[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You keep highlighting this law... which law are they breaking adopting this practice?

Should we as a civilised society accept grooming?...I see your point on the groups that are not acting within the perimeters of current police practice however, it is not fair to suggest that civil enforcement cannot be a valued resource for an already stretched service.

Throughout history there have been organisations that work in conjunction with the police, there's a whole 3rd sector of volunteers that ensure the safety of communities and society as a whole. Why would this area not benefit from the involvement of the public if coordinating with neighbourhood policing teams?

As you said yourself, their tactics have adapted over the years to ensure that they aren't technically breaking any laws. These groups used to go around sending threatening letters, attacking vehicles, smashing windows, etc. but have evolved to legitimise themselves. It's the same people, though... and finding "loopholes" to keep it legal doesn't negate the fact that it's vigilantism, nor nullify the reasons that vigilantism generally is not a good idea.

Is your argument that these groups DON'T make mistakes and victimise innocent people? Or that they AREN'T at risk of getting themselves or other members of the public hurt?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As you said yourself, their tactics have adapted over the years to ensure that they aren't technically breaking any laws. These groups used to go around sending threatening letters, attacking vehicles, smashing windows, etc. but have evolved to legitimise themselves. It's the same people, though... and finding "loopholes" to keep it legal doesn't negate the fact that it's vigilantism, nor nullify the reasons that vigilantism generally is not a good idea.

Is your argument that these groups DON'T make mistakes and victimise innocent people? Or that they AREN'T at risk of getting themselves or other members of the public hurt?

You are presuming it is the same groups that operated in a violent manner that have legitimised themselves today... but you don't have any evidence of that.

There is a lot of public support for these kind of sting and the evidence is proving to ensure convictions, the police are now engaging with these groups to maintain best practice. That has to be the way forward now with regulated groups affiliated with their neighborhood policing teams.

I don't have a problem with the groups who refuse to be regulated by the police being disbanded, however if social media continues as a way for predators to reach children they will continue to operate better it be in conjunction with the police than not.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You are presuming it is the same groups that operated in a violent manner that have legitimised themselves today... but you don't have any evidence of that.

There is a lot of public support for these kind of sting and the evidence is proving to ensure convictions, the police are now engaging with these groups to maintain best practice. That has to be the way forward now with regulated groups affiliated with their neighborhood policing teams.

I don't have a problem with the groups who refuse to be regulated by the police being disbanded, however if social media continues as a way for predators to reach children they will continue to operate better it be in conjunction with the police than not.

Of course its the same groups, have you ever watched the live streams? They might not be throwing punches but they're still highly aggressive. You're also still willfully ignoring the point about mistakes being made and innocent people being caught in the crossfire of amateurs... Which does happen.

It's a dangerous, slippery slope and it's naively optimistic to assume that this style of... Ahem... "community policing" will be limited sexual predators in the long run. I get that it's a highly emotive topic, the fact that children and teens are groomed and abused is horrific, but I personally believe that emotions and outrage running high on this topic clouds peoples rational judgement on whether or not vigilantism in general is something we want to accept. "Well not for most things but in this special case its OK" isn't really a sensible answer. You can't half-open the door to this sort of thing. I'm not OK with any form of social media mob justice, and so I can't be OK with this.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course its the same groups, have you ever watched the live streams? They might not be throwing punches but they're still highly aggressive. You're also still willfully ignoring the point about mistakes being made and innocent people being caught in the crossfire of amateurs... Which does happen.

It's a dangerous, slippery slope and it's naively optimistic to assume that this style of... Ahem... "community policing" will be limited sexual predators in the long run. I get that it's a highly emotive topic, the fact that children and teens are groomed and abused is horrific, but I personally believe that emotions and outrage running high on this topic clouds peoples rational judgement on whether or not vigilantism in general is something we want to accept. "Well not for most things but in this special case its OK" isn't really a sensible answer. You can't half-open the door to this sort of thing. I'm not OK with any form of social media mob justice, and so I can't be OK with this.

I'm not suggesting that hasn't happened which is why I say push for affiliation and closer working with the police to ensure those situations are not repeated.

We are discussing groups working within communities so what better to work alongside neighbourhood policing teams? Not sure what the 'Ahem' is for :/

I would've thought the police would welcome public involvement to solve any and all crime... we are constantly told to remain vigilant and report suspect behaviours to the police.

Social media like the rest of the web has, as you highlighted in another thread some seriously dark corners... the police hasn't the time or the resources to flush them out. These groups can be utilised if managed effectively, like a 'dads army'. of er... dads?