[Big Brother Fan]

Not really

[Jessica.]

In Irish 'th' is silent so not really strange.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Oooo_get_her

Anglo-Saxon dialects can be traced back to about 450AD.



Old English is a very clearly Germanic language (or rather group of close dialects that are referred to as a language for the sake of clarity). You are completely right about the other influences as it evolved into Middle English and on to Modern.

I know Wiki can be a bit hit and miss but the article on Old English is OK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English

The thing is, the Anglo-Saxon language is not what we have today as English. What we have is what the natives, left over from all that raping and pillaging, put together.
And certain influences have stayed stronger in some areas. The Geordies are said to be derived from Viking influence for example.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

In Irish 'th' is silent so not really strange.

What language do people speak, write, read in Ireland?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

What language do people speak, write, read in Ireland?

We're talking about a persons name ffs I would expect someone to call me by my name no matter what country I was in, just as I would call any foreign person living in Ireland by their name the way they pronounce it

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

What language do people speak, write, read in Ireland?

Mainly English but there are areas that are Irish speaking, what's your point?

[StGeorge]

The funny thing is, i happen to like the sound of Cay-oi-me more than Keeva.

And Niamh, before you told me yours is pronounced as Neve, i thought it was Nee-am, and i actually like the sound of that.

But thanks for the heads up today. Im off now so chat later.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

We're talking about a persons name ffs I would expect someone to call me by my name no matter what country I was in, just as I would call any foreign person living in Ireland by their name the way they pronounce it

No.
The pronunciation is by the hosts and not the foreigner. I experience this all the time and I am perfectly happy to accept and expect it. Combahair needs to realize that too.

I notice you are using English here. Does everyone in southern Ireland speak English?

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

No.
The pronunciation is by the hosts and not the foreigner. I experience this all the time and I am perfectly happy to accept and expect it. Combahair needs to realize that too.

I notice you are using English here. Does everyone in southern Ireland speak English?

There is no such thing as southern Ireland, we speak English because our ancestors were forced to.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

No.
The pronunciation is by the hosts and not the foreigner. I experience this all the time and I am perfectly happy to accept and expect it. Combahair needs to realize that too.

I notice you are using English here. Does everyone in southern Ireland speak English?

don't be ridiculous, you call someone by their name no matter what country they're in! Why am I even bothering talking to you, I don't know

and I already answered your last question

[Oooo_get_her]

Originally Posted by Big Brother Fan

Anglo Saxon is nothing like English btw

But it is its direct ancestor.

Originally Posted by StGeorge

The thing is, the Anglo-Saxon language is not what we have today as English.

I didn't say it was - but it the original language that took on the other influences and evolved slowly into what we have today.

Originally Posted by StGeorge

What we have is what the natives, left over from all that raping and pillaging, put together.

No - that is not the case. The native Celtic languages did not take on the Anglo-Saxon influence and evolve, they were driven out with the people who spoke them (and carried on their evolution elsewhere) and the natives that remained behind, in servitude, in marriages, etc., spoke the Anglo-Saxon dialects of their masters, husbands, etc..

The raping and pillaging you are thinking of (perhaps) is the Vikings. The Anglo-Saxons settled a large chunk of the British Isles. They didn't come in, take everything and sod off again - they settled and their language settled with them.

Now - the Celtic influence can clearly to be seen to be bleeding into Old English / Anglo-Saxon during that time - but the base language is Anglo-Saxon.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

don't be ridiculous, you call someone by their name no matter what country they're in!

Untrue.
Your name is pronounced by their rules and not yours (the visitor) and this is true around the world. I would know.

You speak English. The language of England. So maybe you should try following its rules.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Untrue.
Your name is pronounced by their rules and not yours (the visitor) and this is true around the world. I would know.

You speak English. The language of England. So maybe you should try following its rules.

Póg mo thón

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Póg mo thón

There ya go. Speak your crazy bog people language and of course be so 'sleepy' you need to tell me about it lol

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Oooo_get_her

No - that is not the case. The native Celtic languages did not take on the Anglo-Saxon influence and evolve, they were driven out with the people who spoke them (and carried on their evolution elsewhere) and the natives that remained behind, in servitude, in marriages, etc., spoke the Anglo-Saxon dialects of their masters, husbands, etc..

The raping and pillaging you are thinking of (perhaps) is the Vikings. The Anglo-Saxons settled a large chunk of the British Isles. They didn't come in, take everything and sod off again - they settled and their language settled with them.

Now - the Celtic influence can clearly to be seen to be bleeding into Old English / Anglo-Saxon during that time - but the base language is Anglo-Saxon.

If as we can ascertain, that the Irish/Celtic language was influenced by the introduction of Latin, then i would say that the Roman influence in the land to become England would also be heavily Latin. So the Celtic language as such at the time the Saxons came was probably not much related to the original natives of the land now known as England. It too was probably an evolved language.
As you say, those natives left behind with the saxons would take up the Germanic influence....which is basically what i said. The other influences from Vikings and Normans also had a massive effect. The Vikings are known to have had a massive settlement and influence in the North East which is how Geordies have evolved. The main Saxon settlements only really established in the middle to south of England. Another influence, funnily enough, was via Scotland and Christianity, which had come to Scotland via Ireland seeing as the Scots are Irish and overtook/influenced the Pics.
English as we know it today has derived from the Saxon as you say but has been massively influenced by Latin and Norman.

At the end of the day, the languages of the peoples of the British Isles have gone through various changes and influences over centuries and centuries, and if you look at what the kids of today in London sound like, then it hasnt stopped evolving yet.

Come back in 100 years and we English speakers will be the minority.lol.

[Orvakki]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

What language do people speak, write, read in Ireland?

Gaelic? I dunno.

[SoFarSoGood282]

It can also be spelt Caoibhe

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Póg mo thón

I take it that doesnt mean love you too.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

I take it that doesnt mean love you too.

of course it is

[Oooo_get_her]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

If as we can ascertain, that the Irish/Celtic language was influenced by the introduction of Latin, then i would say that the Roman influence in the land to become England would also be heavily Latin. So the Celtic language as such at the time the Saxons came was probably not much related to the original natives of the land now known as England. It too was probably an evolved language.

Again no. I can see why you would assume that but Irish and Latin were very separate. The Romans never fully conquered the Celts, but drove them back - so we have pockets of uninfluenced Celtic languages surviving. The Irish clerical men (and Scots and Welsh clerical in Ireland, e.g. St.Patrick himself) spoke both Latin and various forms of Gaelic but did not merge the two. The population at large spoke only the various forms of Gaelic.
Latin was a written language, a scholarly thing and when a word was borrowed into general use it was pronounced as per the Gaelic pronunciation.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...esources/98104

Originally Posted by StGeorge

As you say, those natives left behind with the saxons would take up the Germanic influence....which is basically what i said. The other influences from Vikings and Normans also had a massive effect.

The difference in what is now England, and with the Germanic language spoken there, is the Germanic invaders ruled there, they settled. The British people (Celts) living there had been ruled by the Romans, but not assimilated. When the Angles, Saxons and Jutes came over they settled and assimilated those Celts that remained. The Celtic languages in the Anglo-Saxon ruled kingdoms (Mercia [midlands], East Anglia [as is], Northumbria [up to Hadrian's wall] and Wessex [modern south west excluding Cornwall]) died out. The Latin influence on Old English is very much as a spoken language. A language of trade and negotiation between mostly illiterate people. Therefore the majority of Latin words borrowed into Old English would have preserved the continental pronunciation.

http://www.orbilat.com/Influences_of...d_English.html

Originally Posted by StGeorge

The Vikings are known to have had a massive settlement and influence in the North East which is how Geordies have evolved. The main Saxon settlements only really established in the middle to south of England. Another influence, funnily enough, was via Scotland and Christianity, which had come to Scotland via Ireland seeing as the Scots are Irish and overtook/influenced the Pics.

That's Picts. And while the influences you state are completely true the areas you refer to didn't evolve there languages separately. Yes, there are regional variations of dialect coming from these different influences - but the language now call 'English' has a coherent evolution across the entire geographical region.

Originally Posted by StGeorge

At the end of the day, the languages of the peoples of the British Isles have gone through various changes and influences over centuries and centuries, and if you look at what the kids of today in London sound like, then it hasnt stopped evolving yet.

Come back in 100 years and we English speakers will be the minority.lol.

I agree with the first part - I don't agree with the second. English is the second most widely spoken language on the planet. It is the 3rd most spoken first language and the most spoken second language. It has long since replaced French as the language of diplomacy and I think can safely be considered the lingua franca of this planet (as Mandarin Chinese is more geographically confined).

English is the Latin of the modern age and it will take it a good deal more than a 100 years to be replaced by something else.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LiquidGold

irish spelling is always proper weird! i have to keep checking her name spelling if im going to write about her in this forum . remember orlaith from bb6 but it was pronounced orlah haha

It's not dis similar to what is done in the English language with gh though, shouldn't that be pronounced gu-hu but its pronounced like a W

Though
Although
Borough
Plough etc.

and then you also have words like enough where the gh is pronounced like an F so most countries change the rules a bit not just us!

[lime]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Póg mo thón

:

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

It's not dis similar to what is done in the English language with gh though, shouldn't that be pronounced gu-hu but its pronounced like a W

Though
Although
Borough
Plough etc.

and then you also have words like enough where the gh is pronounced like an F so most countries change the rules a bit not just us!

Thats so true Nianh..English doesnt follow an exact ruling in many of its words and has just been accepted and passed down over the years.

If Enough followed the rule of those other words then it would sound like:

e-no
e-nah
e-now

instead of e-nuff

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Póg mo thón

Thats very similar to a welsh 'sweet nothing' pmsl

[Shasown]

No language ever truly dies out, although the Celtic Language would have gradually been used less and less, common words would have been adopted into the new language, hence the reason for some place names throughout the UK having a Celtic root, an Anglo Saxon root etc. Some of our swear words are Celtic and Saxon based.

The English Language is still evolving and as long as people speak it it always will.