[Alf]

This time next year, we'll still be tied the EU and We'll be in a post democracy era. That change will come with catastrophic consequences. I wonder if that was the plan all along?

[Nicky91]

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

If Labour /SNP/LibDem and Some Possible Angry Conservatives
call for a No Confidence Vote
the PM could end up gone

It can't work at this time arista.
I cannot see even the harder brexit MPs supporting an opposition no confidence motion.

If the awful DUP were to indicate they'd support it or at least abstain.
Then it would have a chance.

The DUP won't bring this government down until possibly this deal gets passed.
I wouldn't trust the DUP even then.

It's sad for me a Party like the DUP now has so much influence and indeed the real power in the UK Parliament.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

This time next year, we'll still be tied the EU and We'll be in a post democracy era. That change will come with catastrophic consequences. I wonder if that was the plan all along?

get off the sherry, Alf, it's not Christmas yet

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That didn't just spring up out of the ground, though, the propaganda of fear has been pushed and pushed every day for a decade or more to get people to this point. It was done deliberately and nefariously, chipping away at the public mindset, and the effects of that are now pretty clear. The same people who orchestrated that are heavily pro-Brexit and stand to gain in various ways through Brexit and that's no coincidence.

The MPs talking about short term pain if we go out with no deal won't feel any of it

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I agree and disagree. I agree that this has been an on-going propaganda campaign for years, but it's way longer than the last decade. However, I can't absolve people of blame for buying into it; unless the seeds were there to begin with, then bigotry doesn't flower.

You are 100% correct in those that stand to gain from this mess though. Imagine all the regulations that can be scrapped to appease more and more corporations that won't have to pay taxes, with their nice MP's as board members.

All regulations that actually protect those on the bottom rung of society are in absolute and real danger.

I heard a stat today about the funding the North East gets from the EU can't remember the figure, an area that voted out by a mile, who will fill that funding when we are out, its like turkeys voting for Christmas

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

get off the sherry, Alf, it's not Christmas yet

You won't be laughing when conscription to the EU army starts.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

You won't be laughing when conscription to the EU army starts.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Did you see the tanks with the EU logo on them that got sent to keep the French people in order last weekend?

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

Did you see the tanks with the EU logo on them that got sent to keep the French people in order last weekend?

I'm missing the link to conscription though.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm missing the link to conscription though.

It's inevitable, how else will they get people to join?

[Alf]

Youtube video

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's inevitable, how else will they get people to join?

Ahh, it's inevitable? Apologies, I didn't realise.

I'd suggest that maybe, and I know this is a stretch so go with it for a minute, there would be some kind of agreement between member states to provide numbers when needed/necessary. You do realise that we already have forces in different parts of the world?

Our military doesn't go England - war - back to England.

We already have a military that doesn't require conscription, so there is a working model available.

[Twosugars]

Verhofstadt is a federalist Doesn't mean anything. EU has always been a compromise between federalists and nationalists. It all depends. Some things are better addressed locally, some nationally and others internationally.
Of course politicians will wrestle over power, be it devolution or central government, central government or international body.
The trick is to divide these things wisely. Best so that they keep each other in check bc you can't trust any of them.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Verhofstadt is a federalist Doesn't mean anything. EU has always been a compromise between federalists and nationalists. It all depends. Some things are better addressed locally, some nationally and others internationally.
Of course politicians will wrestle over power, be it devolution or central government, central government or international body.
The trick is to divide these things wisely. Best so that they keep each other in check bc you can't trust any of them.

if you can't trust them, then shouldn't we have the power to elect and remove them?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Alf

You won't be laughing when conscription to the EU army starts.

As a matter of interest Alf what for you as a leaver do you see as a benefit because I am struggling and I try to be open minded about it

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Alf

if you can't trust them, then shouldn't we have the power to elect and remove them?

you do
eu parliament is directly elected
eu officials are chosen by national governments which are directly elected

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Cherie

As a matter of interest Alf what for you as a leaver do you see as a benefit because I am struggling and I try to be open minded about it

Who knows what the benifits could be? We can all predict anything, but psychics and Crystal balls are make believe.



The future is what we make it, but we need to make it on our own, because at the moment we're only as prosperous as the other 27 countries we"re shackled to.

You"re only as strong as your weakest member.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

Who knows what the benifits could be? We can all predict anything, but psychics and Crystal balls are make believe.

The future is what we make it, but we need to make it on our own, because at the moment we're only as prosperous as the other 27 countries we"re shackled to.

Mate, I thought Cheries question was fair and reasonable, and I was actually interested in what your answer was going to be, but that answer is illuminating, and unfortunately not in a good way.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Mate, I thought Cheries question was fair and reasonable, and I was actually interested in what your answer was going to be, but that answer is illuminating, and unfortunately not in a good way.

What would you like to hear?

[Twosugars]

why do you say you're strong as the weakest member?
that's not true, there're richer and poorer countries

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alf

What would you like to hear?

I wouldn't like to hear anything, I just wanted your truth, which I have no doubt that you provided.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

why do you say you're strong as the weakest member?
that's not true, there're richer and poorer countries

So then we carry the weaker members, which holds us back and makes us weaker.

[Twosugars]

you contribute to eu, yes, but you get preferential trade access etc which generates wealth

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

you contribute to eu, yes, but you get preferential trade access etc which generates wealth

Wealth for whom?

In my experience, people want to take my money off me, rather than give it to me.