[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[The next United Kingdom general election
is Officially scheduled to be held on Thursday 2 May 2024]

"Ministers have vowed that billions in extra NHS funding
would clear the Covid backlog by 2025"


Once again
going over the General Election date is wrong

[Withano]

People voted Tories what did they expect lol

[arista]

Originally Posted by Withano

People voted Tories what did they expect lol

Yes that's due to Jeremy Corbyn
though

[arista]

Yesterday,
Randy Matt Hancock
got jeers and loads of Laughs

[arista]

[joeysteele]

Sajid Javid was making hard work of selling this policy this morning.

It doesn't appear that much will alter in the next 3 years as to social care.
Then he cannot even give an idea of the distribution of the extra funding from tax rises, to then be given to social care.

According to the NHS it may take, depending even further on issues around covid, it may take at least 5 years to get on top of the backlog of delayed and other arising conditions.
It could even need up to 10 years.

So just when will the real changes to social care be also even starting to happen.
As it seems only a small proportion of the raised tax funding, will be initially put into social care.

Javid was in fact rather hopeless and didn't seem to have a clue himself.
So is there a real urgent plan actually ready on social care, or is this a more cosmetic exercise ONLY.

[arista]

"Sajid Javid was making hard work of selling this policy this morning."


Yes Health Secretary
and he was the money man.

[arista]

BBCnewsHD is Stuck on Live Parliament for some time now
Long Debate before the Vote


SkyNewsHD interviewing the Manchester Mayor

GBnewsHD Scotland Covid Brief.

[arista]

[arista]

They are voting now

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

They are voting now

It will pass.
The backbenchers unhappy say much before the debates..
Then just clam up and support the bills once the crunch comes.

[Beso]

The vote is late

[Beso]

Too many labour mps have wanted this in the past for it not to pass.

[arista]

Ayes :319

No: 248

They have Won.


https://news.sky.com/story/mps-back-...-jobs-12402365

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]

[joeysteele]

No surprise at all.
However I'm pleased Labour in the end voted against it.
Because quite frankly this isn't going to help the crisis of social care, for likely many years in the future not just the next 3.

Yes, more funds are needed, so are the staff needed too.
We are years off getting any staffing needed.

This is necessary to be looked at.
Andy Burnham when Health secretary was working with the Lib Dems in 2009/10.
On an agreed and better plan for social care.
He also wanted the Conservative party in those talks for agreement but they walked away.

I was stunned in Coalition, the Lib Dems didn't push hard to get those social care plans started again and done then.

Nothing has been done for the last 11 years since the Coalition came to power.

I would support the really dealing with the care sector crisis.
However as this has unravelled more.
This plan for the foreseeable future does nothing really effective as to social care.

It raises money which will help the NHS a fair bit.
While not eradicating even the problems there still.

Health and care are 2 vital parts of living.
It has to be paid for and by all means possible.
I don't mind paying more in this policy.

However it's not enough, plus there seems a lot short on detail.
Hence a quick announcement in parliament, then a snap vote the day after.

Thereby erasing any properly based chance of scrutiny.
The trademark of this particular PM sadly.

However let's see what and IF anything really changes.
Because I don't think this policy goes far enough or will do enough at all.
Very sadly for those needing help right now desperately as to social care needs.

[bots]

to me it shows labour hypocrisy at its fullest. Complain that the tories arent spending enough on health and then vote against a tax rise for that very purpose. They only look foolish and it will come back to haunt them

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

to me it shows labour hypocrisy at its fullest. Complain that the tories arent spending enough on health and then vote against a tax rise for that very purpose. They only look foolish and it will come back to haunt them

In opposition you have to look at all aspects of a policy.
Sadly in my view, Labour MPs are getting REALLY strong feelings and anger from their constituents at the rise of NI.

I wonder did you condemn the Cons when Labour were in government, when the Cons didn't support near anything Labour did.

The clue is in the title the opposition.

Labour would have raised the funds differently, they wouldn't have included NI.
Now you may scoff at that position.

However unless you wholly support a whole listing of a policy you cannot support it.
Nor shouldn't.

Labour would not want to stop more funding for the health service.
So it's not hypocrisy at all.

I liked this plan when it was announced however there's a growing discontent now at how the plan of raised taxing is to be implemented.
As it unfurls too, it really seems unlikely to make a major difference or only to do so in around 10 years or more time.

Labour had to once the government put the health and social care policy tied in with at the same time for the same vote, with the ways of increasing taxation.

Were the Con MPs who voted against this or abstained hypocrites too.

No, they were not.

What was needed here, was an agreed policy and the fairest and proportionate way to raise the funding too.
Agreed in consultation with the necessary care organisations and other political Parties too.
To stop this being a political.foirball still.

It's this PM and your government who have created this, it now seems, mish mash of a policy.
Calling it massive change to social care, where in fact only a small part of extra funding goes direct to social care anyhow.

It's not at all hypocritical for near all the other Parties, not just Labour to not approve of that, or to vote against the policy and the financial raising elements being combined together for the vote.

He's got over 360 MPs.
This only got 319 votes
Seems on your charge, he has a lot of hypocrites on his own side then too.
Labour only has around 200 MPs.
There were 248 votes against this.
So it seems not only Labour should be charged by Cons of being hypocrites.

[user104658]

It hits us for a not-insignificant amount which grates a bit. Again it honestly wouldn't and I'd even pay more if I thought for a second it was actually going to go towards world-class health and social care but ... I will be legitimately shocked if anything actually improves at all.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It hits us for a not-insignificant amount which grates a bit. Again it honestly wouldn't and I'd even pay more if I thought for a second it was actually going to go towards world-class health and social care but ... I will be legitimately shocked if anything actually improves at all.

Me too as to your last line TS.

I hope things will improve however the state all is in right now it's massive improvement needed.

I'll happily myself pay more but I am aware for many other people the increase in NI will hit.
Inflation, rising energy costs now an increase in NI too will leave many even worse off.

However he has the green light to raise the extra funding this way.

You yourself, however raised last week, the need of far more staffing levels.
That's not going to happen overnight, not likely to be enough.

It's stated only 15% of the raised levy will go direct to the social care sector.
Which really is a drop in the ocean as to the social care sector needs.

This policy of what detail we know of it.
Doesn't seem like it will overall change much for the better.
So like yourself, I'll be surprised if much improves at all.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

to me it shows labour hypocrisy at its fullest. Complain that the tories arent spending enough on health and then vote against a tax rise for that very purpose. They only look foolish and it will come back to haunt them

A decade of austerity, followed by a costly brexit, followed by covid. Don't you think the uber-wealthy, who've made an absolute killing during the last couple of years, should be paying for it, instead of putting more on the backs of working people?

Tories levying more tax on the working poor, the working class, and middle classes is not a problem in your mind, but rejecting this proposal will come back to haunt labour for not falling into step with the tories?

Not saying you're wrong, I just don't get why anyone would want to live in a world where it was true.