[Z]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Why would there have to be other activity? They're hardly going to remain in one area kidnapping children with search parties/police investigations that occur after just one child goes missing.

They don't have to be a chancer. They repeated their evening routine 4 nights in a row. Someone watching and following the pattern and then seizing the opportunity or any other possibilities are not implausible.

A pedophile on holiday? There are people who live/work/operate abroad, they don't have to be "on holiday".

If they had done something, then why wouldn't they lie low after the case was closed and they were officially dropped as suspects? Making worldwide appeals would not be in their interests.

Take a look at the illicit drugs trade in Ibiza for example, with the case of those two girls being jailed in Peru - the gangs that operate the drug cartels are British men on the Spanish island! People are equating these hypothetical kiddy snatchers with respectable people with predictable patterns. The world of human trafficking is far more normal than people would ever want to imagine.

This clip is from a documentary about a man trying to get his wife back after she was trafficked by a friend of the couple. The man at the start of the clip was the one who trafficked her. He told her he could get a job for her. Instead he trafficked her, she had no idea what was coming next, she trusted this man. Sex traffickers aren't obvious.

Youtube video

[joeysteele]

This case is to me a massive mystery and I really have all sorts of thoughts as to it running round my head everytime I hear more of it.

I haven't any children yet, I have though been a child and I know my Parents and all those in my family who have children would not and no way even at home, let alone in a foreign country, would any of those parents leave a 3/4 year old with younger twins on their own for any length of time let alone for possibly hours.

I just don't get this case at all and really think it best I keep my own counsel as to what I think in the main but somehow,although I applaud any investigations into it being made further,I am not expecting any conclusive positive results in the end from this new investigation.

[Nedusa]

If they were in fact covering up her accidental death then I find it hard to believe given the shock and grief stricken state they both would have been in , that they could plan and put into operation the perfect abduction scenario , that they could move and safely dispose of their little girls body and still give interviews to the police that were credible and plausible.

You would think they would have missed some vital piece of evidence or left some clues as to what actually happened .

Makes me wonder if perhaps a third party was involved ??

I don't know... Like most people this case is so confusing and unusual from so many angles...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

If they were in fact covering up her accidental death then I find it hard to believe given the shock and grief stricken state they both would have been in , that they could plan and put into operation the perfect abduction scenario , that they could move and safely dispose of their little girls body and still give interviews to the police that were credible and plausible.

You would think they would have missed some vital piece of evidence or left some clues as to what actually happened .

Makes me wonder if perhaps a third party was involved ??

I don't know... Like most people this case is so confusing and unusual from so many angles...

But it being nigh on impossible for them to have covered up an accident means a third party was involved? From where?

Third party or not there would be more evidence.

[Lee.]

I honestly do not believe for a minute that the McCanns had anything to do with madeleines disappearance.

[Vicky.]

The Metropolitan Police team refuses to be critical of the previous inquiry in an effort to foster good relations with Portuguese police.

Six local officers based in Faro have been appointed to liaise with British police. But DCI Redwood hopes that ultimately the Portuguese investigation will be reopened.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/madeleine-m...2.html#tikTGfJ

That could be interesting

Especially with the libel case going on. Can't see the McCanns being too impressed with this at all...

[Z]

The main problem with this case is that there are an infinite number of variables and possibilities to explain what happened that night, and a lot of them are down to the McCanns and their negligence, which clouds everyone's view of what happened whether you believe they are guilty of covering up her death or had nothing to do with her disappearance. Constantly raking it up in the news is the only way the McCanns can keep the case alive, but it's not impacting on public perception of them in a unifying way because all the factors are still totally unpredictable.

[Braden]

It's so difficult to watch the McCann's sit and talk about Madeleine, especially not knowing the truth.

I genuinely want to believe that they didn't have anything to do with it, but I can't help but think otherwise. Watching the reenactment last night and knowing that Madeleine told her mother that she was crying along with her brother was upsetting to watch. And if I find it distressing I know that her parents would have done something about it, which would result to her not being able to cry on that specific night. Giving her sleeping pills would have sorted that problem.

If I'm wrong then I hope that the outcome is revealed sooner rather than later. I don't think anybody deserves six years of heartache.

[MTVN]

They said there had been a couple of recent burglaries at the resort hadn't they, seems possible to me that this was another one and maybe they were disturbed by Madeleine, panicked and in trying to shut her up accidentally killed her and their first thought was to get rid of the body

Agree with Jesus btw, maybe I'm naive or too trusting or whatever but I really don't think they are the sort of people who'd have had anything to do with it and then meticulously cover it up like this, and most of the 'evidence' for that seems to be mainly scraps of strange or unexplained instances that are loosely tied together into something that resembles a somewhat plausible story (like most conspiracy theories really)

[Z]

Originally Posted by MTVN

They said there had been a couple of recent burglaries at the resort hadn't they, seems possible to me that this was another one and maybe they were disturbed by Madeleine, panicked and in trying to shut her up accidentally killed her and their first thought was to get rid of the body

Agree with Jesus btw, maybe I'm naive or too trusting or whatever but I really don't think they are the sort of people who'd have had anything to do with it and then meticulously cover it up like this, and most of the 'evidence' for that seems to be mainly scraps of strange or unexplained instances that are loosely tied together into something that resembles a somewhat plausible story (like most conspiracy theories really)

The bungled burglary is a possibility... couple of guys casing the joint, checking out the affluent families and figuring out who lives where, monitoring their routine and then they go to the McCann apartment, prise open the window after seeing the empty bed (the one next to the window; the twins and Madeleine were further away from the window and they'd only have had a limited view, if any, of the inside) - they force their way in, Madeleine wakes up, they accidentally kill her... OR they go in through the door, walk into the room, are disturbed by Madeleine who is nearest the door, accidentally kill her and go out through the window in a panic... They carry the body off down to the beach and get rid of it, and don't steal anything because they've just accidentally killed a little girl.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Zee

The bungled burglary is a possibility... couple of guys casing the joint, checking out the affluent families and figuring out who lives where, monitoring their routine and then they go to the McCann apartment, prise open the window after seeing the empty bed (the one next to the window; the twins and Madeleine were further away from the window and they'd only have had a limited view, if any, of the inside) - they force their way in, Madeleine wakes up, they accidentally kill her... OR they go in through the door, walk into the room, are disturbed by Madeleine who is nearest the door, accidentally kill her and go out through the window in a panic... They carry the body off down to the beach and get rid of it, and don't steal anything because they've just accidentally killed a little girl.

There'd be more evidence of a struggle/death surely?
I'm with whoever said why on earth if a burglar was caught by a small child would they take the child with them?

They'd surely think "****" and get the fook out of there as fast as possible.

[Z]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

There'd be more evidence of a struggle/death surely?
I'm with whoever said why on earth if a burglar was caught by a small child would they take the child with them?

They'd surely think "****" and get the fook out of there as fast as possible.

They sneak in, go into the bedroom the kids are in, Madeleine wakes up, they cover her mouth with hands/a pillow to keep her quiet, she suffocates and dies without a struggle, they panic and take the body with them and don't steal anything because they've just killed a little girl - they maybe assumed that the parents were in the next room, who knows - obviously just conjecture but it's pretty feasible IMO. They take the body because they don't want their DNA left behind - maybe Madeleine got out of her bed so they didn't actually touch anything - again, if you're in shock, you're not acting rationally. They still think "****" and get out of there as fast as possible, but take the body with them, and as calmly as possible walk away with her so that they appear normal to passers by. She'd have been asphyxiated so she wouldn't have been covered in blood or anything.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Zee

They sneak in, go into the bedroom the kids are in, Madeleine wakes up, they cover her mouth with hands/a pillow to keep her quiet, she suffocates and dies without a struggle, they panic and take the body with them and don't steal anything because they've just killed a little girl - they maybe assumed that the parents were in the next room, who knows - obviously just conjecture but it's pretty feasible IMO. They take the body because they don't want their DNA left behind - maybe Madeleine got out of her bed so they didn't actually touch anything - again, if you're in shock, you're not acting rationally. They still think "****" and get out of there as fast as possible, but take the body with them, and as calmly as possible walk away with her so that they appear normal to passers by. She'd have been asphyxiated so she wouldn't have been covered in blood or anything.

But if they hadn't touched anything else, or had barely got into the apartment then the obvious thing to do would be to go, not to pressure the child into silence.

Especially when two babies are sleeping near her and could make a fuss at any time.

I just don't think your average chancing burglar would risk the bother. Just looting for any valuables they'd move onto somewhere else that may be empty.

Just a hard situation to find plausible.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

There'd be more evidence of a struggle/death surely?
I'm with whoever said why on earth if a burglar was caught by a small child would they take the child with them?

They'd surely think "****" and get the fook out of there as fast as possible.

Yup.

Though there was kind of evidence of death. The cadaver dogs went mad in the apartment. The video is on youtube.

Thats not total evidence though, the death could have occurred at another time. I do wonder if there was ever an investigation into recent known deaths in apartment 5A though (E. seems there was and no known deaths)

[Z]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup.

Though there was kind of evidence of death. The cadaver dogs went mad in the apartment. The video is on youtube.

Thats not total evidence though, the death could have occurred at another time. I do wonder if there was ever an investigation into recent known deaths in apartment 5A though

Yeah and those dogs are highly trained so I'd trust their instincts... as awful as it is, I hope she's dead and not living in eternal hell being used as a sex slave by twisted paedophiles, because that's the only life she has ever known if she is still alive... the poor thing

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by MTVN

They said there had been a couple of recent burglaries at the resort hadn't they, seems possible to me that this was another one and maybe they were disturbed by Madeleine, panicked and in trying to shut her up accidentally killed her and their first thought was to get rid of the body

Agree with Jesus btw, maybe I'm naive or too trusting or whatever but I really don't think they are the sort of people who'd have had anything to do with it and then meticulously cover it up like this, and most of the 'evidence' for that seems to be mainly scraps of strange or unexplained instances that are loosely tied together into something that resembles a somewhat plausible story (like most conspiracy theories really)

No ... Surely if they had been breaking in and disturbed and killed the girl their first instinct would have been to run away as quickly as possible without leaving behind any evidence.

But to snatch the dead girl and carry her out in public would have been the last thing they would do... No I think we can discount this theory.

Also if they had killed her and run off then the parents would have found her and this whole story would have been about catching the intruders who murdered a young girl on holiday...!!!

No tbh we are no further forward....!!!!

[Jemal]

Thing is why im increasedly pissed off at those **** parents is that...
THE NIGHT BEFORE! They went out the same and left their three kids at the apartment. Ok..Madeline and the twins wake up and start crying while their parents are out.
The next morning Madeline says "where were you when we was crying?"
I MEAN SURELY IF YOUR DAUGHTER SAYS THAT YU WOULDNT EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING OUT FOR THE 6th DAY IN A ROW!?

tbh im still a young man, but no way would i even be SELFISH and go out FOR THE 6TH DAY IN A ROW!?
IF YOU WANT TAPAS FOOD? GET A TAKEAWAY AND EAT IT TOGETHER WHILE WATCHING A MOVIE?
AND THEN BLOODY DRINK THE TAKEAWAY WINE ASWELL AND THEN GOTO THE BEDROOM AND THE BOTH OF YOU CAN GET CRACKING AND PASS THE NIGHT AWAY...

But no.. They had to be selfish pricks, thats why I have no sympathy for them at all.

Ah rant over.

[Marsh.]

I'm rather bemused by Jemal's insistence on bringing sex into the discussion.

[Jemal]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I'm rather bemused by Jemal's insistence on bringing sex into the discussion.

[Kazanne]

Is it not possible that Madeline woke up and wandered out of the apartment looking for her parents? Could she have met with some accident maybe fell into a shaft or something similar,it's just a notion, and why would someone just take the one child and the older one at that, who would have woken up and caused a fuss at the hands of a stranger,

[Z]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Is it not possible that Madeline woke up and wandered out of the apartment looking for her parents? Could she have met with some accident maybe fell into a shaft or something similar,it's just a notion, and why would someone just take the one child and the older one at that, who would have woken up and caused a fuss at the hands of a stranger,

Well, from a practical point of view (I feel horrible for wording it like that but bear with me) - if you're in the market to kidnap children for the sex trade or illegal adoption trade, it's much easier to take a toddler who is toilet trained and old enough to walk and eat food by herself than to take twin babies who would require far more care while in transit.

[Drew.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Is it not possible that Madeline woke up and wandered out of the apartment looking for her parents? Could she have met with some accident maybe fell into a shaft or something similar,it's just a notion, and why would someone just take the one child and the older one at that, who would have woken up and caused a fuss at the hands of a stranger,

i dont think she woke up at all just from the fact she could hardly keep her eyes open before they put her to bed

[Jemal]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Is it not possible that Madeline woke up and wandered out of the apartment looking for her parents? Could she have met with some accident maybe fell into a shaft or something similar,it's just a notion, and why would someone just take the one child and the older one at that, who would have woken up and caused a fuss at the hands of a stranger,

Nope my opinion is if she did walk out and look for her parents she would have taken her precious teddy, but that was left in the same position from when those parents left

[Vicky.]

For anyone who is interested in the Smith sighting, more info on it here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

For anyone who is interested in the Smith sighting, more info on it here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

thanks,that was very interesting reading.