[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I think the type of abuse that happened is very telling and that of an immature adult, all boys basically having the same things jappen to them in almost the identical way....Imo says a lot and makes him guilty imo.

Well Parmy,kids who are abused usually try and stay away from someone who is abusing them, not stay there and keep going back for more, and actually defend him,sorry but not buying it unless proof is oncoming,as for the parents being groomed aswell,sorry don't believe that either,they were probably more interested in what MJ could give them, Jackson was a lot of things but a master manipulator ? I don't think so,but we wont ever know .

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well Parmy,kids who are abused usually try and stay away from someone who is abusing them, not stay there and keep going back for more, and actually defend him.

Sorry Kazanne but this is simply 100% incorrect and shows that you have little if any understanding of the issues surrounding paedophiles and grooming. You're picturing abuse as force. Grooming is not about force. Grooming is when adults convince children that what they're doing is OK, loving, a normal expression of a close connection, but that it should be a secret because others "wouldn't understand".

It is VERY, VERY COMMON for abuse victims to defend their abuser well into adulthood. This is simple fact.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sorry Kazanne but this is simply 100% incorrect and shows that you have little if any understanding of the issues surrounding paedophiles and grooming. You're picturing abuse as force. Grooming is not about force. Grooming is when adults convince children that what they're doing is OK, loving, a normal expression of a close connection, but that it should be a secret because others "wouldn't understand".

It is VERY, VERY COMMON for abuse victims to defend their abuser well into adulthood. This is simple fact.

But you know all about it, right? And everyone who doesn't share your own opinion is wearing blinkers. Looks like you're the one in blinkers, TS, with the greatest respect.

There is no irrefutable evidence or Jackson would have died in Jail.

The people who are now blackening his name, after he's dead of course, accepted HUGE non-disclosure payments. And now they're disclosing, so the first thing that should happen is that they should be sued for the return of those payments.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

But you know all about it, right? And everyone who doesn't share your own opinion is wearing blinkers.

I know enough about it to know that the assertation that "all victims of childhood abuse try to stay away from their attackers and would never defend them" is patently false, yes. Groomed children do "go back for more". Groomed children do often "defend their abusers". This isn't my opinion, it's the facts (and not only that, but the purpose) of grooming.

"Grooming is when someone builds an emotional connection with a child to gain their trust for the purposes of sexual abuse, sexual exploitation or trafficking.

Children and young people can be groomed online or face-to-face, by a stranger or by someone they know - for example a family member, friend or professional.

Groomers may be male or female. They could be any age.

Many children and young people don't understand that they have been groomed or that what has happened is abuse."

This is direct from the NSPCC. But by all means, brand it "just my opinion" if it helps.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sorry Kazanne but this is simply 100% incorrect and shows that you have little if any understanding of the issues surrounding paedophiles and grooming. You're picturing abuse as force. Grooming is not about force. Grooming is when adults convince children that what they're doing is OK, loving, a normal expression of a close connection, but that it should be a secret because others "wouldn't understand".

It is VERY, VERY COMMON for abuse victims to defend their abuser well into adulthood. This is simple fact.

I was abused myself as a child so I think I have an inkling of what I am talking about,so please don't presume I don't have any understanding because I do . I suppose it depends in this case on our own individual thoughts on this and who do we believe,there are also articles on Chandler lying on the internet,depends what you want to believe, this is just one of many. https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/jordan-chandler-lied/

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well Parmy,kids who are abused usually try and stay away from someone who is abusing them, not stay there and keep going back for more, and actually defend him,sorry but not buying it unless proof is oncoming,as for the parents being groomed aswell,sorry don't believe that either,they were probably more interested in what MJ could give them, Jackson was a lot of things but a master manipulator ? I don't think so,but we wont ever know .

Well, tbf, when it comes to whole families being groomed it's not as though that's unheard of.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well Parmy,kids who are abused usually try and stay away from someone who is abusing them, not stay there and keep going back for more, and actually defend him,sorry but not buying it unless proof is oncoming,as for the parents being groomed aswell,sorry don't believe that either,they were probably more interested in what MJ could give them, Jackson was a lot of things but a master manipulator ? I don't think so,but we wont ever know .

First of all you don't ever need to apologise to me..

The remarks about kids staying away from their abusers is a fair point when it is the type of abuse that physically hurts them, this was not that type of abuse..this type of abuse was tender and loving in Michaels head and the kids would have went along with it believing it was Michael showing them love to begin with...as the boys grew older and more wise to what was actually going on they then started distancing themselves from him did they not?


Michael Jackson was a master groomer who found it easy to get away with it for years due to his fame and fortune.....


Ps, TS highlighting the photos that were found by the police at neverland of naked and semi naked boys tips the balance further towards this sick bastards being guilty.... I hope he rots in hell for abusing others after being abused himself..

[Beso]

I'm. Wondering how many kids would have been drugged beforehand mind, ones with no recollection of events.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I'm. Wondering how many kids would have been drugged beforehand mind, ones with no recollection of events.

Objection... supposition.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Livia

Objection... supposition.

Isn't it all.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Isn't it all.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

The man's dead. When he was alive they were happy with their non disclosure payments of million and millions of dollars. Now he's dead they're back for more. How I see it in a nutshell.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

When he was alive they were happy with their non disclosure payments of million and millions of dollars. Now he's dead they're back for more. How I see it in a nutshell.

It was Jordan Chandler who took a non-disclosure payment of millions and he is not involved with this documentary. Neither of the men involved in this documentary received any non-disclosure payment. So this may be "how you see it", but apparently "how you see it" is based on misinformation.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Livia

Abso-bloody-lutely.

The man's dead. When he was alive they were happy with their non disclosure payments of million and millions of dollars. Now he's dead they're back for more. How I see it in a nutshell.

If I was offered millions to say I didn't wank or have him wank me I can honestly say I would take it...then my big mouth would have to tell the truth in later years.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I'm. Wondering how many kids would have been drugged beforehand mind, ones with no recollection of events.

See this is what happens people imagining stuff and adding to the falsehoods, Chinese whispers and people believing it all, it makes me more determined to stick with what the courts said.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

See this is what happens people imagining stuff and adding to the falsehoods, Chinese whispers and people believing it all, it makes me more determined to stick with what the courts said.

The sleepovers and bed sharing are documented facts though. Even if you put all other aspects aside, a normal adult wouldn't conceive of doing something like that ... not in a million years.

If TS were to put an advert in his local paper saying children invited for sleepovers with adult. Free icecreams provided ..... how long do you think it would take the police to come calling

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

See this is what happens people imagining stuff and adding to the falsehoods, Chinese whispers and people believing it all, it makes me more determined to stick with what the courts said.

Kids are saying they were given drugs by Michael though, I am intitled to wonder about the amount that were drugged at bedtime considering the amount of kids he had stay over through the years.

[Ramsay]

Abducted in plain sight is a perfect example of the type of grooming TS is on about. That little girl kept going back to B because she thought he loved her

[Niamh.]

My brothers response to me saying Gav won't watch it incase it turns him off the music........

Ah I think people have been compartmentalising that for a long time
"Great music, probably a paedo"

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ah I think people have been compartmentalising that for a long time
"Great music, probably a paedo"

Well I mean, as controversial as it may be to say it... the two are really not related .

Though I personally would argue that fewer than 10 of his songs can be described as "great", mostly it's just "very good for pop".

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well I mean, as controversial as it may be to say it... the two are really not related .

Though I personally would argue that fewer than 10 of his songs can be described as "great", mostly it's just "very good for pop".

It was music that defined pop in the 80's and into the 90's ...... I want to say I liked him more when I was a kid but that might not be very appropriate

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

My brothers response to me saying Gav won't watch it incase it turns him off the music........

Ah I think people have been compartmentalising that for a long time
"Great music, probably a paedo"

Yup, that's my view too.
I think he was emotionally and psychologically immature, arrested development, no childhood etc
Even those alleged sex acts remind of kids experimenting behind a bike shed: I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Yup, that's my view too.
I think he was emotionally and psychologically immature, arrested development, no childhood etc
Even those alleged sex acts remind of kids experimenting behind a bike shed: I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Yeah most likely and I'm sure he had an horrendous time as a child himself, it doesn't excuse him though imo

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah most likely and I'm sure he had an horrendous time as a child himself, it doesn't excuse him though imo

Makes it worse imo, knowing what it feels like emotionally all through your life yourself, to then inflict that on others..

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Makes it worse imo, knowing what it feels like emotionally all through your life yourself, to then inflict that on others..

Yeah definitely

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Makes it worse imo, knowing what it feels like emotionally all through your life yourself, to then inflict that on others..

Are you saying he was sexually interfered with when he was a child?