[arista]

Yes move on.


France has the right


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bulldozed.html

[Northern Monkey]

See they made a mistake making a jungle theme camp.It should've been a desert theme so they'd feel more at home.

[jet]

Reading through these threads on the immigrants situation it's pretty clear than Isis haven't just killed people, their activities have also killed our humanity and compassion. I rarely post in these types of threads, as I would be banned within a few days...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jet

Reading through these threads on the immigrants situation it's pretty clear than Isis haven't just killed people, their activities have also killed our humanity and compassion. I rarely post in these types of threads, as I would be banned within a few days...

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

While your stance is commendable Joey, there are many who do abuse the systems, they take advantage and play on that very good nature.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum say they would turn their back on any genuine refugees, so please don't paint us all with that brush either.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

While your stance is commendable Joey, there are many who do abuse the systems, they take advantage and play on that very good nature.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum say they would turn their back on any genuine refugees, so please don't paint us all with that brush either.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

While your stance is commendable Joey, there are many who do abuse the systems, they take advantage and play on that very good nature.

I haven't seen anyone on this forum say they would turn their back on any genuine refugees, so please don't paint us all with that brush either.

Firstly, I painted no one at all with any brush except myself, so please do not manipulate my words to possibly try to cause problems for me on here.
I do not appreciate that.

I stated how I feel and think myself,not a single thing about no one else.

The only other thing I did was actually agree totally with jet, who surprisingly I see you chose not to take him up on what he said but you did myself right off.

Anyway you got your first handclap so well done to you.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

A very noble speech Joey, most commendable, and guaranteed to raise your popularity on here even more in certain quarters, but I am totally confused.

Are you referring to genuine Refugees? Illegal Economic Migrants? Or ALL?

There is a VAST difference between illegal immigrants wanting to gain entry into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons, and GENUINE refugees who NEED sanctuary and help.

The trouble is, I - and just a few others - speak only the truth, and it doesn't make us popular on here.

And that truth which we speak, is that this little island is zillions of pounds in debt, and all its services - the Benefits System, NHS, Police, Fire Services, Education and schools, Army etc etc, are collapsing under dwindling funding and the strain of TOO MANY PEOPLE demanding their services.

There is NO room and NO money to simply let every economic migrant in by the millions so PRIORITY has to be GENUINE refugees.

Of course, we who speak the truth, are xenophobic, heartless, inhuman, uncaring, racist, right wing fascist, Little Englanders - or worse.

If your stance is taken to its logical conclusion and ALL economic immigrants are welcomed into the Uk - WHERE is the MONEY coming from? The hundreds of thousands of new houses needed? The tens of thousands of extra Police, Firemen, Teachers, Doctors etc who will ALL require paying BY THE STATE.
The extra hundreds of billions needed for the NHS, Education, etc etc?

To repeat what others have said on here already - EVERY illegal ECONOMIC immigrant gaining entry to the UK DEPRIVES a GENUINE refugee from doing so - a genuine refugee who NEEDS sanctuary and help.

I have news for you Joey - you are not the only one on here who 'sees' themselves as "a human being, just one of many of the whole human race".

I can proof that I donate - by monthly deduction from my bank - to 7 different Charities - - including Oxfam -- and I can also proof that I regularly help Albanian and Lithuanian and a few other Nationalities Immigrants with their documentation and Housing problems on an unpaid basis.

It does not make me Mother Theresa.

Nor does it stop me from facing reality on issues such as Illegal Immigrants and speaking what I consider to be the truth.

Popularity be damned.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

A very noble speech Joey, most commendable, and guaranteed to raise your popularity on here even more in certain quarters, but I am totally confused.

Are you referring to genuine Refugees? Illegal Economic Migrants? Or ALL?

There is a VAST difference between illegal immigrants wanting to gain entry into the UK for ECONOMIC reasons, and GENUINE refugees who NEED sanctuary and help.

The trouble is, I - and just a few others - speak only the truth, and it doesn't make us popular on here.

And that truth which we speak, is that this little island is zillions of pounds in debt, and all its services - the Benefits System, NHS, Police, Fire Services, Education and schools, Army etc etc, are collapsing under dwindling funding and the strain of TOO MANY PEOPLE demanding their services.

There is NO room and NO money to simply let every economic migrant in by the millions so PRIORITY has to be GENUINE refugees.

Of course, we who speak the truth, are xenophobic, heartless, inhuman, uncaring, racist, right wing fascist, Little Englanders - or worse.

If your stance is taken to its logical conclusion and ALL economic immigrants are welcomed into the Uk - WHERE is the MONEY coming from? The hundreds of thousands of new houses needed? The tens of thousands of extra Police, Firemen, Teachers, Doctors etc who will ALL require paying BY THE STATE.
The extra hundreds of billions needed for the NHS, Education, etc etc?

To repeat what others have said on here already - EVERY illegal ECONOMIC immigrant gaining entry to the UK DEPRIVES a GENUINE refugee from doing so - a genuine refugee who NEEDS sanctuary and help.

I have news for you Joey - you are not the only one on here who 'sees' themselves as "a human being, just one of many of the whole human race".

I can proof that I donate - by monthly deduction from my bank - to 7 different Charities - - including Oxfam -- and I can also proof that I regularly help Albanian and Lithuanian and a few other Nationalities Immigrants with their documentation and Housing problems on an unpaid basis.

It does not make me Mother Theresa.

Nor does it stop me from facing reality on issues such as Illegal Immigrants and speaking what I consider to be the truth.

Popularity be damned.

A good try by you again Kirk to twist words and jump in at me again too, I actually said talking about myself,I saw myself as a human being,then added just one of many of the whole human race.

I said no one else was not a member of the human race but there you go.

Odd how you too, have chosen to join in and jump on my post while I was only agreeing with another who you totally ignored the comment of.
I am not playing your games Kirk.
I have sent my post to the mods myself.

[bots]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Firstly, I painted no one at all with any brush except myself, so please do not manipulate my words to possibly try to cause problems for me on here.
I do not appreciate that.

I stated how I feel and think myself,not a single thing about no one else.

The only other thing I did was actually agree totally with jet, who surprisingly I see you chose not to take him up on what he said but you did myself right off.

Anyway you got your first handclap so well done to you.

thanks for your response, you will see that you did in fact state below:

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Which is painting everyone on the forum with a particular brush, that I personally take offense to.

You paint us all as a bunch of uncaring so and so's and nothing could be further from the truth. I want to help those genuinely fleeing war. Those identified and agreed to be taken, in cooperation and agreement with international agencies. Not those that wish to enter our country via illegal means.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

thanks for your response, you will see that you did in fact state below:



Which is painting everyone on the forum with a particular brush, that I personally take offense to.

You paint us all as a bunch of uncaring so and so's and nothing could be further from the truth. I want to help those genuinely fleeing war. Those identified and agreed to be taken, in cooperation and agreement with international agencies. Not those that wish to enter our country via illegal means.

Where on earth have I said anything about you or anyone else in that post.

I agreed with jet as to the tone on serious debates.
I then went on to detail what I think and feel myself.

I did not even say everyone should think as I do, only what I actually think and feel.

Honestly I cannot be bothered with you and just stop twisting my words to try to cause bother.
If you think I said anything about anyone repost my post to the mods, in fact I will do it that for you and send it to them myself to see if I did or said anything wrong.

I agreed with jet, you have only come at me, yet all I did was state my thoughts, my feelings and what I would like to see done.

[jet]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well said jet and I mean that 100%.

I have been off for a few weeks really with family matters.
Serious debates was an area I loved to not only participate in but read too.
Not so now.

My only contribution now to this and likely some abuse will flow from this statement,comes from how I am, think and feel.
I hope I never change how I have come to think and feel as to migrants,refugees and anything that involves people.

I see myself as a human being, just one of many of the whole human race.

Whether fleeing persecution, war,famine and /or fleeing for their lives,I see all doing so as other equal human beings.
Reaching out and helping in their dire need is what I would always hope I would try to do and what those with power would do.

Adult or child,if other humans have any need or fear at all, hope and security is what they should be able to find, not judgement, derision and condemnation.

I totally agree Joey.
I am sorry that you don’t post in here as often as you did previously as I find your contributions so interesting and well thought out. I purposely seek them out and Ammi’s (and others) too to read your takes on certain subjects as I can be sure of finding common sense and decency even if I don’t always agree with every word.
I am also sorry that your reply to me was over - analysed and taken as some kind of insult and I am a loss as to why, but I assume you expected such as you mentioned ‘some abuse’ may be forthcoming.
I am clueless about the inside politics of this forum and who is on whose ‘side’ or whatever, or if any individual is indeed ON any side, but these things obviously go on and is the main reason I rarely post in serious debates, I can’t be bothered with that BS as sooner or later you’ll get drawn into it if you feel very passionately about certain subjects. I prefer to stick to the ‘lighter’ forums where you can be at loggerheads with a poster and then forget all about it and even who you were arguing with or what it was about when the next ‘on season’ rolls around.
I know myself that I get too fired up about some of the stuff in this section. In other words, I don’t like the heat, so I don’t go in the kitchen.
But please Joey, keep using your voice. Your passion and commitment to what you believe in is a great asset to this forum.

[Samm]

all those poor people

[MrJack]

Originally Posted by Samm

all those poor people

If they'd have claimed asylum, they wouldn't be in the camps. No-one else's fault they were waiting to break into Britain.

[Vicky.]

I won't click the mail link, but what exactly is happening to those who are there now?

Surely they can't stay in France. I assume they can't come here. I doubt anyone will be paying for flights back to wherever they came from. So is it just a case of...make your own way back the way you came?

[James]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I won't click the mail link, but what exactly is happening to those who are there now?

Surely they can't stay in France. I assume they can't come here. I doubt anyone will be paying for flights back to wherever they came from. So is it just a case of...make your own way back the way you came?

They just said on the news that they would be offered places in refugee centres, but some might refuse and continue to try to get to the UK.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=James;9024039]They just said on the news that they would be offered places in refugee centres, but some might refuse and continue to try to get to the UK.[/QUOTnE]

So those that refuse should immediately be removed from charities lists or census or whatever, if wont happen though and they will probably pop up on the next tranche to gain access mainly from greasing palms....the people who are aiding and abetting this cannot call themselves humanitarians because they are capitalists

[Kizzy]

We helped make the mess, we need to help clean it up... If there's money for cluster bombs there's money for aid/housing.

[jennyjuniper]

I'm all for helping those in need, but surely it's only those who can never return to their countries, who would be killed if they did, who should be granted asylum.?
In my language class, when I first came to Denmark there were 22 students. Mostly they were from the arabian countries, but only two (from Sri Lanka) had 'NOT TO BE ADMITTED) stamped on their passports.
These two could never return, because they knew they would be tiortured and killed if they did. The rest from Syria and other parts of the middle east went back to visit their relatives at regular intervals and in my mind that doesn't make them genuine refugees.
While I applaud people who want to help others, please help the needy in your own country. Too often the poor, elderly, mentall sick are ignored while people rush to 'do good' for a popular cause.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I'm all for helping those in need, but surely it's only those who can never return to their countries, who would be killed if they did, who should be granted asylum.?
In my language class, when I first came to Denmark there were 22 students. Mostly they were from the arabian countries, but only two (from Sri Lanka) had 'NOT TO BE ADMITTED) stamped on their passports.
These two could never return, because they knew they would be tiortured and killed if they did. The rest from Syria and other parts of the middle east went back to visit their relatives at regular intervals and in my mind that doesn't make them genuine refugees.
While I applaud people who want to help others, please help the needy in your own country. Too often the poor, elderly, mentall sick are ignored while people rush to 'do good' for a popular cause.

...while I don't disagree with what you say Jenny, I guess the way I see it is that funding doesn't appear to go to those things anyway...it didn't appear to before the Calais situation and it hasn't since..that's the thing, we don't have any say in where these things are focused/government money and our taxes...it's never seemed to be any sort of 'either/or' situation to me...money isn't spent where it should be spent..(or where I personally think anyway..)...not nearly enough invested into a bursting at the seams NHS, virtually nothing into mental health of either adults or children...the homelessness not being addressed..in fact the homeless being fined and penalised for being homeless.../I mean how crazy is that and no addressing of these things sufficiently whether the Calais situation exists or not...those people are there though, they're there now and it has to be addressed that they're there because it's basically being ignored in the hope that it'll all just go away and not exist, but it won't will it...and countries passing the buck of responsibility is just avoidance, just get down to the job and sort it out..these are human beings and there but with the grace of God, they could be anyone of us....

[Ammi]

..if today or tomorrow, the government were to say...look, we can't help in any way at all because this is what we're investing in mental health atm and we also want to do this for others as well.../and we just can't do it all, we have to self preserve as well..?.../but none of those things are visible...all we get is this needs attention and that needs attention and there isn't enough money .../but where is that attention because it isn't presenting itself to be obvious or evident...

[jennyjuniper]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...while I don't disagree with what you say Jenny, I guess the way I see it is that funding doesn't appear to go to those things anyway...it didn't appear to before the Calais situation and it hasn't since..that's the thing, we don't have any say in where these things are focused/government money and our taxes...it's never seemed to be any sort of 'either/or' situation to me...money isn't spent where it should be spent..(or where I personally think anyway..)...not nearly enough invested into a bursting at the seams NHS, virtually nothing into mental health of either adults or children...the homelessness not being addressed..in fact the homeless being fined and penalised for being homeless.../I mean how crazy is that and no addressing of these things sufficiently whether the Calais situation exists or not...those people are there though, they're there now and it has to be addressed that they're there because it's basically being ignored in the hope that it'll all just go away and not exist, but it won't will it...and countries passing the buck of responsibility is just avoidance, just get down to the job and sort it out..these are human beings and there but with the grace of God, they could be anyone of us....

I agree wholeheartedly with you Ammi, but what puzzles me is that the people at Calais are already in a free country. Why the urgent need to cross the channel? Could it simply be that Britain is a softer touch than other European countries?
Also why Europe? Other middle eastern countries should be far more welcoming to fellow muslims surely?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper

I agree wholeheartedly with you Ammi, but what puzzles me is that the people at Calais are already in a free country. Why the urgent need to cross the channel? Could it simply be that Britain is a softer touch than other European countries?
Also why Europe? Other middle eastern countries should be far more welcoming to fellow muslims surely?

...(my thoughts Jenny..)...is it's just one of those situations that governments/countries haven't want to address or address sufficiently enough so hence the crisis and how it has grown.../just the usual passing the buck of responsibility...well, we've done a bit so now you and well we've done a bit now also.../human lives being passed around in the parcel as it were...I'm sure there are outbursts of hostility as well because I can't imagine the emotions of negativity in having to live day in and day out and month in and month out in such conditions as the migrant camps, it would be hard to keep any type of positivity going and yet some do but those aren't the ones who the media focus on though.../they show the emotions of extreme frustrations with how they're living and say ....LOOK HOW AWFUL THESE PEOPLE ARE...and the people who print these things, how would they be if they were in that situation and living like that.../would they be docile and smiling..?../just ridiculous....

...anyways, as to reasons Jenny..?...it's hard to say because I don't think these things are one size fits all...but many do have some English so maybe the language comes into play, maybe having relatives/friends...maybe feeling the work opportunities could be better here... or just a vision in a head that feels, England a welcoming people and great place and offering something that other countries don't...I guess that people speak about putting the great back into Britain for a reason and maybe we have a far reaching reputation for our greatness as a nation...

[Ammi]

...also Jet...always good to see your lovely face in any section of the forum and at any time....

[Kizzy]

Have you heard of Aleppo?