[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by Black Dagger

You're all heart LT. I can see what Mrs LT sees in you.

Originally Posted by Cherie

I know I shouldn't laugh

.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Beartrice and her kids might just be one of those kind souls who stop and chat to the homeless, leaving them with something nice to eat...that is something you will just never know.

A lovely woman.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Of course homelessness is an issue but ultimately these benches have not been erected to give homeless people a marginally more comfortable resting place. How would you feel about it if you ran a small business nearby like an ice cream stand or a cafe? The image and ambience of any place is important to it's prosperity, if people feel uneasy or unsafe visiting parks or towns then they won't bother and that place goes into decline so it's kinda understandable why councils and local authorities take measures like this. Of course in the same way that's why they should also do what they can to help the homeless out of their situation

Well, tbh, if there was help so that these homeless people actually had alternatives to park benches it would be great.

However, many of these places close down, or in some areas simply don't exist.

I find that a tad more sad and important than the "ambience' for an ice cream truck.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A lovely woman.

Yes, most people are.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' kind of attitude.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Yes, most people are.

Unless they fall on hard times. Then they should be kicked whilst they're down.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' kind of attitude.

Yeah, allowing people to sleep on public property suddenly becoming well you wouldn't let them sleep in your house is a straw man argument that holds no logic.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and any council will tell you they are already do that

but they also have a duty to citizens and local business and that is what they are doing

You have got to be joking, councils have no bloody properties! I know people who have been on the waiting lists for literally years. If you have kids and are going to be made homeless you are made a priority however, being made a priority these days tends to mean being put in a hostel or a B+B, which obviously the council cannot pay for this for everyone. So a single female/male (which homeless people usually are) have absolutely no chance of getting a council properties. In any of the surrounding areas to me anyway and I am in the North East, I expect its even worse down South.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, allowing people to sleep on public property suddenly becoming well you wouldn't let them sleep in your house is a straw man argument that holds no logic.

Quite. I wonder if people would say 'oh so you agree with poor people getting benefits? Give them your whole wage each month or you are talking crap!' or something. 'Agree with foodbanks existing? You must donate your entire months shopping to one!' 'Don't want a power plant near a school? AGREE TO HAVE IT BUILT IN YOUR BACKYARD!!!' Seems to be only with homeless people that this argument applies, from what I have seen anyway.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' kind of attitude.

Yeah, I would love to open my doors to someone like that. I've known family members to do the same and there are people who only just need short-term help and an address. It's hard for me to talk to anyone and not feel some sort of empathy. If I were single, I could maybe see myself taking someone in, but even then... it's not like that person is taking in a dog and giving it feed and water. It's a living breathing human-being, with issues, with likely needs, etc... and "low maintenance" isn't exactly part of human nature, but particularly not part of our culture... so when we take someone in, it may be someone who is all take take take... but even if not, it's still a person who has their own history and their own "baggage", and so it's not a simple thing like here's some food and shelter... we're in a sense rehabilitating a person from the ground up, and if that person doing the giving is an empathic person by nature, then it's very difficult to take that on without taking it all on so to speak without having good advice with dealing with that sort of living situation... that's why I give to the churches nearby that help to shelter them, they have a network of people who help also with counseling to help with drug assistance if there's an addiction issue... things that a typical homeowner wouldn't have the resources, connections, etc to be able to achieve... but yeah, having an address is the first step... we have a lot of properties here with secondary buildings (101a, 101b, etc), and sometimes people will "rent" or "lend" those out to someone in need... that I think is ideal if those peopel can manage separate separate spaces somehow, but that situation is not for everyone as you said...

The other part of that is if we take someone in randomly, we have no idea what "stage" they're in... if they're even prepared to get situated, so to speak.

Anyway, I just see it as a balancing act... we can't be too accomodating, because then we enable the issue. On the other hand, we can't also neglect the rest of the population to care for people who legitimately have no desire to get off the streets (and that is a problem in itself).

I had a great uncle that passed away many years ago, from assault (disagreement at a bar). Anyway, he was transient and my grandmother took him in... but no matter how much we tried to ground him, he would go back to his old ways. There were kids in the home, so it could only go on for so long before he had to move on, but we all felt bad we couldn't take him in permanently... even though it wasn't on any of his siblings what happened, we had other family members that couldn't be grounded. That was just their way... a lot of my family members are stubborn like this, and it makes both people very miserable to try to reason and shove their view of life onto the other...

Society as-it-is may work for most people, but it doesn't work for all, for any variety of reasons... but this is still the best civilization has ever had it. So makes no sense to inconvenience every one else for just a few... but I'm alright with individual establishments opening their doors to folk as Mokka mentioned, giving out free food.. they do a lot of that here. There are restaurants in this area where the food bank will go by and pick up left-overs... so it's not like there are not places for these folk to go. There is definitely a need.

I do not agree with a broad stroke approach with govt, bannings, particularly welfare expansion etc, because it influences the market(s) adversely and makes poverty cyclical. I think giving works better and individual needs are better met when the charity is on a one-on-one basis, either an individual, a business or an organization reaching out directly. It's more personable and there is more "giving" in the psychological/emotional sense as well, not just the financial giving tailored to whatever numbers the beaurocratic magicians come up with to "resolve" the problem.. it also doesn't account for "failure", i.e., when money just goes into someone who either isn't genuinely needed or is not the best use for it (like someone who is trading food for cash, etc).. When we pass laws on the other hand to encourage the problem, we're not really doing anything about it... we're more or less just giving society a nice permission slip to ignore the issue and just let the politicians handle it. I don't agree with that either... so balance is necessary in both these areas I think.

Anyway, as the question was phrased... I voted against a "ban", because banning anti-homeless benches won't end homelessness... it's just another emotional barrier imo.

[RileyH]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain

Im ****ing screaming

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Maru

we have a lot of properties here with secondary buildings (101a, 101b, etc), and sometimes people will "rent" or "lend" those out to someone in need... that I think is ideal if those peopel can manage separate separate spaces somehow, but that situation is not for everyone as you said...

Interesting, do you not have the landlords who all charge damage deposits, month rent in advance and that? Seems all our private landlords do that (I understand why, don't get me wrong) so it would be pretty impossible for someone who is on the streets to even get a property without a job as they just would not have a spare 1k+ lying around, else they wouldn't be on the streets to start with really Kind of ****ed up chicken and egg scenario. Need a home to get a job, but need a job to get a home.

Originally Posted by Maru

The other part of that is if we take someone in randomly, we have no idea what "stage" they're in... if they're even prepared to get situated, so to speak.

Yeah this is definitely an issue too. I could have had him refuse to leave, rob my house, cause a lot of trouble, even maybe attack me tbh. But as a 17 year old in her first house on her own I didn't really think too much about it. I had a spare room, seemed to get on fairly well with him, and it genuinely did seem like he was just down on his luck rather than had caused it for himself (something I believe is true of most homeless people, I think only a few are there through their own actions tbh) and I am generally really good at spotting liars and that.

Originally Posted by Maru

Society as-it-is may work for most people, but it doesn't work for all, for any variety of reasons... but this is still the best civilization has ever had it. So makes no sense to inconvenience every one else for just a few... but I'm alright with individual establishments opening their doors to folk as Mokka mentioned, giving out free food.. they do a lot of that here. There are restaurants in this area where the food bank will go by and pick up left-overs... so it's not like there are not places for these folk to go. There is definitely a need.

You know, I worked in a fair few food places. I have worked in Burger King, Peters Bakery, a sandwich place, a cafe and a chip shop. Every one of these places point blank refused to do anything except throw their leftovers from the day in the bin. Peters was the worst, I questioned why on earth such a rich chain (well, seems they weren't as rich as they seemed as they got taken over by someone else a few years later, I guess ) did this when there were homeless people/poor people who needed fed...it just seems so wasteful. Anyway, turns out apparently Peters head office or whatever actually send random inspectors out to check the BINS to make sure that all the stock left at the end of the day is actually thrown out. In addition to this, the bins were locked well away from everyone, and padlocked and such I got quite irate at the manager about this actually, (I am not sure that this is actually a real thing, about the inspectors or if he just made up crap on the spot to shut me up...either way, they do write down whats left at the end of the night on a checklist thing, then throw it in the bin though) it possibly contributed to me being sacked for being 'not a good fit and 'causing trouble'

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Interesting, do you not have the landlords who all charge damage deposits, month rent in advance and that? Seems all our private landlords do that (I understand why, don't get me wrong) so it would be pretty impossible for someone who is on the streets to even get a property without a job as they just would not have a spare 1k+ lying around, else they wouldn't be on the streets to start with really Kind of ****ed up chicken and egg scenario. Need a home to get a job, but need a job to get a home.

Not necessarily if it's a homeowner with a dettached extension that doesn't have plumbing or a kitchen, etc, and is just an extension of the the main property (common enough), then it's maybe not a large enough expense to them to just let someone live there for a bit. There's usually a separate light bill, but if it's just one person and they are not a huge resource drain, then it may be worth letting them stay a few months to get themselves situated. I guess it is called a shed there? When it's been insulated, drywalled and had electric connected, we usually call it an extension?

Yeah this is definitely an issue too. I could have had him refuse to leave, rob my house, cause a lot of trouble, even maybe attack me tbh. But as a 17 year old in her first house on her own I didn't really think too much about it. I had a spare room, seemed to get on fairly well with him, and it genuinely did seem like he was just down on his luck rather than had caused it for himself (something I believe is true of most homeless people, I think only a few are there through their own actions tbh) and I am generally really good at spotting liars and that.

So in a way, your naivety paid off because you received a positive experience from it. I think if our culture was different, it would easier I think to provide that kind of charity. I feel like part of the reason is, 1) there is a reinforcement of this behavior to some degree societally (not in a positive way), but there's also 2) the general paranoia we all have for each other... is really quite high actually. and 3) There is a lot of reinforcement of that paranoia in the local media here... never leave your doors unlocked, never do this, never do that... warnings of scams, etc. Everyone is out to get us, etc...

You know, I worked in a fair few food places. I have worked in Burger King, Peters Bakery, a sandwich place, a cafe and a chip shop. Every one of these places point blank refused to do anything except throw their leftovers from the day in the bin. Peters was the worst, I questioned why on earth such a rich chain (well, seems they weren't as rich as they seemed as they got taken over by someone else a few years later, I guess ) did this when there were homeless people/poor people who needed fed...it just seems so wasteful. Anyway, turns out apparently Peters head office or whatever actually send random inspectors out to check the BINS to make sure that all the stock left at the end of the day is actually thrown out. In addition to this, the bins were locked well away from everyone, and padlocked and such I got quite irate at the manager about this actually, (I am not sure that this is actually a real thing, about the inspectors or if he just made up crap on the spot to shut me up...either way, they do write down whats left at the end of the night on a checklist thing, then throw it in the bin though) it possibly contributed to me being sacked for being 'not a good fit and 'causing trouble'

Yeah, it's astonishing the amount of waste that can come out of a single restaurant. It's infuriating. Not only in food, but in product waste in general, just the general production/running of a restaurant is pretty wasteful... the local businesses though seem to have a choice to donate or throw, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not in certain company's policy to avoid this for health reasons Even if it's not directly to the homeless from the front/back of their shop, the shelters that will pick up bulk food on their behalf if the restaurant tells them it is available. We have natural disasters often enough that there always seems to be loads of non-profits and local restaurants ready and willing to step up at a moments notice and come to the shelters with food when they open... so that could be somewhat of a local custom... we all need a little bit of extra help sometimes I feel though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That is to much writing ffs

[Jase.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain

Iconic QUEEN!

[JerseyWins]

^

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you understand what parks are for?

For me it's playing Football and getting Ice Cream.

But personally I feel like we as a society should be helping the homeless, not hindering them even more.