[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Withano

Bi loves men and women because they are men or women, pan love men and women because they are people that they like.

See I've heard this line of removing the sex from the whole equation before but that still doesn't make much sense to me. Ultimately you are playing with someone's genitals, whatever their gender is, so just resting and saying "I fall in love with a person, not a sex " is just incredibly condescending to anyone who identifies as anything other than pansexual. Also implies all homosexual males only like cis men, all heterosexual females only like cis men, etc. etc.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Well I'm pansexual

Originally Posted by Shaun

See I've heard this line of removing the sex from the whole equation before but that still doesn't make much sense to me. Ultimately you are playing with someone's genitals, whatever their gender is, so just resting and saying "I fall in love with a person, not a sex " is just incredibly condescending to anyone who identifies as anything other than pansexual. Also implies all homosexual males only like cis men, all heterosexual females only like cis men, etc. etc.

It doesnt really, unless you presume that hetero males always only like cis women (etc). I’m sure there are far beyond millions of self identifying heterosexual men that like transwomen too. You’re reading into the ‘trans’ thing more than I, thats not the key difference from my perspective.

The difference is bi people seeking out both genders because theyre aroused by both genders (may include trans), or pan people seeking out any gender, because they literally can be aroused by any gender depending on their personality (also, may include trans).

@Adam contributing more would be helpful if he really is pan? Am i on the right track or no?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

See I've heard this line of removing the sex from the whole equation before but that still doesn't make much sense to me. Ultimately you are playing with someone's genitals, whatever their gender is, so just resting and saying "I fall in love with a person, not a sex " is just incredibly condescending to anyone who identifies as anything other than pansexual. Also implies all homosexual males only like cis men, all heterosexual females only like cis men, etc. etc.

Well, quite.

Doesn't everyone fall in love with the person, not the genitals anyway?! I mean I have 3 friends who always considered themselves 100% straight (and in one case, 100% gay...to the point where he thought anything to do with vagina was totally vile, a sentiment seemingly shared by many on this forum ), but then fell in love with someone and basically..'got over' the fact that this person was the 'wrong' sex for the sexuality they thought they were. In one of those cases it was not so much 'got over' it, but that it didn't matter as they were in love. I cannot speak on this with any authority given I have always been bi myself mind, I can only go off what others say. But I have never really thought 'omg, he has a dick, I want it' rather than like...it being the person I was attracted to.

I guess I could maybe be described as pansexual too, if I was that pretentious. As honestly, if I was very attracted to someone I thought was a guy and it turned out they were female..it probably wouldn't bother me all that much, same as if they looked like a woman and had a dick. Which is my understanding of what pansexual is. So yes, by very definition, those describing themselves as pansexual are implying that 'mere bisexuals' are transphobic, as not all bisexual people would be happy being with someone who looked like a bloke who had a fanny, or looked like a woman and had a dick (see also cotton ceiling...which is now slowly moving onto gay men from my understanding, and its now transphobic for gay men to be..well attracted to male people. Rather than only for lesbians to be attracted to females)

Bisexual people are attracted to both sexes. Some would be fine with a mix up of both sexes. Some will not. What appears to be happening, and has been happening for some time now, is that those bisexual people who are attracted to a mismatch of sexual characteristics (including 'gender identity'..as noone can be attracted to gender identity alone as its something in the mind) are making out that there is something wrong with not being attracted to a mismatch of characteristics. Or that bisexual people who would not, for example, have sex with a butch woman, but they would with a more feminine woman...are in the wrong in some way. Or that bisexual people who would sleep with male and female people, but not someone who was female but had been taking testosterone..is transphobic.

Its just a need for more labels when really, we should be having less. And in many cases the need to be the white knight, protecting people against all those nasty people who do not want to sleep with them. Really..

I know a fair few youngsters who define themselves as 'pansexual' but have never had a relationship with anyone of the same sex, let alone the same sex but 'different'..but who will still berate lesbians for being lesbians and will sneer at bisexual people for not defining themselves as pan as apparently bi is transphobic.

This went on way longer that I meant it too, and I may add another couple of essays to this thread tbh as I posted before actually reading the thread

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

but if you like their personality INSTEAD of their gender, that makes it unique and special!!!!111one!!

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Doesn't everyone fall in love with the person, not the genitals anyway?! I mean I have 3 friends who always considered themselves 100% straight (and in one case, 100% gay...to the point where he thought anything to do with vagina was totally vile, a sentiment seemingly shared by many on this forum ), but then fell in love with someone and basically..'got over' the fact that this person was the 'wrong' sex for the sexuality they thought they were. In one of those cases it was not so much 'got over' it, but that it didn't matter as they were in love. I cannot speak on this with any authority given I have always been bi myself mind, I can only go off what others say. But I have never really thought 'omg, he has a dick, I want it' rather than like...it being the person I was attracted to.

Heh Was writing this and did not see your reply