I did't put forward the chuckie analogy.

Could it not be a trigger for those who do have issues and a cause for those who don't?

I genuinely do not believe that playing violent videogames can turn an otherwise normal person into a killer. I really don't. Is this what you mean by this?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I did't put forward the chuckie analogy.

Could it not be a trigger for those who do have issues and a cause for those who don't?

I never said you did. I used the point about triggers vs cause to add my thoughts to the threads conversation which included the Bulger case.

In answer to your question, no I don't think so. As I've never come across any such crimes committed by people without issues and I've never come across anyone nor have any studies highlighted an individual who became mentally unbalanced due to a video game, movie or other.

I agree with Vicky on the Scream quote.
Movies and games might give psychos ideas but they were a psycho beforehand. Bulger's killers were apparently influenced by Chucky, if that film didn't exist they'd have used other methods. Chucky didn't make them kill.

It's like the other point someone made about kids play fighting. Kids use their imaginations and play make believe anyway. So if they didn't have the idea from watching TV to play "Power Rangers" for example, they'd be messing about and playing something of their own creation.

The same goes for psychos IMO.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Christmas treeza

I did't put forward the chuckie analogy.

Could it not be a trigger for those who do have issues and a cause for those who don't?

No game, film, book, song, TV show etc can make someone a killer, they can (like all things) can TRIGGER violent behavior in violent individuals but they are never the cause of violent incidents.

Blaming video games for violent behavior is essentially vindicating violent people for their actions.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

No game, film, book, song, TV show etc can make someone a killer, they can (like all things) can TRIGGER violent behavior in violent individuals but they are never the cause of violent incidents.

Blaming video games for violent behavior is essentially vindicating violent people for their actions.

Well we won't go into that whole cause and effect debate again

[Vicky.]

I tell a lie actually. I once did feel an urge to murder, a serious one, not a 'I will bloody kill them' passing thought. When it was revealed my little brother had been abused by an 18 year old when I was 16. I genuinely was going to kill him and I did not give a **** at all that his family would be grieving and such. The only thing that managed to stop me was my parents saying about me going to prison. I think that scared them a bit, that no 'emotional' reasoning with me worked, and only bringing up a possible consequence for myself helped. And even then I went into how I would effectively 'hide' what I had done and maybe try to frame someone else if I could not make it out to be an accident.

I am very good at 'faking' guilt for stuff. I learnt that as a young child. I did know deep down that I was nothing like my siblings or parents.

It feels odd to finally get this out properly..as the only person I can speak about properly about this is my psychiatrist. And I only ended up seeing her because a gambing counselor once mentioned to me that from what I said to her, it sounded like I was a sociopath :S It worried me a lot as I was of the opinion that sociopaths were naturally really horrible people (also I did not meet the 'requirements' completely, as I do have emotions when my children/family are involved, so not totally emotionless), but it turns out thats not necessarily the case at all. And that a lot of people like me can effectively act 'normal' pretty easily.

Though I do admit, I am not normal at all and when I want to, I can manipulate most situations into my chosen conclusion with literally no thought at all to how it will affect anyone else. As an example I have purposely split up long term relationships as it was convenient for me to do so. And did not care at all when I saw how sad both parties were because of my actions. That kind of thing. I genuinely do not care about the consequences for anyone other than myself. I can pretend to. But I don't. I cannot 'empathize'. Again, I have tried, but I can't. I can pretend to pretty convincingly though.

I know this is making me out to be absolutely horrendous. Not even sure why I have gone so much into this on here as its not really relevant at all. But yeah, I don't believe a videogame could be a trigger.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I tell a lie actually. I once did feel an urge to murder, a serious one, not a 'I will bloody kill them' passing thought. When it was revealed my little brother had been abused by an 18 year old when I was 16. I genuinely was going to kill him and I did not give a **** at all that his family would be grieving and such. The only thing that managed to stop me was my parents saying about me going to prison. I think that scared them a bit, that no 'emotional' reasoning with me worked, and only bringing up a possible consequence for myself helped. And even then I went into how I would effectively 'hide' what I had done and maybe try to frame someone else if I could not make it out to be an accident.

I am very good at 'faking' guilt for stuff. I learnt that as a young child. I did know deep down that I was nothing like my siblings or parents.

It feels odd to finally get this out properly..as the only person I can speak about properly about this is my psychiatrist. And I only ended up seeing her because a gambing counselor once mentioned to me that from what I said to her, it sounded like I was a sociopath :S It worried me a lot as I was of the opinion that sociopaths were naturally really horrible people (also I did not meet the 'requirements' completely, as I do have emotions when my children/family are involved, so not totally emotionless), but it turns out thats not necessarily the case at all. And that a lot of people like me can effectively act 'normal' pretty easily.

Though I do admit, I am not normal at all and when I want to, I can manipulate most situations into my chosen conclusion with literally no thought at all to how it will affect anyone else. As an example I have purposely split up long term relationships as it was convenient for me to do so. And did not care at all when I saw how sad both parties were because of my actions. That kind of thing. I genuinely do not care about the consequences for anyone other than myself. I can pretend to. But I don't. I cannot 'empathize'. Again, I have tried, but I can't. I can pretend to pretty convincingly though.

I know this is making me out to be absolutely horrendous. Not even sure why I have gone so much into this on here as its not really relevant at all. But yeah, I don't believe a videogame could be a trigger.

It's good to get it out Vicky....

That'll be £250 please, see you next Sunday for our next session?