[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

People do all sorts of abhorrent stuff but post it on social media and the game changes

I'm not sure if you're saying that as though it SHOULDN'T change things? When people say / do things like this in private, it's not particularly tasteful, but it doesn't actively harm anyone. When those things go into the public eye and people who were actually affected by something like this can see it, then it can and does cause emotional distress... so it becomes something far worse.

That said, in this case I really have to question the mindset of these men. There's making a throwaway controversial joke in the moment - I enjoy a good round of Cards Against Humanity as much as the next nihilist - but then there's getting out the PVA glue and crayons and sitting round the table to craft and decorate a ****ing scale model building. I mean... really...

[Alf]

Originally Posted by arista

They have all been released,


A Top Legal Expert on LBC
said they can not be charged with anything
just told off.

That's good to hear.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not sure if you're saying that as though it SHOULDN'T change things? When people say / do things like this in private, it's not particularly tasteful, but it doesn't actively harm anyone. When those things go into the public eye and people who were actually affected by something like this can see it, then it can and does cause emotional distress... so it becomes something far worse.

That said, in this case I really have to question the mindset of these men. There's making a throwaway controversial joke in the moment - I enjoy a good round of Cards Against Humanity as much as the next nihilist - but then there's getting out the PVA glue and crayons and sitting round the table to craft and decorate a ****ing scale model building. I mean... really...

we burn a catholic alive on our bonfires, they did not intend, i guess, for anyone other than their poorly educated friends to see it

if it had been trump and his entire family in say airforce one model people would be so happy on here as would a lot of 16-24s

im not defending it but just posing a scenario

[Beso]

Originally Posted by leathertrumpet

we burn a catholic alive on our bonfires, they did not intend, i guess, for anyone other than their poorly educated friends to see it

if it had been trump and his entire family in say airforce one model people would be so happy on here as would a lot of 16-24s

im not defending it but just posing a scenario

funny you should say that as lewes bonfire had a giant effigy off the pm and nothing has been said.

[Twosugars]

effigies of politicians are fine imo, it's about their political opinions really
I'd find addition of trump's family objectionable and in a bad taste

btw, this incident provided a final straw for me getting a book on fascist behaviour and ideology in the world today; gonna educate myself

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

btw, this incident provided a final straw for me getting a book on fascist behaviour and ideology in the world today; gonna educate myself

What do you think fascism is, and how do you think it relates to this particular incident? No "shade", I just find people's views on that sort of thing interesting.

[arista]

Yes we do not know they are Racist.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What do you think fascism is, and how do you think it relates to this particular incident? No "shade", I just find people's views on that sort of thing interesting.

That's why I got the book, to educate myself.
If you want to know I'll tell you. But I want to put a disclaimer that I'm not presenting it as my view to be argued and defended. It's more of a gut feeling.
I think these people did what they did bc that tower represented multicultural Britain with people of colour, immigrants and refugees in social housing.
I think they disaprove of that. They disaprove of other races living here and they disaprove of welfare state. Both together make me think they may hold fascist views (racial purity, no welfare).
As to the definition of fascism, see wikipedia

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by arista

They have all been released,


A Top Legal Expert on LBC
said they can not be charged with anything
just told off.

wtf

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

That's why I got the book, to educate myself.
If you want to know I'll tell you. But I want to put a disclaimer that I'm not presenting it as my view to be argued and defended. It's more of a gut feeling.
I think these people did what they did bc that tower represented multicultural Britain with people of colour, immigrants and refugees in social housing.
I think they disaprove of that. They disaprove of other races living here and they disaprove of welfare state. Both together make me think they may hold fascist views (racial purity, no welfare).
As to the definition of fascism, see wikipedia

They're a few geezers having a bonfire in their garden on bonfire night, they're not putting forward policies for racial purity and a non welfare state.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Matthew.

wtf

No one got hurt
that's the legal side

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

They're a few geezers having a bonfire in their garden on bonfire night, they're not putting forward policies for racial purity and a non welfare state.

you mean fascists of a garden-variety?

Oliver asked so I answered, but I'm not getting into legality or impact or arguing my points as it's just a hunch so

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

That's why I got the book, to educate myself.
If you want to know I'll tell you. But I want to put a disclaimer that I'm not presenting it as my view to be argued and defended. It's more of a gut feeling.
I think these people did what they did bc that tower represented multicultural Britain with people of colour, immigrants and refugees in social housing.
I think they disaprove of that. They disaprove of other races living here and they disaprove of welfare state. Both together make me think they may hold fascist views (racial purity, no welfare).
As to the definition of fascism, see wikipedia

A lack of a welfare state isn't necessarily a fascist thing:

[Nazi Germany had] undertaken state intervention in the economy unprecedented in capitalist societies. The Nazis also supported an extensive welfare state (of course, for ‘ethnically pure’ Germans). It included free higher education, family and child support, pensions, health insurance and an array of publically supported entertainment and vacation options.

People paint fascism as "far right" when looking at racist thugs or politicians they disagree with, but actual fascism is hard to place on the left-right scale as it has aspects of both.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Should we now monitor every private party now, in case someone's doing something we don't approve of?

When they put that footage in a public space then it's up to be commented and acted on.

This wasn't a private party, it was an intentional public statement.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

But there wasn't the same outrage when Muslims burned poppies. They were also charged with a public order offence, and fined £50. Poppies represent people who've died, is someone going to tell me that's not the same thing either?

I don't understand, they were also charged with an offence so why are you saying it was treated differently?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

A lack of a welfare state isn't necessarily a fascist thing:

People paint fascism as "far right" when looking at racist thugs or politicians they disagree with, but actual fascism is hard to place on the left-right scale as it has aspects of both.

re. welfare: it is
that intervention you quote was not ideologically driven but practical
they excused it by saying it is for pure germans who fell behind by no fault of their own (blamed it on Jews)
doesn't change the fact that in principle they disagreed with welfare state and wanted a Darwinian survival of the fittest.


I didn't say they were far right, I said fascist so I don't disagree with your statement there. Tho you can't ignore that in common perception some see fascism as a right wing and may mistakenly claim that

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

funny you should say that as lewes bonfire had a giant effigy off the pm and nothing has been said.

Should Theresa May be involved in a horrific fire then that, too, would become completely out of order I imagine.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Should Theresa May be involved in a horrific fire then that, too, would become completely out of order I imagine.

good one

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Withano

This is not the appropriate place for you to be confused about Guy Fawkes traditions ffs.

Boris and Theressa are not catholics so that ain't tradition at all.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Should Theresa May be involved in a horrific fire then that, too, would become completely out of order I imagine.

About time people put more effort into prosecuting the actual people at fault for grenfell than this sorry bunch if spastics.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Boris and Theressa are not catholics so that ain't tradition at all.

Did you intentionally quote that post? If so, I have no idea wtf you’re going on about either.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

About time people put more effort into prosecuting the actual people at fault for grenfell than this sorry bunch if spastics.

And there's the crux of it.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Withano

Did you intentionally quote that post? If so, I have no idea wtf you’re going on about either.

Guy Fawkes was part of a Catholic gang who concocted the Gunpowder Plot together. So apparently that means the tradition behind burning Guy dolls is actually burning Catholics?

Burning Catholics actually was a thing back in the day, but I don't think the burning of Guys is related to that.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Guy Fawkes was part of a Catholic gang who concocted the Gunpowder Plot together. So apparently that means the tradition behind burning Guy dolls is actually burning Catholics?

Burning Catholics actually was a thing back in the day, but I don't think the burning of Guys is related to that.

Catholosism had a huge impact on this case.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

About time people put more effort into prosecuting the actual people at fault for grenfell than this sorry bunch if spastics.

Well, it's not the same crime we're discussing so one doesn't affect the other really.